The fact that god knows everything kind of makes you wonder why man needs punishment. God created man knowing full well what was going to happen, he even created adam and eve knowing that he was going to expel them from heaven. Same with the devil. Seems cruel to know that we were going to go becom violent up to that point and then decide to destroy us. If god knows everything, why would he not have created us in a way where these events would not have happened? God himself would not have done this as he seemed displeased with mans actions in the bible, but he made man with the capability of doing such. Its also great to know that we have people rooting for the end of the world too happen, im sure everyones quite pleased with global warming. The bible was put together by one of the oldest civilizations in 1850 b.c.e. as they put their myths and stories to desribe the world into a book. The bible is contradictory of itself and goes against reality.
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- Aug 02, 2007
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Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Aside from the fact that you have no proof, if you say to a mountain, "Move from here to there" will it move? No it won't... A mountain is planted in the ground... more like is part of the ground... so if the mountain moves, the whole tectonic plate moves... If you do that, you make a nice earthquake... and you'll be blamed for probably millions of deaths (exaggerated number)
As i said to u, Matthew 17: 20-21= ''So Jesus said to them, ''Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there.' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.'' '' However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.''
God creates evrything in this world, if He wants the believers to move the mountains, it's up to Him. He creates science too, not u. why r u so arrogant by saying 'science is like this, science is like that'..? u're also like evryone else, who juzt forwarding wut the scientist said with their inventions. 'move from here to there' of course u wont be able to do it bcoz u're not the believers.Quote: Proverbs 3:5= '' Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;''Matthew 10:33= ''But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.''
Proverbs 13:13= ''He who scorns instruction will pay for it,
but he who respects a command is rewarded.''
Proverbs 12:15= ''The way of a fool seems right to him,
but a wise man listens to advice.''
Quote: Yes, trust the lord that brought the flood, trust the lord that kills and is hypocritic enough to say "thou shalt not kill"...
maybe He gives u punishment bcoz u did bad things..? He gives u choices in life, rite?
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A fool and a wise man... the difference...? A fool is considered stupid, are you calling atheists stupid? A wise man is considered smart... a wise man will question what's going on, a wise man also will listen to advice, but doesn't mean the person will follow it...i didnt say anything about atheists! i dont know but, i think the way atheists think about God, verses, n bible r different. bcoz they're a fool. can u try to think in positive way about that verse? a wise man in bible means a man who knows that God is God, not a usual wise man. it's different.
hey dont leave, blackrose, until i -we- make u become a believer! bcoz u're rite here in this forum is bcoz of His plans so we can change ur mind n get better life
X) i think that u -or the other atheists dont believe Him bcoz u cant make things around u to be like wut u want? am i rite?
it'll change X) trust it
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Quote by alexjohnc3"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
-Matthew 10:34-39 (NIV)With this passage, unless you read the whole chapter 10, you are going to misunderstand it. This passage is talking about Jesus instructing the twelve apostles, he is not talking directly to mankind; see from verse 5:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded then, saying, "Go not into the way of....." etc...
As you can see Jesus is talking to the twelve. The versus you have quoted if you read fully into them can be also found in Luke 12:49 (funnily enough, they were written by different people at different times) but the wording may be slightly different. Both those passages are related to disciples of christ, so back then and now, Christ is warning of the cost of discipleship, that people who beleive in him shall be "divided" meaning that people will be against them or oppose them even in families ... Hahaha... isn't that funny, that i am and other Christ believing Christians are being 'opposed' now :DWWJD
- Aug 02, 2007
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Quote by marfish14The fact that god knows everything kind of makes you wonder why man needs punishment. God created man knowing full well what was going to happen, he even created adam and eve knowing that he was going to expel them from heaven. Same with the devil. Seems cruel to know that we were going to go becom violent up to that point and then decide to destroy us. If god knows everything, why would he not have created us in a way where these events would not have happened? God himself would not have done this as he seemed displeased with mans actions in the bible, but he made man with the capability of doing such. Its also great to know that we have people rooting for the end of the world too happen, im sure everyones quite pleased with global warming. The bible was put together by one of the oldest civilizations in 1850 b.c.e. as they put their myths and stories to desribe the world into a book. The bible is contradictory of itself and goes against reality.
First,nobody knows for sure what God knew before he made earth and humans,so you cant put the account of adam and eve in your argument.Second,if God were to interfere with the way life was suppose to be,then that means we wouldnt have free will.God may not smile when he sees people being murdered, but he doesnt blame himself for it since we are the ones that make all the decisions in life.
- Aug 02, 2007
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Quote by marfish14The fact that god knows everything kind of makes you wonder why man needs punishment. God created man knowing full well what was going to happen, he even created adam and eve knowing that he was going to expel them from heaven. Same with the devil. Seems cruel to know that we were going to go becom violent up to that point and then decide to destroy us. If god knows everything, why would he not have created us in a way where these events would not have happened? God himself would not have done this as he seemed displeased with mans actions in the bible, but he made man with the capability of doing such. Its also great to know that we have people rooting for the end of the world too happen, im sure everyones quite pleased with global warming. The bible was put together by one of the oldest civilizations in 1850 b.c.e. as they put their myths and stories to desribe the world into a book. The bible is contradictory of itself and goes against reality.
Adam and Eve were not cast out of heaven, they were cast out of The Garden of Eden, which was on Earth.
One question i will pose to everyone ... If you don't believe in earthly things which God has provided, how can you understand heavenly things which God is associated with? (such as your question on God knowing everything) Is there a point in explaining that God is Almighty and could wipe out the earth, but that he has a plan for each and everyone of us? How can we even question God about his authority? Obviously our thinking is not up to scratch agains God, Even if you say God's thinking is 'foolish' wouldn't that make our thoughts WAY below foolish?
As for myths, i don't think you can say that just now, in my previous posts there are now archaeological evidences as well as living evidence of prophecies and happenings in the bible. Obviously there are evidences which may never be found, but for instance, the contrivursal Flood, there are evidences which show a world wide event and sediment deposits and fossils, which show such an event happened.WWJD
- Aug 02, 2007
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Mishmash, do you mind telling us more about the verses I mentioned in my earlier post?
God seems to be telling Moses in Exodus 31 that he ought to tell everyone that Sabbath is holy and that anyone working on that day "shall surely be put to death." Does this mean that anyone who follows the bible should die if they happen to work on a Sunday? Does it only apply to the "children of Israel?"
I'm just a bit curious since I'm no bible authority. Is there anything in Exodus that makes this verse look better than it does now?
Similarly tell us about the other verse I used that says we ought to kill anyone who tries to convert us. Because curiously a little later in that same chapter as I read it God tells us to go out destroy any city in which the people choose to believe in different gods.
"Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
Is there some other chapter that makes the content in this chapter something other than...I don't know..mass murder?
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Quote by mishmashHow can we even question God about his authority? Obviously our thinking is not up to scratch agains God, Even if you say God's thinking is 'foolish' wouldn't that make our thoughts WAY below foolish?
That's a tiny bit of odd logic.
First we have to assume God exists. Then we have to assume God is smarter than we are. Then we can say that our thoughts are more foolish than God's because God is smarter than we are.
Conversely why don't we just assume that God does not exist. We assume that the people who wrote the bible were more foolish than we are currently. That would make God's thoughts appear foolish to us.
Wouldn't that clarify things a bit?
How can we question God's authority? Because to have blind acceptance of whatever is given to you in a holy book does not make much sense to me. I think if God did exist "he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
Quote: If you don't believe in earthly things which God has provided, how can you understand heavenly things which God is associated with?
Conversely if you don't believe in God's non-existence how can you understand the fallacies behind the bible and religion itself?
Belief. It's a moot point. What matters is evidence.
- Aug 02, 2007
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This would be a desired attitude by the church. The church will not want its followers to question the bible. It has many contradictions in it and many things that are even denied by the real world. The church used to be more powerful than the kings themselves, because people were frightened by the idea of hell and of course wanted to go to heaven. They would even make people pay priests to bring their loved ones out of purgatory and into heaven, it seems everyone went to purgatory in those days. Anyway, I believe the bible to be a way to control people and to hold no truths in the real world. I think that people follow it whole heartedly these days though. Anyway, could you bring up an article for an atifact that was found recently and th article for the world wide flood?
- Aug 02, 2007
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Quote: roseofhell ... you are the most funniest guy! :D Ok, first of all, The bible doesnt say those things literally, they are translated for us so its easy to understand. (Im talking about suspended in space topic...)
And what do mean by 'before the bible was made?' ... There is no bible before the bible 0.o And thats the thing... The authors thoughts were not exactly the same... if you ever get to read the whole bible, everything relates to each other, which is why it is amazing, because different people wrote them over the years, especially since some people were already dead when others were writing other parts of the bible... And the bible isn't just a story book, some books fo the bible are in fact letters to different churches in europe or letters to people
Well let me tell you what the bible says about the 'apocalypse' (not really, its called the rapture) it says that those people that believe Christ died on the Cross will be taken up to heaven in a *twinkling of an eye*, so basically, we disapear if you would like to take it that way ... if that day happens in your lifetime... i hope you think back of this XD
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 06:15pm
I also think people are thinking only about the 'God is a loving God' and forgetting that he too is a 'Just God'. Just like your parents punish you, God punishes people for their wrong doing, otherwise how do we learn? Now you say, mishmash! The punishment is death... especially the flood death... isn't that too harsh? Well, if you have read the whole context of the flood... Before the flood happened the whole world was evil ... Read Genesis 6Starting from 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. ..... 11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
As can see, before the flood happened, the world was filled with wickedness ... it does not say what the wickedness was, but it says 'every imagination' which means all types... such as murder, stealing, fornication, cheating, wars etc. If you figure it out, the whole world would eventually would destroy itself due to its wickedness. And becuase God loved us and those people, and has compassion, those wicked people would not care that what they are donig is wrong, God decided to send the flood to mercifully destroy mankind, rather than see them suffer through their own actions ...
Some people might say, "Why not just change everyone's thoughts so they become good again?" LoL... thats why there is a free will... In actual fact, he gave those people time to change! Before the flood happened, there was one man named Noah, he told the people to repent and realize what they are doing before it was too late ... he warned them for nearly 100 years (i'll check up on that) but no one wanted to change from their wicked ways.
Anyway, why ask about the flood if you don't even believe God exists? LOL Does the fact that im explaining it to you change your mind that there is a God? Or do u just want to argue with me XD
Soo... much... posting... I'm getting a headache reading all these... I never said before the bible was made... where does it say? When I said "before that?" I was referring to the printing press...What's a better way of taking away free will than killing them? Once they're dead, they can't do anything...
I like to call it the apocalypse. XD And for all we know, we're the ones that's going to do it, we're going to go all nuclear ballistic on people and we'll all die and stuff...
Yes, god loves us, it loves us so much, it creates babies that are going to die within a few days because it has some disorders... and it loves us so much that it allowed 6 millions jews die in the holocaust. Tell me, how is that considered loving? Since it is within the past 60 years... How is god loving when you guys state that it's a sin to be homosexual and you god made the man/woman that way? Isn't that a tad screwed up?
Quote: As i said to u, Matthew 17: 20-21= ''So Jesus said to them, ''Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there.' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.'' '' However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.''
God creates evrything in this world, if He wants the believers to move the mountains, it's up to Him. He creates science too, not u. why r u so arrogant by saying 'science is like this, science is like that'..? u're also like evryone else, who juzt forwarding wut the scientist said with their inventions. 'move from here to there' of course u wont be able to do it bcoz u're not the believers.
Why don't you tell the mountain to move then? You're a believe, trust me, it won't move...
Quote:
hey dont leave, blackrose, until i -we- make u become a believer! bcoz u're rite here in this forum is bcoz of His plans so we can change ur mind n get better life
X) i think that u -or the other atheists dont believe Him bcoz u cant make things around u to be like wut u want? am i rite?
it'll change X) trust it
What the hell are you talking about... and my name has no "black" in it... You don't know my life, how would you know what you're talking about? And how are you going to make me change my mind so easily... and I've posted a thread on 'What's the point in converting"... and all you say is to save you stupid fools... tell me how is that going to change my mind? You called a vast majority stupid, you said save with no proof. Tell me, how??(/??)?
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Quote by alexjohnc3"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
-Matthew 10:34-39 (NIV)actually,that verse may sound bad but it isnt.It just means that you should love the person who created and loves,Jesus,more than anything or anyone else.Loving people isnt a problem but when you love something more than God himself than its not a good thing to put God behind anyone.When he says whoever finds his life,im pretty sure that it means that if you find your sinful worldly life,(for a christian anyway,),then he will take it away in some cases and send you home to heaven(in a christian's case since some of us stray from the path of God.)
I still can't agree with Matthew 10:34-39. Sorry. :(
Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.
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- Aug 03, 2007
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ProgramZERO ... read my post on that verse
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:13am
Ah! So many questions! But i don't mind :D ... im sure that we are looking for the truth, i'll try and answer these questions soon, coz im at work right now and its hard to talk to customers and to answer at the same time... my train of thought goes out the window when they start asking about protein powders ...
XDmerged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:28am
oh, and the Bible isn't something to control people with! LoL! ^_^ It's not like its going to zap you! (just playing with you, i know what u mean :D) The Bible is your choice, if you want to believe it or not.I'd like to notify people that Bible believing Christians are different to Roman Catholics/ Anglicans etc... in how they worship... marfish14 mentioned that in previous times the church was used to control people. If i get you correctly, people did not read the bible themselves, but soley relied on a preist to tell them what to do. This is relative to the Roman Catholic Church in this present day, it is very sad, and my heart breaks when i hear of such events. T-T
In reality, those preists made themselves in a 'high position' and just like all things in life, there are corrupt people in this world. (Before you all start going "see?" contradiction! Please think about whether these preist really were ... in defintion 'Christians' which is to beleive Christ died for their sins and believe he can save us)
Which then leads us to the questions before about why didn't God just make the Preists holy and Make people do this and that ...
These are hard questions to answer, just like 'what is the meaning of life?' i'll do some research, but i hope you realize there is not going to be a definate answer to some of these questions just like there is no definate answer to "what is the meaning of life?" (Tho my answer for that is to Glorify God :D)merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 09:40am
Provrbs 3:5.Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6.In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.Here's a little lifting up for all you Christ believers out there :D
WWJD
- Aug 03, 2007
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Matthew 17: 20-21= ''So Jesus said to them, ''Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there.' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.'' '' However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.''
my faith isnt big as the mustard seed, ya know.
maybe it's still 1/100 of it. >.<
the other people, too. they r still making sins, although they're a believer. how can the mountain move, then?nope, i'm juzt testing, hehe. n u were here, rite? XD
nothing is impossible, so.. if i say i can, it will happen, wahaha
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The meaning of life is different from making people "holy"...
Why not lean to what we know, it's... what we know... I mean, by the looks of it, if we lean to things we don't understand, it's like the same thing as leaning to the minority, leaning to the things that can get us killed, also leaning to the discrimination. As many already know (or should know) homosexuality, many don't understand it, that's why they discriminate it... Then, if we're to trust the lord that created everything and created "time" itself, and have him cause the Holocaust... I don't think that's a good idea...
Religion really dominated the ancient times, and as you see, the pope can even exile the king of a country... They held religion so high, why not now? There were many that already didn't believe in god, just that the church called them heretics or whatever. If the Illuminati did exist, they're probably one of the few start of the blossoming of science. Though their understanding of it isn't as great as ours today. The questioning of things really is what made people think about their religion...
I've read stories (real ones and these are for college entrance essays) about people's "turning point" in life. One I've read, the person described how they were at a church and was supposed to pray until they were saved and saw jesus (I don't remember the exact wording so I don't think seeing it was the real word but all I remember is it's supposed to be about jesus or god) The only problem was (there were like 6 people) four people already ran up to the alter and two of them, one of them is the author (note the author was an extremely strong believer in christianity). The author saw the other person stood up obviously with a face of disbelief and just walked up to the alter and the author guy was left there alone. Then after a while, he noticed that it was utterly pointless, so he did the same as the other person. When he got home, all he did was literally go to his room and cry. His parents try to soothe/console his feelings but either way his belief was defeated right at that event.
This was placed in an English Textbook that my English Tutor brings in (I suck at English... okay?) and this was one of the essays we read for grammar and such. These are selected from essays that were sent for college applications. (Note, it's English, so it's not altered in anyway, and this is an actual author's experience) And if you wonder how they get these stuff, if you ever took a Mock SAT or the actual SAT, you'll notice that nice bubble saying "Allowing us to use your material in other things" or something like that...
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Quote by PleaseRecycleMishmash, do you mind telling us more about the verses I mentioned in my earlier post?
God seems to be telling Moses in Exodus 31 that he ought to tell everyone that Sabbath is holy and that anyone working on that day "shall surely be put to death." Does this mean that anyone who follows the bible should die if they happen to work on a Sunday? Does it only apply to the "children of Israel?"
I'm just a bit curious since I'm no bible authority. Is there anything in Exodus that makes this verse look better than it does now?
Similarly tell us about the other verse I used that says we ought to kill anyone who tries to convert us. Because curiously a little later in that same chapter as I read it God tells us to go out destroy any city in which the people choose to believe in different gods.
"Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
Is there some other chapter that makes the content in this chapter something other than...I don't know..mass murder?
edit:
Quote by mishmashHow can we even question God about his authority? Obviously our thinking is not up to scratch agains God, Even if you say God's thinking is 'foolish' wouldn't that make our thoughts WAY below foolish?
That's a tiny bit of odd logic.
First we have to assume God exists. Then we have to assume God is smarter than we are. Then we can say that our thoughts are more foolish than God's because God is smarter than we are.
Conversely why don't we just assume that God does not exist. We assume that the people who wrote the bible were more foolish than we are currently. That would make God's thoughts appear foolish to us.
Wouldn't that clarify things a bit?
How can we question God's authority? Because to have blind acceptance of whatever is given to you in a holy book does not make much sense to me. I think if God did exist "he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
Quote: If you don't believe in earthly things which God has provided, how can you understand heavenly things which God is associated with?
Conversely if you don't believe in God's non-existence how can you understand the fallacies behind the bible and religion itself?
Belief. It's a moot point. What matters is evidence.
I read the first post by you to mishmash and mishmash already told you that God was talking to the disciples,not us. When the disciples are mentioned,it doesnt mean children of israel or america or whatever,only the disciples who seek discipleship.
merged: 08-03-2007 ~ 10:24pm
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: roseofhell ... you are the most funniest guy! :D Ok, first of all, The bible doesnt say those things literally, they are translated for us so its easy to understand. (Im talking about suspended in space topic...)
And what do mean by 'before the bible was made?' ... There is no bible before the bible 0.o And thats the thing... The authors thoughts were not exactly the same... if you ever get to read the whole bible, everything relates to each other, which is why it is amazing, because different people wrote them over the years, especially since some people were already dead when others were writing other parts of the bible... And the bible isn't just a story book, some books fo the bible are in fact letters to different churches in europe or letters to people
Well let me tell you what the bible says about the 'apocalypse' (not really, its called the rapture) it says that those people that believe Christ died on the Cross will be taken up to heaven in a *twinkling of an eye*, so basically, we disapear if you would like to take it that way ... if that day happens in your lifetime... i hope you think back of this XD
merged: 08-02-2007 ~ 06:15pm
I also think people are thinking only about the 'God is a loving God' and forgetting that he too is a 'Just God'. Just like your parents punish you, God punishes people for their wrong doing, otherwise how do we learn? Now you say, mishmash! The punishment is death... especially the flood death... isn't that too harsh? Well, if you have read the whole context of the flood... Before the flood happened the whole world was evil ... Read Genesis 6Starting from 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. ..... 11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
As can see, before the flood happened, the world was filled with wickedness ... it does not say what the wickedness was, but it says 'every imagination' which means all types... such as murder, stealing, fornication, cheating, wars etc. If you figure it out, the whole world would eventually would destroy itself due to its wickedness. And becuase God loved us and those people, and has compassion, those wicked people would not care that what they are donig is wrong, God decided to send the flood to mercifully destroy mankind, rather than see them suffer through their own actions ...
Some people might say, "Why not just change everyone's thoughts so they become good again?" LoL... thats why there is a free will... In actual fact, he gave those people time to change! Before the flood happened, there was one man named Noah, he told the people to repent and realize what they are doing before it was too late ... he warned them for nearly 100 years (i'll check up on that) but no one wanted to change from their wicked ways.
Anyway, why ask about the flood if you don't even believe God exists? LOL Does the fact that im explaining it to you change your mind that there is a God? Or do u just want to argue with me XD
Soo... much... posting... I'm getting a headache reading all these... I never said before the bible was made... where does it say? When I said "before that?" I was referring to the printing press...What's a better way of taking away free will than killing them? Once they're dead, they can't do anything...
I like to call it the apocalypse. XD And for all we know, we're the ones that's going to do it, we're going to go all nuclear ballistic on people and we'll all die and stuff...
Yes, god loves us, it loves us so much, it creates babies that are going to die within a few days because it has some disorders... and it loves us so much that it allowed 6 millions jews die in the holocaust. Tell me, how is that considered loving? Since it is within the past 60 years... How is god loving when you guys state that it's a sin to be homosexual and you god made the man/woman that way? Isn't that a tad screwed up?
Quote: As i said to u, Matthew 17: 20-21= ''So Jesus said to them, ''Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there.' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.'' '' However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.''
God creates evrything in this world, if He wants the believers to move the mountains, it's up to Him. He creates science too, not u. why r u so arrogant by saying 'science is like this, science is like that'..? u're also like evryone else, who juzt forwarding wut the scientist said with their inventions. 'move from here to there' of course u wont be able to do it bcoz u're not the believers.
Why don't you tell the mountain to move then? You're a believe, trust me, it won't move...
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hey dont leave, blackrose, until i -we- make u become a believer! bcoz u're rite here in this forum is bcoz of His plans so we can change ur mind n get better life
X) i think that u -or the other atheists dont believe Him bcoz u cant make things around u to be like wut u want? am i rite?
it'll change X) trust it
What the hell are you talking about... and my name has no "black" in it... You don't know my life, how would you know what you're talking about? And how are you going to make me change my mind so easily... and I've posted a thread on 'What's the point in converting"... and all you say is to save you stupid fools... tell me how is that going to change my mind? You called a vast majority stupid, you said save with no proof. Tell me, how?Pretty much most of the reasons babies die at very young ages are because of reasons of the parents,like they were smoking or drinking while having the baby,or even using some type of drug,good or bad,(science made these pills).Notice how on the good drugs like maybe some type of strong pain reliever will have the warning do not use when pregnant.Most of the cause is what the parents do wrong.Besides,it is said that babies dont really go to hell if the death occurs in such a manor.If im correct,i believe that they go to heaven anyway(i heard this somewhere).If thats true,then theres no need to worry.Either way God loves us and for you to see death and destruction is definitely not God's fault,but our own.
- Aug 03, 2007
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Umm... a good parent that does no drugs, taken nothing to harm the fetus can still end up dead within the first month it was born (maybe longer). Disorders in which was caused naturally, not by poisoning...
How many times do we have to say it... if god made time, that means he knows everything that's going to happen, thus if we were going to do something, it would lead to god's fault because everything we do is already predetermined...
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Quote by kingray100I read the first post by you to mishmash and mishmash already told you that God was talking to the disciples,not us. When the disciples are mentioned,it doesnt mean children of israel or america or whatever,only the disciples who seek discipleship.
Umm....actually no. If you had not noticed, Mishmash was commenting on Matthew 10:34-39 in the New Testament. That was the post made by alexjohnc3. We are two different people. It's a silly mistake so don't worry about getting us mixed up. We probably all sound the same.
I was posting about Exodus and Deuteronomy which are in the Old Testament.
Mishmash has not commented on the chapters Exodus 31 or Deuteronomy 13. Both seem to address the "children of Israel" which I take to mean anyone who shares the covenant with God. The two sections of the Bible seem to be generally about what Moses should tell the people so they know how to to be good in the eyes of God.
However, I'm quite patient in waiting for answers so whenever mishmash or anyone else can get back to me is fine.
Edit: Oh and I'll comment on your "babies go to heaven" remark later. I'm a bit busy now.
- Aug 03, 2007
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Quote by DarkRoseofHellUmm... a good parent that does no drugs, taken nothing to harm the fetus can still end up dead within the first month it was born (maybe longer). Disorders in which was caused naturally, not by poisoning...
How many times do we have to say it... if god made time, that means he knows everything that's going to happen, thus if we were going to do something, it would lead to god's fault because everything we do is already predetermined...
It doesnt matter if God knows something is going to happen,Darkrose.We are still the ones controlling everything and if there will be a terror attack that God sees in the future,its up to those terrorists to do what they feel is right.If you dont want to fail a quiz,study.If you want to see more plants instead of buildings,plant something.If your looking for the purpose of life,read the bible.We all have choices that affect everything around us and to say something of this nature is God's fault is just simply blaming the wise for our mistakes.
merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 08:35am
Quote by PleaseRecycle
Quote by kingray100I read the first post by you to mishmash and mishmash already told you that God was talking to the disciples,not us. When the disciples are mentioned,it doesnt mean children of israel or america or whatever,only the disciples who seek discipleship.
Umm....actually no. If you had not noticed, Mishmash was commenting on Matthew 10:34-39 in the New Testament. That was the post made by alexjohnc3. We are two different people. It's a silly mistake so don't worry about getting us mixed up. We probably all sound the same.
I was posting about Exodus and Deuteronomy which are in the Old Testament.
Mishmash has not commented on the chapters Exodus 31 or Deuteronomy 13. Both seem to address the "children of Israel" which I take to mean anyone who shares the covenant with God. The two sections of the Bible seem to be generally about what Moses should tell the people so they know how to to be good in the eyes of God.
However, I'm quite patient in waiting for answers so whenever mishmash or anyone else can get back to me is fine.
Edit: Oh and I'll comment on your "babies go to heaven" remark later. I'm a bit busy now.
oh ok.and btw,im not saying im 100% sure about the baby thing,but i heard it somewhere and the whole idea of something such as this happening seems to make sense.
- Aug 04, 2007
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It is not simply that God does not help those in need, he created the world with the knowledge that all these catastrophies were going to happen. He made earthquakes, tsunami's, he made the materials that make it possible for humans to make bombs, he gave people the ability to feel sorrow, and hatred. He even kills people loved ones each day, making them feel a hollow space in their chests for the rest of their miserable lives. He created the angel that he knew would become the devil to let him torture people
god did not deem worthy of his presence even though he was the one who created them. made them who they were. Doesnt it say that god loves all man though? It would seem that god isnt as nice as people believe him to be.- Aug 04, 2007
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Quote: It doesnt matter if God knows something is going to happen,Darkrose.We are still the ones controlling everything and if there will be a terror attack that God sees in the future,its up to those terrorists to do what they feel is right.If you dont want to fail a quiz,study.If you want to see more plants instead of buildings,plant something.If your looking for the purpose of life,read the bible.We all have choices that affect everything around us and to say something of this nature is God's fault is just simply blaming the wise for our mistakes.
You don't seem to understand time and omniscient/omnipotence. If god was to create time, that means all of time... that means it created everything that would happen every single second... it created everything that'll happen in the present and future... if it foresaw something, that's cause it's already been set by god.?(/??)?
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wrong! we make all decisions but He knows evrything we do. if He creates evrything that would happen evry single second, wut's the point? He wants to make us believe Him, why He must have plans like those? it's like we're His dolls or sumthing? there were 2 different things.
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- Aug 04, 2007
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Technicaly, if he knows everything thats going to happen, I guess we are his dolls. To see our torment it would seem. Why else would he create small creatures and them torment them like he has? Planned masacures of other humans by the creation of an unstable mind. What is the point of free will if he knows what you are going to do? Denying people their right to heaven even though he created their trates and values. We are mearly his toys, ment for sick amusement. I dont really believe in god but it would seem this way if he were the one to have created this world.
- Aug 04, 2007
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Quote by marfish14It is not simply that God does not help those in need, he created the world with the knowledge that all these catastrophies were going to happen. He made earthquakes, tsunami's, he made the materials that make it possible for humans to make bombs, he gave people the ability to feel sorrow, and hatred. He even kills people loved ones each day, making them feel a hollow space in their chests for the rest of their miserable lives. He created the angel that he knew would become the devil to let him torture people
god did not deem worthy of his presence even though he was the one who created them. made them who they were. Doesnt it say that god loves all man though? It would seem that god isnt as nice as people believe him to be.Why should God help those in need?The people in need are the people who went out to gamble and lost all of their money.Its the gambler's fault.And the people who suffer tsunamis are people who could care less about God.God gets no response from us but whenever we are in trouble,we look to the sky and ask if God can help us out of our own mess.Maybe hes teaching you a lesson,a lesson that you probably hate and will ignore,but a lesson that is suppose to be heard.First,God doesnt kill.Second,If the people were saved,then they're going to a better place called heaven.If you dont believe that,then personally,for you, you arent going anywhere,and once that settles in your mind,then that is true hell.
merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 10:21pm
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: It doesnt matter if God knows something is going to happen,Darkrose.We are still the ones controlling everything and if there will be a terror attack that God sees in the future,its up to those terrorists to do what they feel is right.If you dont want to fail a quiz,study.If you want to see more plants instead of buildings,plant something.If your looking for the purpose of life,read the bible.We all have choices that affect everything around us and to say something of this nature is God's fault is just simply blaming the wise for our mistakes.
You don't seem to understand time and omniscient/omnipotence. If god was to create time, that means all of time... that means it created everything that would happen every single second... it created everything that'll happen in the present and future... if it foresaw something, that's cause it's already been set by god.yes,actually i do understand omnipotence and omniscient characteristics.God may see everything in the future but it doesnt stop us from doing what we want.Think of God's future seeing ability as the regular future;whats going to happen tomorrow,ect.We dont know whats going to happen to us tomorrow until it comes and the same with the ultimate rapture.So what people need to do is to focus on their present life and make not only their life better but other's as well.that way,you can assure yourself a safe tomorrow.
merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 10:25pm
Quote by marfish14Technicaly, if he knows everything thats going to happen, I guess we are his dolls. To see our torment it would seem. Why else would he create small creatures and them torment them like he has? Planned masacures of other humans by the creation of an unstable mind. What is the point of free will if he knows what you are going to do? Denying people their right to heaven even though he created their trates and values. We are mearly his toys, ment for sick amusement. I dont really believe in god but it would seem this way if he were the one to have created this world.
God isnt tormenting anyone,get that through your head.All he did is make the universe and gave his creations free will.When you see everyone doing drugs and killing and ect,why do you blame God?Wow!He sees people killing others!Just because he sees it doesnt mean he caused it.He is just the witness of free willed humans doing their thing.We are not dolls,unless you make yourself one by thinking you are.God doesnt plan death,the people who destroyed our World Trade Center planned death.God cannot intervene from other people's mistakes because we have the control on this world,so if you dont like it,then do something to help the world or yourself.
- Aug 04, 2007
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Quote: Why should God help those in need?The people in need are the people who went out to gamble and lost all of their money.Its the gambler's fault.And the people who suffer tsunamis are people who could care less about God.God gets no response from us but whenever we are in trouble,we look to the sky and ask if God can help us out of our own mess.Maybe hes teaching you a lesson,a lesson that you probably hate and will ignore,but a lesson that is suppose to be heard.First,God doesnt kill.Second,If the people were saved,then they're going to a better place called heaven.If you dont believe that,then personally,for you, you arent going anywhere,and once that settles in your mind,then that is true hell.
First, god does kill aka flood... That's just one of it...
Mind showing me where heaven is and give me a picture of it... Hell is earth, period... okay? (that's me being emo)
Quote: yes,actually i do understand omnipotence and omniscient characteristics.God may see everything in the future but it doesnt stop us from doing what we want.Think of God's future seeing ability as the regular future;whats going to happen tomorrow,ect.We dont know whats going to happen to us tomorrow until it comes and the same with the ultimate rapture.So what people need to do is to focus on their present life and make not only their life better but other's as well.that way,you can assure yourself a safe tomorrow.
There's a difference between feeling and what actually happens... if there is free will, there is no such thing as a future as everything will always be in the present and everything that has gone by will remain in the past. There will be no future. Apparently though, since god is omniscient and created time and such, there is a future...
Quote: God isnt tormenting anyone,get that through your head.All he did is make the universe and gave his creations free will.When you see everyone doing drugs and killing and ect,why do you blame God?Wow!He sees people killing others!Just because he sees it doesnt mean he caused it.He is just the witness of free willed humans doing their thing.We are not dolls,unless you make yourself one by thinking you are.God doesnt plan death,the people who destroyed our World Trade Center planned death.God cannot intervene from other people's mistakes because we have the control on this world,so if you dont like it,then do something to help the world or yourself.
I don't get it... people in Mexico are being tortured because of the living environment they're in. If god created everything, why did they create them in such a horrible living place? There are those that are willing to learn and will learn but they still can't get anywhere because of their life. Do not throw in stereotypes as I have seen you do for the past few posts... especially like the baby disorder one...merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 11:27pm
I forgot something,Quote by kingray100this is an old thread but i will respond anyway since people are answering recently.
God can create things he cant control,impulsation.thats what humans are.
This was said by you about three days ago... now if he's omnipotent/omniscient... he has control over everything... you're being a hypocrite. This was found in the "create a rock thread".?(/??)?
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there r free wills for us, it means we have future, blackrose!
Hmerged: 08-05-2007 ~ 01:45am
He creates evry things, it doesnt mean that He create our evil minds, but it's the devil- Currently watching: Detective Conan
- Aug 04, 2007
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Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: Why should God help those in need?The people in need are the people who went out to gamble and lost all of their money.Its the gambler's fault.And the people who suffer tsunamis are people who could care less about God.God gets no response from us but whenever we are in trouble,we look to the sky and ask if God can help us out of our own mess.Maybe hes teaching you a lesson,a lesson that you probably hate and will ignore,but a lesson that is suppose to be heard.First,God doesnt kill.Second,If the people were saved,then they're going to a better place called heaven.If you dont believe that,then personally,for you, you arent going anywhere,and once that settles in your mind,then that is true hell.
First, god does kill aka flood... That's just one of it...
Mind showing me where heaven is and give me a picture of it... Hell is earth, period... okay? (that's me being emo)
Quote: yes,actually i do understand omnipotence and omniscient characteristics.God may see everything in the future but it doesnt stop us from doing what we want.Think of God's future seeing ability as the regular future;whats going to happen tomorrow,ect.We dont know whats going to happen to us tomorrow until it comes and the same with the ultimate rapture.So what people need to do is to focus on their present life and make not only their life better but other's as well.that way,you can assure yourself a safe tomorrow.
There's a difference between feeling and what actually happens... if there is free will, there is no such thing as a future as everything will always be in the present and everything that has gone by will remain in the past. There will be no future. Apparently though, since god is omniscient and created time and such, there is a future...
Quote: God isnt tormenting anyone,get that through your head.All he did is make the universe and gave his creations free will.When you see everyone doing drugs and killing and ect,why do you blame God?Wow!He sees people killing others!Just because he sees it doesnt mean he caused it.He is just the witness of free willed humans doing their thing.We are not dolls,unless you make yourself one by thinking you are.God doesnt plan death,the people who destroyed our World Trade Center planned death.God cannot intervene from other people's mistakes because we have the control on this world,so if you dont like it,then do something to help the world or yourself.
I don't get it... people in Mexico are being tortured because of the living environment they're in. If god created everything, why did they create them in such a horrible living place? There are those that are willing to learn and will learn but they still can't get anywhere because of their life. Do not throw in stereotypes as I have seen you do for the past few posts... especially like the baby disorder one...merged: 08-04-2007 ~ 11:27pm
I forgot something,Quote by kingray100this is an old thread but i will respond anyway since people are answering recently.
God can create things he cant control,impulsation.thats what humans are.
This was said by you about three days ago... now if he's omnipotent/omniscient... he has control over everything... you're being a hypocrite. This was found in the "create a rock thread".If you think earth is bad,then just to let you know,hell is worse.And God doesnt kill.Did the flood HAVE TO come from God?i dont think so.Ever think that the devil is part of anything?The devil is out there trying desperately to discourage people around the world(looks like its working,i guess).What do you mean there is no future for free willed beings?are you crazy?there is a future for everything,free willed or not,now your just denying the cycle of life.The future is a time that is after the present time and is left untouched until that future takes place.Conclusion,there is a future for anything that lives in this universe.God didnt create the ghettos the mexicans live in.They made their civilization there and made it something that they thought would be a prosperous nation.They made some mistakes in what they did with their environment so now its God's fault?no,it isnt.God didnt put them there,the mexicans did.
Oh and about that omnipotent thing at the end,making free willed organisms is part of being powerful.It was his choice to make us,not the angels,not us,his choice.If I controlled everything around me,i would eventually make something free willed because having everything the way i want would be a little bland.- Aug 04, 2007
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