Warning: Undefined array key "HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE" in /var/www/minitokyo/www/includes/common.inc.php on line 360 Prove to me that God exists... II. - Minitokyo

Prove to me that God exists... II.

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beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

Quote by kyubichanWell I don't know about God as in, the God of religion... but if you can't prove where the universe came from, then does that not in itself prove that a creator exists? Nothing comes from nothing after all.

I believe that religion was created because people who shared the same faith wanted to be together. Fellowship, so to speak, similar to how we form clubs and, lo and behold, have joined Minitokyo to share our common love for art. Things just got out of hand, as with everything else that has been abused: power, authority, etc.

Criticise religion all you want, but don't mock a person's personal faith. Faith is like any other abstract concept... love, hope, fear- all of those things. To mock a person's faith is to mock their right to believe in what they believe in, just like the way they let you believe in what you believe in. To mock a person's faith is like telling them not to love someone because you think it is so stupid, while you were never in their shoes to know how it felt like to begin with.

Now, an interesting post (at least for me).

No. Our nothing nothing about the origins of the universe proves that we know nothing; it doesn't prove that a god, or gods, created the universe. Supposing that only postpones the inevitable query: where did that deity come from?

By all means, my dear, I was not one of those lucky enough to be born without a religion, as John Stuart Mill was, and hence has suffered under its fangs for many a year. I know what I speak of. And, anyhow, if we dare criticise our leaders and our fellows for their politics, why not criticise their pieties as well, if there be any stupidity to behold? We already do that with the wingnuts - why exclude the mainstream?

kyubichan

kyubichan

Mobile Blackhole

Quote by beyondmeasure
No. Our nothing nothing about the origins of the universe proves that we know nothing; it doesn't prove that a god, or gods, created the universe. Supposing that only postpones the inevitable query: where did that deity come from?

It doesn't disprove that a god, or gods, created the universe either.

I was talking about faith, not religion, when I said that one shouldn't mock someone else's, well- faith. As I already said "Criticize religion all you want".

Because yes!

You don't believe God because can't prove that He exists yet I believe in my God because i simply can't prove that He doesn't exist.

Quote: And you cant prove God exists but you can never disprove of it


Yes, it's impossible to disprove God when believers cling so strongly to the idea that magic and similar supernatural phenomena actually exist. I've got Christians who accept my arguments as both logical and understandable, but then go on and merely counter it with 'it doesn't have to make sense' or 'God could just override science and make it happen'.
To me, that implies two things:
- That proving either belief is entirely impossible.
- That I will never be a Christian, ever.

There are a number of reason why I don't and could never bring myself to believe in such a God, but instead of typing them all out, here are some fun, favorite quotes of mine that express a few of my own thoughts rather nicely:

Quote: I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Quote: Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Quote: The biblical account of Noah's Ark and the Flood is perhaps the most implausible story for fundamentalists to defend. Where, for example, while loading his ark, did Noah find penguins and polar bears in Palestine?

Quote: Somewhere, and I can't find where, I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell? " "No," said the priest, "not if you did not know." "Then why," asked the Eskimo earnestly, "did you tell me?"

Quote: Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

Quote: I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.

Quote: Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.

Quote: You believe in a book which has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd, and primitive stories; and you say that I am the one who is mentally ill?

Quote: If he is infinitely good, what reason should we have to fear him? If he is infinitely wise, why should we have doubts concerning our future? If he knows all, why warn him of our needs and fatigue him with our prayers? If he is everywhere, why erect temples to him?

Oh, and...

Quote: You don't believe God because can't prove that He exists yet I believe in my God because i simply can't prove that He doesn't exist.


Do you have any idea how little sense that makes? X3
Then I suggest that you also believe in tiny green hobbits that play ring-around-a-rosie in a cave on Mars while wearing garments made of solidified grape juice. No no no, don't you try to deny it - you can't prove that they don't exist, so you believe in them, right?
Oh, and Santa - if God and limitless magic exists, then everything Santa does is possible, too. God could just grant him some crazy power that allows him to read each of our minds with telepathy, conjure up each of the presents that we so desire by clicking his fingers together, become invisible and travel at however many million miles an hour to deliver said presents in less than a few hours. Then he could modify everyone's memories to make us think that it was our parents who did it and make parents believe that they did it themselves.
Gotta love that logic, bro. ^_^;;

he doesn't exist .....as simple as that ......

;)

kyubichan

kyubichan

Mobile Blackhole

If people simply do not believe in a God, then why, in the world, do they insist on disproving the Bible?

The Bible isn't the only source of religion.

It sounds more like "a-christianity" rather than "a-theism".

=/

---

And I just love it when people who claim to be atheists delve into ridicule and insults, because it makes them no better or any less crazier than the supposed "religious weirdos" that they are insulting.

Because yes!

Heh, I'm not saying trying to insult anyone or say that Christians (<-- insert other following here where necessary) are wrong or stupid or anything. Each to his own beliefs and opinions, for whatever they're worth.

I have a hatred towards Religion for being what it is in general, which is another thing that doesn't work in favor of whatever non-existant possibility there is/was for my eventually coming to believe in any of it. To me, seeing people so devoted to their various Gods and things etc etc makes me feel like I'm standing by while letting them go off and commit suicide. Yeah, it's their decision and all, but, at least from the way I see it, it's also a very wrong one.

kyubichan

kyubichan

Mobile Blackhole

Quote by Ohara555666Heh, I'm not saying trying to insult anyone or say that Christians (<-- insert other following here where necessary) are wrong or stupid or anything. Each to his own beliefs and opinions, for whatever they're worth.

I have a hatred towards Religion for being what it is in general, which is another thing that doesn't work in favor of whatever non-existant possibility there is/was for my eventually coming to believe in any of it. To me, seeing people so devoted to their various Gods and things etc etc makes me feel like I'm standing by while letting them go off and commit suicide. Yeah, it's their decision and all, but, at least from the way I see it, it's also a very wrong one.

Yup I understand your point, particularly about the commit suicide one.

On the flip side, Christians (in particular) also feel as if people who are 'not saved' (i.e. unbelievers) are like people who are committing 'spiritual' suicide. In real life, I have been repeatedly freaked out by people who come up to me and scream "BE SAVED! UNBELIEVER!" to my face x___x Though I understand that not all religious people are like that.

My message to theists, agnostics and atheists would be the same: If you debate politely and try to present your thoughts across while exuding respect for the views of others, then you're both bound to learn more about each others' side, though that does not necessarily mean that anyone's belief will change. It's just a closer step to understanding them as people, as we all are, not just a person who is represented by his or her belief, whatever it might be.

Because yes!

Quote: On the flip side, Christians (in particular) also feel as if people who are 'not saved' (i.e. unbelievers) are like people who are committing 'spiritual' suicide.


Yeah, I had the same said to me by a Christian at school. We both said that we'd rather believe what we do and end up being completely wrong rather than change beliefs altogether, which leads to yet another dead end. Thus further proving the point that trying to convince people either way is entirely ineffectual.

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

Quote by kyubichanIf people simply do not believe in a God, then why, in the world, do they insist on disproving the Bible?

The Bible isn't the only source of religion.

It sounds more like "a-christianity" rather than "a-theism".

=/

---

And I just love it when people who claim to be atheists delve into ridicule and insults, because it makes them no better or any less crazier than the supposed "religious weirdos" that they are insulting.

I don't know about the others, but me?

I was born into a devout Roman Catholic mother. I mean, devout - she does pilgrimages every Holy Week - so naturally I attack the religion I am most familiar of.

merged: 04-07-2010 ~ 02:28pm

Quote by kyubichan

Quote by beyondmeasure
No. Our nothing nothing about the origins of the universe proves that we know nothing; it doesn't prove that a god, or gods, created the universe. Supposing that only postpones the inevitable query: where did that deity come from?

It doesn't disprove that a god, or gods, created the universe either.

I was talking about faith, not religion, when I said that one shouldn't mock someone else's, well- faith. As I already said "Criticize religion all you want".

Fine. Ye win. On that last.

As for the first - no, it doesn't, but it makes the argument for the existence of a First Cause weaker. At least in my opinion.

merged: 04-07-2010 ~ 02:30pm

Quote by Ohara555666

Quote: On the flip side, Christians (in particular) also feel as if people who are 'not saved' (i.e. unbelievers) are like people who are committing 'spiritual' suicide.


Yeah, I had the same said to me by a Christian at school. We both said that we'd rather believe what we do and end up being completely wrong rather than change beliefs altogether, which leads to yet another dead end. Thus further proving the point that trying to convince people either way is entirely ineffectual.

And now we've people remembering their Lessing, and me belatedly forgetting it.

So fine. And all.

(Succoth.)

lol.... if youre breathing that dosnt mean that god exist, your breathing because your mom and dad "created" you. god dosnt exist, religion and this "god" are just a way path people follow seeking for a "spiritual balance", or its just another path of philosophy (how i prefere to call it)... its the same is for the entire existent religions, theyre just diferent paths of philosophy.

Why quibble over facts when people can interpret (and flat-out deny) evidence in any way they want? It's pointless.

But here's the thing. If you really want to find God, sincerely and truly want to know and discover who He is, all you have to do is humble yourself and call out to Him. And you may not get an answer right then and there - He works on His own time. But as long as your request is pure and you pray earnestly, He will hear it and He will answer you.

I know He's real, and not because of proof from facts and science and what not, though I have found much science that supports the idea of an Intelligent Designer. But its useless to quarrel over that. And I think you've already seen that here.

God is more personal than you might think, and He really does love you (enough to DIE for your sake, which He did, of course). Yes, He loves you, despite (and surely for defense against) the pain the Devil inflicts on us. Yes, If you really sincerely want God, He will come. But usually, not as you expect Him. So keep an open mind, and heart, and listen.

"Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door will be opened to you...."

That's my two cents - it's not much, but I hope it helps someone.
Bless you all,
SH

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

Quote by shanghaihilltopWhy quibble over facts when people can interpret (and flat-out deny) evidence in any way they want? It's pointless.

But here's the thing. If you really want to find God, sincerely and truly want to know and discover who He is, all you have to do is humble yourself and call out to Him. And you may not get an answer right then and there - He works on His own time. But as long as your request is pure and you pray earnestly, He will hear it and He will answer you.

I know He's real, and not because of proof from facts and science and what not, though I have found much science that supports the idea of an Intelligent Designer. But its useless to quarrel over that. And I think you've already seen that here.

God is more personal than you might think, and He really does love you (enough to DIE for your sake, which He did, of course). Yes, He loves you, despite (and surely for defense against) the pain the Devil inflicts on us. Yes, If you really sincerely want God, He will come. But usually, not as you expect Him. So keep an open mind, and heart, and listen.

"Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door will be opened to you...."

That's my two cents - it's not much, but I hope it helps someone.
Bless you all,
SH

The problem with subjective experience (this applies to all forms of prayer and submission and supplication), as I've said before, is its relativity: what may be true for one guy may be false for another, and so on. So, as a rule, I for one don't use subjective experiences to prove anything.

As for the "love" shown by the torture and death of God's son (who is also God himself) so that a whole nation would be persecuted throughout history, in the name of a fictional couple - no, I won't even dare talk about that. Why? It's gross.

Gah, this 'he died for us because he loves us' stuff... bleh, I'm trying to be tolerant, but it frustrates me all the same.
This from www.godisimaginary.com pretty much sums up my thoughts on it:


"Those evil humans down on earth. I hate what they are doing. All this sin...

Since I am all-knowing I know exactly what the humans are doing and I understand exactly why they commit each sin. Since I created the humans in my own image and personally programmed human nature into their brains, I am the direct author of all of this sin. The instant I created them I knew exactly what would happen with every single human being right down to the nanosecond level for all eternity. If I didn't like how it was going to turn out, I could have simply changed them when I created them. And since I am perfect, I know exactly what I am doing. But ignore all that. I hate all these people doing exactly what I perfectly designed them to do and knew they would do from the moment I created them...

So here's what I am going to do. I will artificially inseminate a virgin. She will give birth to an incarnated version of me. The humans will eventually crucify and kill the incarnated me. That will, finally, make me happy. Yes, sending myself down and having the humans crucify me -- that will satisfy me. I feel much better now."

I know it sounds ridiculous, but let me propose to you that everything that's happening in the world is exactly the way he planned it. Yes, even the people sinning. God's logic isn't as simple as ours.

What would be more satisfying - programming a robot to say "I love you", or your one true love that you've pined after for years dumping their significant other in order to be with you? God gave us free will because he wanted us to be able to choose between sin and Him. When someone chooses to love you over all else, that's the truest most beautiful form of love.
Now He gave Satan dominion over sin, and Satan grew in power until no person on earth could possibly resist sin. Knowing this, God sent His Son as the ultimate sacrifice for every sin every committed, so that we might be free from sin's power. And in doing this, he proved His love, but providing us with a way out of Satan's slavery. The price for sin has been paid, but before a sin can be forgiven, a person must ask for forgiveness. So if you do choose God over sin, there's nothing getting in the way of you being with Him, not even Satan. It's as simple as that, if you belief. And thats the first step of an amazing life-long journey.

See, I'm not forcing this on anyone. You don't have to believe this if you don't want. But what I do want is to clarify what all this 'Jesus' stuff is really about, because its so often misrepresented. Yeah, its hard for people to understand, and a lot of people have got it wrong, (It confuses me sometimes too) so I'm just trying to help. THIS is what it means. I hope that helps someone.

Beyond measure, I'm sorry, but I'm not getting what you mean by.... fictional couple and all that. Anyway, 'subjective experience or not, there's nothing stopping anyone from actually trying it if they want. But yes, in the end, everyone's experience will be different. But I believe God is faithful to one who is sincere. I am entitled to my beliefs, and I have more than enough proof of them to satisfy me. My faith is by no means blind. But you can believe what you want, it doesn't bother me. No reason to start a fight.

Keep searching, keep learning, and keep your mind wide open. I hope you find something worth believing. Bless you all.
SH

LonelyAmure

LonelyAmure

???? Friendship & Love

God gave birth to the universe by farting! This came to be known as the "big bang" as scientists named it. Wherever there was nothing but empty space, there is now something!

For me, I just believe in science, because it's the thing so far that makes the most sense in the world. Probably, even ages before the universe was created, there was another universe that was soon going to be blown to bits? Anyway, the universe holds more questions than answers. It is up to us humans to find out those answers.... annnnd our destiny. *dun dun duuuuuun*

( ^_^)o??o(^_^ )Cheers~ my favorite|Twitter|Facebook|Windows Live|Minitokyo|My Wordpress!|USE Tineye-kun!
"The greatest treasures are those invisible to the eye but found by the heart."

Quote: LonelyAmure ????(@uggubs)??@kilacco??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

For me, I believe in God, because it's the thing so far that makes the most sense in the world. But I am not anti-science.
I honestly don't believe The Bible and science are in conflict. When they remove the biases and really delve into science open-mindedly, a lot of scientists come to the same conclusion. Like Lee Strobel. Hes a former atheist who came to God through science and history studies. You can read about his journey one in his books, such as 'The Case for Christ', and many others.
Also, Ben Stein became interested in this prospect when he made the Documentary 'Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed'. Its long but extremely thought provoking. And no, Ben Stein's not a Christian either. Never was. He was just curious about the other side of the argument.
Anybody who's interested in taking a look at things from another point of view should check out some of these publications. Then you can weigh the evidence for yourself. You shouldn't just take one person's word for it. Not even mine. Go forth and explore!

God Bless,
SH

I won't do it because i don't have proves.

?

I don't know what you mean. I think you might have left out a word or something....

prove que n

loutemi2

loutemi2

TAMAYA !! \(^o^)/

You need a proof? -> God sent you this message...

God exists besides whether we believe in Him or not.

Why don't you prove to me that he doesn't and until you do then I think you should maybe rethink your question.

Senseless101

Senseless101

Sense me

You are asking for God's existence... i think the problem here is the question... up to what extent do you mean by "existence"?
if you are asking about his existence well i can say that he did exist... on people's mind and hearts... and in some books. i think you cannot disagree with me that "God" exist in the bible/other scriptures/religious books as a word or a description to a person or whatever it is... i think you should narrow your question a bit since the word "existence" is a big word don't you think?

but personally if you are asking me if god lived/living
well... they say god has the power to create and to destroy... what about us humans we can bulid and create at the same time destroy... can we call ourselves god-like or something...
but anyways my answer to that is yes he exists/lives cuz' that is what my mind and heart telling me

Signature Image[img]http://www.eggcave.com/egg/229520.png[/img]

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