Santa exists?

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Do not click the spoiler if you don't want coal for Christmas you naughty kid.

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So as Christmas is near, I was thinking whether there's some way in which Santa Claus might exist. Like all imaginary things, he probably doesn't exist in the form we imagine him to be(an old fat guy who miraculously goes all over the world through everyone's chimneys to give them gifts etc..)

edit: I think I kinda disproved the above statement by the end of this post. Sorry, I didn't know myself that it'd end like that, I just went on ranting xD

But imaginary things do exist, in the sense that we can discuss them, remember them, etc. And the same thing applies to all abstract things like ideas and thoughts and concepts. What makes us able to do that? They must exist.
So as far as I know, thoughts and all abstract things exist in a brain. According to what I've learned from Youtube videos, neurons in brain transmit data related to some activity/thought/anything.. the more your transmit it, the easier the transfer between related electrons become. That's why the more you practice something, you get better at it. Sometimes this relationship between the set of neurons becomes so strengthened that it's maintained for a lifetime. Ofc this might not explain all mental phenomena like why can memories be triggered even after many years of forgetting them.. there might be more to this, but I think this explanation is plausible enough to believe.

So all abstract things 'exist' in the sense that they're those neurons in the brain between whom transfer is easy.
And there is some part in the brain which assigns meaning to this pattern. This part is probably called soul or consciousness. But what is consciousness exactly?

Quote by wikipediaConsciousness is reality. It is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1][2] It has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.[3] Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.[4] As Max Velmans and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives."[5]

^ all i can make out of this is that consciousness is consciousness, and so and so are synonyms for consciousness and even they're vaguely defined.. so it's just a mysterious thing.
(reads the Cartesian dualism argument of Descartes, my it's so similar to what I had in mind a few days ago(except pineal gland) o.o' but i see that new philosophers laugh it off >.>)

I think it'll be easier if we consider a computer as an analogy.. as computer's inspired from human behaviour only.
A computer stores memory in its registers, very similar to how neurons store information in interconnections. The 'consciousness' of a computer can be considered how it 'interprets' the data. By interpretation, I mean, assigning a meaning/action to the pattern of 1s and 0s (high and low voltage) stored in its memory.
It interprets data according to a program which itself is data. If the data is used to make image, it's which frequency of light is to be emitted with what intensity(RGB); if it's audio file, it produces vibrations at particular frequencies to make sound. But the most interesting interpretation is that of the program memory, which i feel is similar to human brain. Just how the serrations of a key opens a lock, the matching opcode of a command makes the computer do things. It's totally mechanical.. or electronic. So somehow or brain has been hardwired to do some things and feel some things when some things happens.

But this analogy doesn't at all explain what gives us the feeling of being.. and that is because we can't really define that feeling well.. I can just say that I have a consciousness, I can't really be sure if others do. Others can't prove it to me, and neither can I prove it to others. But since we all say the same thing, we believe each other. Oh and don't think you've got much of a free will, a few internet videos about mental diseases is quite disillusioning.. scientists have even made rats behave in a certain way by sending electrical signals.. and i think they Believe that the Want to behave that way and do it.
So maybe we're all just programs.. it might also imply that computers have a conscience just that they don't have any program to express it!
^ this problem is what probably made Descartes make that Cartesian Dualism argument that there is a different dimension for 'thoughts' or whatever causes them. The interaction between the physical world and the thought world occurs in some part of the brain, which is present in animals too, which gives us consciousness.

I think this type of thinking is like pushing the dust under a carpet.. we can't explain consciousness using known law of physics, so we just construct another dimension and then we don't care about that dimension because we can't interact with it.

So I add further that just how certain particles like photon which do not interact with say.. Higg's field which gives particles mass, have no concept of mass, but do exhibit momentum, our consciousness might be similar to this. Maybe the particles which interact with our brain use physical particles to interact with other physical particles. They can interact with the brain particles because of maybe some shared phenomenon just how light shares momentum with particles having mass and how it gets absorbed in a black hole as if it had mass.. similarly, the thought particles exhibit some similar phenomenon to physical particles and that phenomenon is merged in the brain because something in the brain acts like and analogy to my black hole example. And I think the thought particles need not be in a different dimension.. scientists have found a whole lot of mass/energy which we can't interact with, aptly named dark matter/energy because we're in dark about it. Maybe thought particles makes some small or big part of it? (i'm going into fiction now :P) Maybe on birth, some black hole-light and brain-thoughts analogy thing is created and that's where we get consciousness
^ I know it's a very weird and the analogies are confusing.. but it somehow makes sense to me >__<
It's still pushing the reason of consciousness to thought particles instead of other dimension now.. but oh well that's the best I could do. I'm no philosopher or physicist.

So now that that's settled somewhat.. let's now see what makes these abstract concepts and ideas. My answer is 'pattern'. Every abstract thing is a pattern. The 1s and 0s in a chip, the connection of neurons in the brain, the arrangement of pixels on a screen, everything is a pattern.
And the best thing of a pattern is they are abstract, so they can take any shape and still remain the same. And that property of being same is because of ability of consciousness to assign meaning to it. This meaning can be in form of interaction of thought particles, I don't know.

But this thing is very awesome in my opinion. The abstract things, provided that there's a consciousness to interpret them, can pop in and out of existence unlike normal particles! If a pattern(abstract thing) is present, it's born, if it gets distorted, it dies, and is born again if we arrange it back.
If the consciousness interacts with neurons in the brain, it gives the person an identity, when a person dies for some reason or the other, it becomes difficult for the body to sustain those neuron patterns probably. Hence the consciousness tries its best to maintain that pattern. Science says that no cell of your body is the same as that of you 10 years ago! (this also leads to a famous paradox.. that if someone exchanges your body cell by cell with your friend, at what point will you become him? Well I say when you replace the brain cells which the consciousness interprets..) and still we identify ourselves as a continuous entity, why? Because the pattern of the brain cells which is interpreted by the consciousness was maintained! Also, when the consciousness realises that it'll be difficult to sustain the brain cells and thus the pattern, (because of say extreme loss of blood etc. fatal things) the consciousness stops interacting with the brain black hole part and we're said to 'die'. Also, this would imply that if we were to exchange consciousness of two beings, they'd still be exactly the same because the physical patterns interpreted by the consciousness, one or the other, hasn't changed! And hence the interpretation, that is the sense of being, should not change either.
^ yes this is very fiction-like and maybe childish, but this is an anime forum, so I can be childish right?

So anyways, coming back to imaginary things and more importantly, Santa Claus.
Santa Claus, (or any other idea like any fictional being) is a 'pattern', it has very common traits like big belly, red dress, a tendency of extreme generosity, etc. A very complex pattern indeed, but still, a pattern.

And it can be interpreted by consciousness. And if we call the interpretation of the patterns in neurons and the performance of the functions implied by the patterns as 'real' or 'living', I think it's very very reasonable, to call interpretation of the traits of santa claus and then performing the acts which those patterns imply as the 'real' thing.
So that means, every time you see someone wearing a white beard, big belly, santa costume, reindeers, etc. and most importantly, giving gifts; santa exists at that time in that very person who's doing it. And yeah, that'd imply there's not one, but multiple Santas who are as real as you and me, though they exist momentarily for 2 days at the most.. but so do we.. just for a few years. Anyone who gives presents to kids during Christmas is the Santa at that point of time.. and then santa dies but that's a different thing >__<

So yep, Santa Claus is real in my opinion :P
Merry Christmas(in advance) everyone ^^

merged: 12-07-2013 ~ 07:34pm
O.k. So my friend kuchukuTulip said I could have said all that in fewer words... But that ruins the fun of ranting >.< anyways, here's the tl;dr-

We call things alive just because something in our brain interprets the patterns formed in brain by our experiences and acts accordingly. And any abstract thing can be called a pattern in a very broad sense. So if someone interprets the concept of Santa Claus, appearance, kindness etc. And acts accordingly, then we should not hesitate to actually acknowledge Santa Claus's existence as that person. It's no different than us humans.

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IS THERE A SANTA CLAUS?

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear to) handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census)rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west(which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding etc. This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal anoint, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecrafts re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake.The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim)would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion -- If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.

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Yeah the very strict definition of Santa which involves flying with the help of reindeer never existed, or as you said, is dead by now; but the slightly more relaxed definition of a guy who gives gifts does hop in and out of existence at multiple times in multiple places during Christmas(according to what I said in the main post) btw, I didn't know Santa only gives gifts to Christians! I don't remember watching any popular Christmas themed movie or cartoon explicitly mentioning that. I thought he gives gifts for free, or for cookies sometimes :p

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Ok, so I mainly skipped almost everything because it was scientifical reasoning beyond Santa Claus and probably things I already new. Now, I mentioned this in another thread.

Santa Claus is a degenerated version of Saint Nicholas. You can google up pictures and they are basically the same (it even is celebrated in the same month and has the same purpose). Now, if you look at it a bit closer, you can notice that Santa Claus is an American thing. Influence blablabla, same as Lingua Franca (English) basically. Now, the names of both are even quite alike if you think about it. Since Saint Nicholas was a real living person..Santa Claus would have indirectly existed. Like a rumor or story passed on for a long time and it changes...

Second thing is...although, imaginary...with so many people, you can even bring shape to something shapeless. Happened to Santa..you can assume he started to exist as we were all foolish enough to play along and bring shape to it. Now he exists as an icon, an image, a mascot but the fairy tale of Santa has never been true and will not be.

Firstly, Santa does not exist because he is just this rumor bended the wrong way. Secondly, Santa does exist but only because we brought shape to it.


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Darthas

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Before people start trying to prove Santa exists, they should start proving God exists lol - it's basically all the same thing.
Religion takes God seriously and every toddler takes Santa seriously.
Both can't be seen.
Both will never be seen.
But they do have the longest list of achievements.

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Santa Claus, Papai Noel, Viejo Pascuero, Dun Che Lao Ren, Julemanden, Joulupukki, Weihnachtsmann, Mikulas, Babbo Natale, Hoteiosho, Julenissen, Pai Natal, Papa Noel, Mos Craciun, Ded Moroz, Noel Baba, Père Noël, are all names for the same human who has been recognized as a saint, a designation, which of necessity required miracles to have been witnessed. Experiencing a miracle requires faith. If you do not yet believe, the likelihood that you ever may approaches nil. They who have faith require no proof. Greater still, than faith, is love.

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Quote by HooyaahThey who have faith require no proof. Greater still, than faith, is love.

Val already answered the TT.
Also: what requires faith has no proof - simple as that, Santa became questionable about the same time God did and for the same reasons. I'm willing to listen if anyone has an opinion to prove that Santa is as real as any other mythic creature, he started off as an imaginary friend and ballooned only because of america.

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:O Interesting topic. Imo, if someone believes in Santa, Cthulhu, God or anything else, then those are real. Simplistic way of thinking maybe, but that's how the human brain works. Compiler-san wrote that with more detail than me. Anyway, there is a thing that's common in most of us: people doesn't give a damn about proof when it comes to their personal beliefs. Science (or religion) can try and prove with facts, with experiments, or with anything that a person's beliefs are wrong, but if he or she doesn't believe in that (or doesn't want to listen to the "facts") then it's useless, and the beliefs of that person are still real, at least inside his/her mind.. But it's our brain that makes things real after all. We give names to the things we see, and don't see. We like to believe in the most incredible things with little proof, but that's good too. If we didn't do that, we couldn't be able to watch anime and be amazed about the insane things that happen in those series. We couldn't read books, or watch the sky and think there are other intelligent beings out there. We couldn't believe in science or religion, or believe in a fat jolly guy that gives presents and coal, right? So.. there's nothing wrong with believing (or not believing) in those kind of things.

Btw, I don't believe in Santa, but he's cool, I think. He represents mostly good things. Too bad he became a puppet for stores and commerces, and is only used to sell goods around the world. Stores killed the real Santa.. if he ever existed :/

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Quote by Huesin:O Interesting topic. Imo, if someone believes in Santa, Cthulhu, God or anything else, then those are real. Simplistic way of thinking maybe, but that's how the human brain works. Compiler-san wrote that with more detail than me. Anyway, there is a thing that's common in most of us: people doesn't give a damn about proof when it comes to their personal beliefs. Science (or religion) can try and prove with facts, with experiments, or with anything that a person's beliefs are wrong, but if he or she doesn't believe in that (or doesn't want to listen to the "facts") then it's useless, and the beliefs of that person are still real, at least inside his/her mind.. But it's our brain that makes things real after all. We give names to the things we see, and don't see. We like to believe in the most incredible things with little proof, but that's good too. If we didn't do that, we couldn't be able to watch anime and be amazed about the insane things that happen in those series. We couldn't read books, or watch the sky and think there are other intelligent beings out there. We couldn't believe in science or religion, or believe in a fat jolly guy that gives presents and coal, right? So.. there's nothing wrong with believing (or not believing) in those kind of things.

Btw, I don't believe in Santa, but he's cool, I think. He represents mostly good things. Too bad he became a puppet for stores and commerces, and is only used to sell goods around the world. Stores killed the real Santa.. if he ever existed :/

Don't misunderstand, people who grasp that these things are fake is all it requires.

But: You can't defend 1 group of people and completely ignore the other as a result. Suggesting 'it's their belief so it's real to them' basically has you labeling all of them as superstitious, not to mention the intellectual ineptitude it takes to deny things in favor of 'faith'.

Using your example of saying believing in any possible mythic figure such as Leprechauns and a 19 headed turkey-whale that flies under the river makes them real: Why devote yourself to something which derives from absolutely no form of sense? You can believe in what you want to, but always have in your head that it's fake and doesn't exist.

Something is only wrong when people start to forget what the real reasons for something are. As I said in the above post, things that require faith have no proof.

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Cirru

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Oh, Santa exists... he's been eating the cookies and drinking the milk left out every year. Come on, who else would be doing that? =b >.>

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Yes!
Santa exist in our world and he gives gifts every children of whole earth.
But then you think how?
Santa is a ninja who is master in Naruto's Multiple shadow clone jutsu he creates millions of his clone 1 for every city or town and he is also a scientist who createed a Eco-Friendly flying slate and reindeers are just for show and the sound of bells hypnotize us to forget how he looks whenever we saw him

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Quote by Monu-chanYes!
Santa exist in our world and he gives gifts every children of whole earth.
But then you think how?
Santa is a ninja who is master in Naruto's Multiple shadow clone jutsu he creates millions of his clone 1 for every city or town and he is also a scientist who createed a Eco-Friendly flying slate and reindeers are just for show and the sound of bells hypnotize us to forget how he looks whenever we saw him

There is a Santa anime in this. I can feel it. ^_^

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Quote by DarthasDon't misunderstand, people who grasp that these things are fake is all it requires.

Yup, most people know the difference between imaginary and real, you're not the only one who does bro.

Quote by DarthasBut: You can't defend 1 group of people and completely ignore the other as a result. Suggesting 'it's their belief so it's real to them' basically has you labeling all of them as superstitious, not to mention the intellectual ineptitude it takes to deny things in favor of 'faith'.

I wasn't defending any group, I'm against both sides actually. Imo science and religion don't have all the answers, and their "facts" (not all of them of course) are impossible to prove. And both sides become fanatics when they try to defend their points, but I wouldn't call them superstitious, don't put words in my mouth -.- I'd call them human for having faith. Everybody believes in something, no? Religious people, scientists.. that's why they make theories.

Quote by DarthasUsing your example of saying believing in any possible mythic figure such as Leprechauns and a 19 headed turkey-whale that flies under the river makes them real: Why devote yourself to something which derives from absolutely no form of sense? You can believe in what you want to, but always have in your head that it's fake and doesn't exist.

Something is only wrong when people start to forget what the real reasons for something are. As I said in the above post, things that require faith have no proof.

Oh man, if you believe in a 19 headed turkey-whale it's all good xD And yeah, for some people, it doesn't make sense believing in imaginary things, but for some others it does. Having a good imagination is a sign that your brain isn't useless, the brain doesn't function only with reason or data afterall.. Believing in Santa, or other imaginary things is the same as believing in monster turkeys for you maybe, but that doesn't mean you're right and the others are intellectually inept for believing in them.. it means you just lack imagination, or you have a closed mind, or you just don't want to believe in them.. not trying to sound rude or anything >.<

You may have your reasons for denying Santa's existence, and that's ok. But I think most people believe in him, or believed in him when they were kids because their parents told them that he is real, and he became real for them. Santa represents good things for most of us, as I said before. The reason many people likes to believe in the Christmas spirit is because there aren't many good things to believe in nowadays, there aren't many good people who can be and example to follow for the kids out there, so there's nothing wrong with believing in Santa, is it?

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Quote by Huesin

Yup, most people know the difference between imaginary and real, you're not the only one who does bro.

You say that with a lot of certainty, although I'm not the only one who knows the difference. Stating that most, implying majority, really warrants some confirmation. I've yet to see anyone able to prove existence of anything outside their imagination with something remotely believable.

Quote by Huesin
I wasn't defending any group, I'm against both sides actually. Imo science and religion don't have all the answers, and their "facts" (not all of them of course) are impossible to prove. And both sides become fanatics when they try to defend their points, but I wouldn't call them superstitious, don't put words in my mouth -.- I'd call them human for having faith. Everybody believes in something, no? Religious people, scientists.. that's why they make theories.

It was a statement with no direction. Saying simple things like: "you don't go for plastic surgery and wonder why society still thinks you're an ugly ass failure'. Are you going to imply that you went to surgery and are an ugly ass failure because of the way it was phrased?
Both sides are not fanatics depending on what you mean by 'sides' - as I know many who are perfectly capable of our traditional science vs religion argument. The point of the matter that I tried to make was that for every 'theory' you just mentioned - it requires evidence to be proven.
This is the world we live in.
You say religious people don't change?
Neither do people who disprove watching others believe in mythic figures - call it a special way of caring.

Quote by Huesin Oh man, if you believe in a 19 headed turkey-whale it's all good xD And yeah, for some people, it doesn't make sense believing in imaginary things, but for some others it does. Having a good imagination is a sign that your brain isn't useless, the brain doesn't function only with reason or data afterall.. Believing in Santa, or other imaginary things is the same as believing in monster turkeys for you maybe, but that doesn't mean you're right and the others are intellectually inept for believing in them.. it means you just lack imagination, or you have a closed mind, or you just don't want to believe in them.. not trying to sound rude or anything >.<

If closed-mindedness means preferring fact over fiction and believing in 'real' things than 'fake'. Then I rather choose that definition of 'closedminded'. It's much easier to live life deriving knowledge than it does living life on another planet and believing in things that give gratification in the mind.
You are basically saying watching pornography is the same as actually having sex - everyone knows that's not true, everyone knows that some people are capable of making themselves think it's true, the fact remains that it's not.
Same concept here, the sooner you understand that, the sooner you will be able to put that imagination to good use and build the technology of the future or come up with factually proven theories of the future instead of sitting in a building like a mounted floor ornament. lol

Quote by HuesinYou may have your reasons for denying Santa's existence, and that's ok. But I think most people believe in him, or believed in him when they were kids because their parents told them that he is real, and he became real for them. Santa represents good things for most of us, as I said before. The reason many people likes to believe in the Christmas spirit is because there aren't many good things to believe in nowadays, there aren't many good people who can be and example to follow for the kids out there, so there's nothing wrong with believing in Santa, is it?

There's many good things to believe in and the sooner people accept Life as it is, the sooner mankind crawls out of the pitfall it's in. But we all can't have what we want, now can we?
You are treading the lines of a person who takes the middle ground of understanding - even if that's good in respect of others feelings - it does not make their imagination any more real than it is: an imagination.
That answers the TT lol

Case in point.

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imo to this is that people think that something exists that is if they believe in it, such as religious views, cultural beliefs etc, so that is how he can or cannot exist. For me i have no opinion on it if he exists, who knows maybe he does...

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Quote by DarthasYou say that with a lot of certainty, although I'm not the only one who knows the difference. Stating that most, implying majority, really warrants some confirmation. I've yet to see anyone able to prove existence of anything outside their imagination with something remotely believable.

Same as you, implying that the majority of people who believes in imaginary things are dumb or something, you'd have to prove that first, no? Anyway, I'm not here to prove imaginary things are real, I've already said my opinion. For me, Santa exists inside others' minds. Yes, that doesn't make him real for most people, but putting that aside, Santa was a real person, or was based off a real person. Val pointed that out.

Quote by DarthasIt was a statement with no direction. Saying simple things like: "you don't go for plastic surgery and wonder why society still thinks you're an ugly ass failure'. Are you going to imply that you went to surgery and are an ugly ass failure because of the way it was phrased?
Both sides are not fanatics depending on what you mean by 'sides' - as I know many who are perfectly capable of our traditional science vs religion argument. The point of the matter that I tried to make was that for every 'theory' you just mentioned - it requires evidence to be proven.
This is the world we live in.
You say religious people don't change?
Neither do people who disprove watching others believe in mythic figures - call it a special way of caring.

Yeah, I didn't get the ugly example, sorry.
Ummm no, theories require evidence to be accepted by the scientific community, but not all theories have been entirely proven. That's why they're named theories and not facts.
Most people don't change actually. I've seen discussions about religion vs. science in my home, college, everywhere. Instead of listening to the other person point of view, they get more stuck with their way of thinking. Again, I'm not saying all people do this, but you could say many of them don't like to lose, or don't like to see things from others point of view. And about giving evidence, well.. they don't give any because they can't. If there's a person out there that can prove or explain everything that happens in this world we live in, I'd like to meet him/her.

lol you have an interesting way of caring about people btw :P

Quote by DarthasIf closed-mindedness means preferring fact over fiction and believing in 'real' things than 'fake'. Then I rather choose that definition of 'closedminded'. It's much easier to live life deriving knowledge than it does living life on another planet and believing in things that give gratification in the mind.
You are basically saying watching pornography is the same as actually having sex - everyone knows that's not true, everyone knows that some people are capable of making themselves think it's true, the fact remains that it's not.
Same concept here, the sooner you understand that, the sooner you will be able to put that imagination to good use and build the technology of the future or come up with factually proven theories of the future instead of sitting in a building like a mounted floor ornament. lol

closed-minded: Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.. I probably shouldn't use definitions of a dictionary, especially in a language that's not my mother language, but anyway, that's what I meant when I said closed-minded.

And once again, you're saying I said things that I didn't with weird examples xD who is talking about pornography here? lol but sounds fun, let's try using your logic.. gratificating to the mind hmmm? By saying that, you're basically implying that people likes to believe in things because it gives them orgasms :/
You know people don't believe in things for that reason, right? I know you're trying to make a point, but it's not really working, because we're talking about myths here, and about the existence of Santa.. you have a point that Santa is as real as the 19 headed turkey-whale you saw (:P) but you still didn't prove why is wrong to believe in him.

Ornament.. probably you wanted to say "monument", right? lol stop assuming things :P I don't live or work inside a building, I don't do desk work, not always. And about the other part you wrote.. really? :/ ok, if I have to use mi imagination to make something useful, then you should too. Use your reasoning skills for a good cause, build some future technology, don't just break opinions and beliefs :P the sooner you understand not everyone uses their brain like a robot (I've read that somewhere lol) and there are people out there who likes to believe in the imaginary just because they want to, the sooner this discussion will end.

Quote by DarthasThere's many good things to believe in and the sooner people accept Life as it is, the sooner mankind crawls out of the pitfall it's in. But we all can't have what we want, now can we?
You are treading the lines of a person who takes the middle ground of understanding - even if that's good in respect of others feelings - it does not make their imagination any more real than it is: an imagination.
That answers the TT lol

Case in point.

Actually, with so many wars, violence and s%&#$, it's hard to see the good things to believe in. There are some good things ofc, but accepting this life as it is sounds like surrendering to me. But yeah, we can't have what we want because we don't want to lose our precious lives..

Yup, I've always been a person who does that. I think it's because I've read the bible and other religious books (I'm not a religious person tho), and I study at the same time. I do it because others also have some valid points, so I can't reject all their beliefs just because they have a few failures, that would be silly. Imo, doing that is the reason why people gets stuck in their own "circles", and they can't accept there are different people out there.

Anyways, this is the longest post I've ever wrote >.< I didn't mean to sound rude or anything, I'm just clarifying my points of view. And I've heard you like to read long posts, so this is like a Christmas gift for you, with a sexy santa on top :P Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Have fun, Robot bro.

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Quote by Huesin
Same as you, implying that the majority of people who believes in imaginary things are dumb or something, you'd have to prove that first, no?

Too bad I never said that nor did I imply it.
Going off to your own world again?
lol

Quote: Yeah, I didn't get the ugly example, sorry.
Ummm no, theories require evidence to be accepted by the scientific community, but not all theories have been entirely proven. That's why they're named theories and not facts.
Most people don't change actually. I've seen discussions about religion vs. science in my home, college, everywhere. Instead of listening to the other person point of view, they get more stuck with their way of thinking. Again, I'm not saying all people do this, but you could say many of them don't like to lose, or don't like to see things from others point of view. And about giving evidence, well.. they don't give any because they can't. If there's a person out there that can prove or explain everything that happens in this world we live in, I'd like to meet him/her.

lol you have an interesting way of caring about people btw :P

Quote by Darthaspoint of the matter that I tried to make was that for every 'theory' you just mentioned - it requires evidence to be proven


Quote by DarthasIt was a statement with no direction.

Again, I never said anything that I know of which made you type such a pointless paragaph. Of course I know people don't change, and I already know people get stuck with their way of thinking - because I'm the one who starts the discussions about it. In this era, if you have no evidence for something, it doesn't exist.
That's the way it is.

Also:

Quote: Something is only wrong when people start to forget what the real reasons for something are. As I said in the above post, things that require faith have no proof.

Learn to read. lol
This is not about 'explaining everything' - this is about knowing what's real and what isn't. You can state the obvious forever, but none of it is going anywhere here until you grasp what I meant in my initial post near the start of the thread, because all you're doing is missing the point. You quoted text that basically goes with your own example but you're attempting to dart it - which looks kind of . . 'special'.

and yes, I do.

Quote: closed-minded: Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.. I probably shouldn't use definitions of a dictionary, especially in a language that's not my mother language, but anyway, that's what I meant when I said closed-minded.

And once again, you're saying I said things that I didn't with weird examples xD who is talking about pornography here? lol but sounds fun, let's try using your logic.. gratificating to the mind hmmm? By saying that, you're basically implying that people likes to believe in things because it gives them orgasms :/
You know people don't believe in things for that reason, right? I know you're trying to make a point, but it's not really working, because we're talking about myths here, and about the existence of Santa.. you have a point that Santa is as real as the 19 headed turkey-whale you saw (:P) but you still didn't prove why is wrong to believe in him.

Ornament.. probably you wanted to say "monument", right? lol stop assuming things :P I don't live or work inside a building, I don't do desk work, not always. And about the other part you wrote.. really? :/ ok, if I have to use mi imagination to make something useful, then you should too. Use your reasoning skills for a good cause, build some future technology, don't just break opinions and beliefs :P the sooner you understand not everyone uses their brain like a robot (I've read that somewhere lol) and there are people out there who likes to believe in the imaginary just because they want to, the sooner this discussion will end.

There's nothing about anything I said here, that you replied to, that requires any form of rationalization from me. Read aforementioned quote where I told you to understand where I'm driving. You just derailed here entirely when in reality, I was supporting your view in my own way. The fact you're still trying to push this further into your own black hole doesn't make any logical sense lol

'just let people believe what they want to' is what I have been saying from the start.
Remind me, why are you even trying? - saying that I'm assuming doesn't look good on you at all either considering I haven't made 1 assumption this entire thread.
I figured the 1 week gap means you finally understood what I was saying.

Quote: Actually, with so many wars, violence and s%&#$, it's hard to see the good things to believe in. There are some good things ofc, but accepting this life as it is sounds like surrendering to me. But yeah, we can't have what we want because we don't want to lose our precious lives..

Yup, I've always been a person who does that. I think it's because I've read the bible and other religious books (I'm not a religious person tho), and I study at the same time. I do it because others also have some valid points, so I can't reject all their beliefs just because they have a few failures, that would be silly. Imo, doing that is the reason why people gets stuck in their own "circles", and they can't accept there are different people out there.

Anyways, this is the longest post I've ever wrote >.< I didn't mean to sound rude or anything, I'm just clarifying my points of view. And I've heard you like to read long posts, so this is like a Christmas gift for you, with a sexy santa on top :P Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Have fun, Robot bro.

You're clarifying things not relevant to what I was saying at all. I had more or less the same PoV as you do, albeit in different regards. Not saying you wasted your time, but quoting me was pointless since you can't compare your views with mine which produce the same outlook.

That's your Christmas gift, because I don't normally tell anyone if I agree with them or not. lol

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Tsasu

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I didnt read all of the post but i'll asum the tittle says it all and my answer is no, but only the whole fact about the chuby white beard guy i belive in the modern santa the random nice person. Who dosent have a list and that just gives to dose in need.

Huesin

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dead to everyone

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xD this reply is only for Darthas.. I wrote what I wrote because of many reasons:

1) I was drunk.. lol no, I'm just kidding :P Yes, I misunderstood what you said, I admit it. For me your reply sounded like you didn't approve people who believes in imaginary things, or you were disregarding their point of view.
2) I think faith is an important part of being a person, and all people has their own beliefs. I don't think that "special way" of caring about people is good at all, you can't take people's faith from them and think you're doing a good thing, that's just wrong imo.
3) I like to post serious things like this once in a while, usually once a week.. but I don't read other's replies all week lol :P I don't have that much free time.
4) I don't mind about looking good or bad with my posts, I just prefer to be honest when I write, and the only thing I wanted to know is what are your beliefs. And if what you said is true, I guess you and I have the same point of view, kind of.. man, that's a scary Christmas gift :S
5) last, because nothing is a waste of time if you use the experience wisely. Yes, I use quotes a lot, I don't care about the outlook.


And this is for everyone, I hope you guys had a Merry Christmas night and a Happy new year :)

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Welcome to the passive-aggressive section of our wonderful forums here on MT! Brought to you mostly by: Darthas.

Spoiler (show)

Jk Darth Ass, we all love you


Okay, so: I shall start off by saying this (and you'll have to pardon if I say anything that's already been dealt with; no way in heckie am I gonna read all those comments on my phone )
-»truth =/= fact
-»consciousness cannot be defined by modern biology or physics
-»i never believed in Santa

Truth is a matter of perception/perspective, and facts are a matter of evidence. "Reality" is a human invention based on the everyday misunderstanding that the two are the same, coupled with the very animal feeling that time is linear. I shall now proceed to quote my favorite band: "the nature of reality is pure subjective fantasy." A sane person understands that they are indisputably sane, while the madman would like to point out that, no, this person is not sane at all, because each person's idea of sanity is defined under the assumption that their own state of mind is the norm. If we stepped into the madman's mind, we would agree that the sane person is absolutely bonkers. To us, this would be the truth. On a different subject: God. I have never thought of God as being a fact. Facts don't require faith or the belief of humans. And facts, quite frankly, do not give a [insert word I can only put under a spoiler thing] about their existence. Is God a truth? To some people, yes; to others, no. and truth could be a widely accepted delusion. If nobody believed in the truth, would it still be the truth?A Reality is only real to those who are experiencing it, and therefore, Santa Claus is some form of truth. A fact? Not unless you're talking about St. Nicholas. But does he exist? In a way, yes.

Okay, to reply to Il-kun's thoughts on consciousness: why not give it another dimension? It's certainly too big to fit into any of ours! Science can calculate the numbers and equations that are signs of consciousness, but if something learned to imitate those patterns, would science be able to tell the difference? No. Do those patterns create consciousness? My guess is that it's the other way around. Maybe one day we'll be able to explain consciousness without saying, "It's just this thing, you know?" But is it even something that needs to be explained? Not if we have to put it into words. The words of this dimension destroy the meaning of anything as vast as consciousness.

In conclusion (but not really, because this is unrelated), I never believed in Santa because my dad was raised in fear of Santa's elves, who he believed were watching him at all times. Also, my mom is Jewish.

Is this post the result of me reading books by the Dalai Lama and Terry Pratchett at the same time? Probably, yeah. It's also 12:30 am. Clarification need only be requested.

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Quote by LadyTextaholic Okay, to reply to Il-kun's thoughts on consciousness: why not give it another dimension? It's certainly too big to fit into any of ours! Science can calculate the numbers and equations that are signs of consciousness, but if something learned to imitate those patterns, would science be able to tell the difference? No. Do those patterns create consciousness? My guess is that it's the other way around. Maybe one day we'll be able to explain consciousness without saying, "It's just this thing, you know?" But is it even something that needs to be explained? Not if we have to put it into words. The words of this dimension destroy the meaning of anything as vast as consciousness.

finally someone noticed that part of the post ;w;

but.. other dimension? i'm a conscious being.. and I live in only 3 space and one time dimension... right? ...the concept of more than 4 dimensions always confuses me @_@
and in my post i was saying that there are patterns. Even living beings are patterns. 'consciousness' exists independently and 'interprets' those patterns.. and maybe modifies them? (i didn't say patterns create consciousness or vice versa)
and also, just now, I found this: consciousness as a state of matter. Good to know we're not the only ones thinking about explaining consciousness seriously. Words don't destroy anything, words are simply codes(patterns again.. ha) which are used by our consciousness to interpret other things, then why not itself too?

lalagirl211

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Back in my country, i asked my friends is santa claus existed and they pretty much said no
When i ask my auntie if santa exist, she said yes and thats Jesus. (^O^)/

This World Is Wrong . . .

  • Aug 16, 2014

Steffi1690

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Steffi1690

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We do not have the Santa Claus in our culture this is just all from america! We only have the jesus christ! And Santa does not exist!

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Monu-chan

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Monu-chan

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I don't know if my post is Spam but in MT Santa do exist not only one but many Santa!
here the link for more reference XD
http://forum.minitokyo.net/t74101

in MT world everything is possible! :D

As the Light begins to intensify, so does my misery,
and I wonder how it is possible to hurt so much when nothing is wrong.
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