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From the mind comes the query.
The query goes simply enough.
Suppose that you see by the roadside some ma practicing something so revolting, so vile, so crude, you could (your favorite crime here, please)...
... yet your hand is stayed by the man's reasoning: he is duly certified, by God, to perform the said activity...
... would you...
A. condemn the man; OR
B. let him continue in doing so?
Simple enough.
if he is certified by God himself then to go against the man is surely to go against God ? so I'd leave him to it
Though generally what is being said is whether you will let god perform it's action, or would you go by what you believe is right.
Say you see by the road someone (lets put it as your friend), your friend was being kidnapped and to be tortured by some cruel man who gets pleasure from torturing people and stuff. Would you let it go because god let it, or would you help your friend?
*crawls back to hole*
~Dark Rose~
~Crystal Dream~
Quote: Would you let it go because god let it, or would you help your friend?
of course u must help ur friend bcoz God says we must help other people, but not by doing cruel things to that cruel man, bcoz it means u're juzt the same as him.
Quote by priincess
Quote: Would you let it go because god let it, or would you help your friend?
of course u must help ur friend bcoz God says we must help other people, but not by doing cruel things to that cruel man, bcoz it means u're juzt the same as him.
You contradict yourself. Earlier you stated;
Quote by priincessfight for the man who have faith is the real fight, not by killing to solve a problem. that's stupid, actually, for fighting to survive-what's that? u'd juzt make a larger war.
What's there to fight for? You said it yourself that its stupid to fight for one's own survival much less the survival of anyone else! Why challenge him and make a bigger war?
Quote: of course u must help ur friend bcoz God says we must help other people, but not by doing cruel things to that cruel man, bcoz it means u're juzt the same as him.
And since you seem like an adamant believer of Christianity, and you most likely have no idea what I was
saying.
Would you:
1. Save your friend, going against god's will
or
2. Let it be, because god decided that it was going to happen.
Which?
~Dark Rose~
~Crystal Dream~
Condemn him, naturally. If what he was doing proved vile enough to make me want to inflict serious pain upon him, then no proclamation of 'God's Will' will stop me. What I believe is right isn't always going to be synonymous with what people say 'God demands'.
Quote: What's there to fight for? You said it yourself that its stupid to fight for one's own survival much less the survival of anyone else! Why challenge him and make a bigger war?
u didnt understand what i meant. fight for the man who have faith is to be patient for anything bad happened to him.
Quote: And since you seem like an adamant believer of Christianity, and you most likely have no idea what I was saying.
Would you:
1. Save your friend, going against god's will
or
2. Let it be, because god decided that it was going to happen.Which?
it's not like that, u know, it's the chance for u to help other people right? u've to help ur friend but without doing anything bad, well, call the police is the best way^^
From the mind comes the query.
I'll rephrase this in a way even you, Sherry, would understand:
Let's say I'm 57 years of age, seen circumcising - by using the mouth as a cutting device - a little boy, at some back alley.
Yes, mouth to penis. Caught in the act.
Naturally, you feel revolted. But I tell you that I am a mohel - an approved circumciser and foreskin remover. My authority comes from ancient scripture.
What do you say? Do you go on staring at me, tolerating the entire ghastly procedure? Or do you do something to stop it?
n what's the deal with God anyway .. ? o. 0 stop it if u think that old man have 'motive' behind it
The cultures and practices of different people's around the world would have to come into consideration. What one person finds disgusting, another might find natural. If the person agrees with the culture and practice, they'd be likely to leave the guy to what he was doing. If the person is not accustomed to it, then they'd stop him.
Plain and simple.
Me personally, I'd stop the guy because it goes against my religious beliefs and my morals.
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From the mind comes the query.
Quote by priincessn what's the deal with God anyway .. ? o. 0 stop it if u think that old man have 'motive' behind it
I presume you think: Why do I attack God?
... if only because God - whoever/whatever he/she/it is - has been the reason why millions die, to this very day...
... if only because God - whoever/whatever he/she/it is - has been one of the main reasons why people remain so hidebound and ignorant...
... that is why.
I presume you think: The mohel has no motives behind it!
... what? You'll just stare as the boy loses his foreskin, and probably get some venereal infection in the process!?
... you'll praise him for doing his God-given duty!
... what the fucking hell are you implying here?
Quote: Why do I attack God?
i didnt think that way
Quote: has been the reason why millions die, to this very day...
God makes us learn how to love people like ourselves, live peacefully n avoid bad things, so it must be the man himself who doesnt understand God but learn Bible based from his own interpretation (which He doesnt allow us to) n then take a wrong action. it's simple, if u think it's bad, dont do it. if u were really so close to God, u'd be able to hear the Holy Spirit inside u, that could make u understand, what's bad n what's not
Quote: what? You'll just stare as the boy loses his foreskin, and probably get some venereal infection in the process!?
what is this? God doesnt ask u to do that. if it's
against religion's moral, then, like yothsothgoth said:I'd stop the guy because it goes against my religious beliefs and
my morals.
From the mind comes the query.
Quote: i didnt think that way
Then what?
Quote: God makes us learn how to love people like ourselves, live peacefully n avoid bad things, so it must be the man himself who doesnt understand God but learn Bible based from his own interpretation (which He doesnt allow us to) n then take a wrong action. it's simple, if u think it's bad, dont do it. if u were really so close to God, u'd be able to hear the Holy Spirit inside u, that could make u understand, what's bad n what's not
Go to Genesis 22.
well i never have a will to attack God or think about it
Quote: Go to Genesis 22.
God asked him to do that to tested his faith, of course God wouldnt really asked him to kill
From the mind comes the query.
Quote by priincessGod asked him to do that to tested his faith, of course God wouldnt really asked him to kill
An example would be in order.
Imagine yourself seeing the whole spectacle - Issac, bound crying, wailing, Abraham preparing his knife for the kill; you are just a newcomer, who happens to see it, and does not know that God, eternal jester he is, would intervene:
WOULD YOU BE SO AGHAST AS TO STOP HIM FROM KILLING HIS OWN SON?
Quote: Imagine yourself seeing the whole spectacle - Issac, bound crying, wailing, Abraham preparing his knife for the kill; you are just a newcomer, who happens to see it, and does not know that God, eternal jester he is, would intervene:
WOULD YOU BE SO AGHAST AS TO STOP HIM FROM KILLING HIS OWN SON?
o. O good question n hard to answer. uhmmm.. i dont think Isaac's crying ^.^' i always imagine if
Isaac at that time was just waiting what his father would do, with a calm face. bcoz he knew his father is a good
father.
well, if God wanted His plan to be not interupted by anyone else, of course there would be some kind of feelings that
make me not to stop him. n if u're a believer just like Abraham, u'd know if what he was doing is right.
From the mind comes the query.
Quote by priincess o. O good question n hard to answer. uhmmm.. i dont think Isaac's crying ^.^' i always imagine if Isaac at that time was just waiting what his father would do, with a calm face. bcoz he knew his father is a good father.
well, if God wanted His plan to be not interupted by anyone else, of course there would be some kind of feelings that make me not to stop him. n if u're a believer just like Abraham, u'd know if what he was doing is right.
WHAT?
A guy:
who would marry his stepsister;
who would, so that his own skin would be saved from persecution, passed off his wife as his sister (which has something of a basis in Scripture) when he went to Egypt and Gerar, and let her belong to the harems of their respective rulers;
who would banish his concubine (however reluctanctly) to the wilderness, along with his son by her;
who would circumcise every male member of his household;
- IS A GOOD FATHER?
And do you seriously believe that a child, bound to an altar, facing death, about to be sacrificed to whatever voice his own father claims to hear in his head; would not scream, would not cry, would not beg for his father TO STOP?
i would condemn that man.
Quote by beyondmeasure
... if only because God - whoever/whatever he/she/it is - has been the reason why millions die, to this very day...
... if only because God - whoever/whatever he/she/it is - has been one of the main reasons why people remain so hidebound and ignorant...
does dying in this world matters when you are going to have eternal life in heaven? Well that applies to true believers of God anyway :/
Quote by beyondmeasure
Imagine yourself seeing the whole spectacle - Issac, bound crying, wailing, Abraham preparing his knife for the kill; you are just a newcomer, who happens to see it, and does not know that God, eternal jester he is, would intervene:WOULD YOU BE SO AGHAST AS TO STOP HIM FROM KILLING HIS OWN SON?
Gen 22:8-9 - 'Abraham answered,"God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Issac and laid him on the altar on top of the wood.'
from what you can see here, Abraham told his son beforehand he is going to be a sacrifice. BUT, Isaac didn't run away. AND, Abraham only tied up his son only when he was prepared for the sacrifice.
anyway, yes. I would, even if i am a firm believer of God in those days. Thats why Abraham never told his wife about her
son being a sacrifice :/
but then, its just a test from God in the end. I say quite a cruel test :/
From the mind comes the query.
Quote: does dying in this world matters when you are going to have eternal life in heaven? Well that applies to true believers of God anyway :/
Millions of people have died due to religion - due to theological disagreements over different interpretations of a "holy" book, due to the mutual incompatability (and mutual nonesensical blabbering against science and reason) of their respective religions.
Millions of people have been ignorant of the possibilities beyond the dogma of their religion's infantile and cruel imaginations - the cell, life smaller than what we can see, the universe, the universe...
And - your last statement - who do you think are the true believers of God? Roman Catholics? Anglicans? Mormons? Presbyterians? Muslims? Hindus? WHAT?
Quote: Gen 22:8-9 - 'Abraham answered,"God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Issac and laid him on the altar on top of the wood.'
from what you can see here, Abraham told his son beforehand he is going to be a sacrifice. BUT, Isaac didn't run away. AND, Abraham only tied up his son only when he was prepared for the sacrifice.
anyway, yes. I would, even if i am a firm believer of God in those days. Thats why Abraham never told his wife about her son being a sacrifice :/
but then, its just a test from God in the end. I say quite a cruel test :/
Told? TOLD? If he told Isaac that he's going to cook the holy shit out of Isaac, then he did it in absurdly vague terms, in which Isaac would take what he said as fact: that God would really come down from whatever abode he was staying and provide the lamb for the sacrifice.
Yes. God - eternal jester he is.
From your view, yes, dying for religion is stupid and ignorant. for me its not. Well religious people are not ignorant at all. There are scientists who practice religions after all.
For my last statement, I believe as long as you believe in christianity, and for that matter is a follower is a true believer.
maybe Isaac panicked in the end as you said, i don't know. but about the sacrifice God never intended Isaac to be sacrificed anyway. He had an angel ready to stop that.
From the mind comes the query.
Quote by ttwenFrom your view, yes, dying for religion is stupid and ignorant. for me its not. Well religious people are not ignorant at all. There are scientists who practice religions after all.
For my last statement, I believe as long as you believe in christianity, and for that matter is a follower is a true believer.
maybe Isaac panicked in the end as you said, i don't know. but about the sacrifice God never intended Isaac to be sacrificed anyway. He had an angel ready to stop that.
Dying because of theological disagreements - if Mary had indeed been born and lived as a virgin or not, over the mystery of the Trinity, over which books should be included into the New Testament canon, taking your religion for instance - is sheer stupidity.
Maybe, not now, but eons before this era of ours, theologians used to speak, with obssessive intensity, of the length of angels' wings. Anything against recieved dogma is trashed, and their promulgators persecuted - look at Galileo, for example.
How about the Muslims? The Mormons? Protestants? Animists? Atheists? Agnostics? How about the rest of us?
So God was joking and bullying Abraham at the same time when he aired his proposal to Abraham. Nice. Eternal jester, God is.
Quote by beyondmeasure
Dying because of theological disagreements - if Mary had indeed been born and lived as a virgin or not, over the mystery of the Trinity, over which books should be included into the New Testament canon, taking your religion for instance - is sheer stupidity.
i have no comment on that.
Quote:
Maybe, not now, but eons before this era of ours, theologians used to speak, with obssessive intensity, of the length of angels' wings. Anything against recieved dogma is trashed, and their promulgators persecuted - look at Galileo, for example.
well if you read Galileo's life carefully, his death is more of a political death than death for his belief.
Quote:
How about the Muslims? The Mormons? Protestants? Animists? Atheists? Agnostics? How about the rest of us?
yes. bye bye to you all.
Quote:
So God was joking and bullying Abraham at the same time when he aired his proposal to Abraham. Nice. Eternal jester, God is.
He was testing Abraham's faith.
From the mind comes the query.
Quote: well if you read Galileo's life carefully, his death is more of a political death than death for his belief.
I read.
A putrid combination of dogmatic bullshit and political maneuvering, with the dogma a dominating factor in his eventual house arrest.
Quote: yes. bye bye to you all.
Well, what if the Islam version of heaven - 72 virgins and all - turns out to be right? Then, you'll be joining me in hell, right?
Quote: He was testing Abraham's faith.
Japtheth and his daughter, anyone?
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