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Women and their Aesthetics

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Darthas

Retired Moderator

Darthas

レキシコン

Generally directed to the more mature half of the community.
Just being realistic.

Aesthetics.

I used the word.
You know who you are.

I was having a discussion with 13 people in Skype the other day about how to best work around a situation, a guy insulted this girls chest size and the conversation derailed for 3 hours on why Men who appreciate large chests are completely useless and insecure. It makes me question why exactly women have so many comments and issues regarding the size of their chest - and how this ended up correlating to men being completely worthless or insecure just because they aren't a fan of the minority. (i.e. < C)

I've had 3 arguments:

Person A says -> I should be reborn with a large chest so I know the pains of having them, and they're nothing enjoyable therefore shouldn't be enjoyed. It's also a pain when bending over to pick things up or exercising.

Person B says -> Small chests = inner pride, large chests = cry for attention.

Person C says -> Secure men appreciate 'smaller' women. Insecure men like certain things larger than their hand.

While I drive in the direction that flat chests/petite bodies make women look younger and large chests/slender bodies make them look more mature or 'easily accepted by almost everyone and can be used to make insecure married men jealous' - there's always some objection somewhere.

Men have universally agreed to how their bodies should be like, as far as anatomy goes anyway.
Women.. not so much.

No, there's no personal preference in this thread - I'd imagine some people have some pretty insightful things to say about this though.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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pandemonium91

Retired Moderator, Tagger

pandemonium91

Discussing something important in a fairly large group.
Someone brings up something against the popular opinion OR that someone interprets as an attack.
Everyone loses their poo. Hilarity ensues. Nothing useful is decided.

Situations like this are interesting: one side agrees with the statement ("liking small breasts isn't manly"), some are against it ("you're a pervert/sexist(?)") and the remaining person is desperately trying to bring the conversation back on topic before throwing their hands up and cursing everyone. But I digress.

Speaking for myself, I don't really care about someone's turn on/offs to the point of arguing with them like it's a matter of life and death. Some guys like women with small breasts, some prefer women with big breasts. There's enough for everyone so why argue, lol. Look on the bright side: if you're attracted to different traits, there'll be a lower risk of going after the same dude/girl. A person confident in themselves won't go for a particular preference because "it's not the other one" i.e. I like small breasts and not the "popular" opinion (large ones) => I'm ultra confident. They'll prefer that because it's what they're attracted to, simple as that.

I once came across a thread with women mentioning they'd gotten breast reduction surgery because their large breasts were a physical inconvenience. So while they may attract attention, it doesn't necessarily mean the person attached to them is actively seeking it. Likewise, having small breasts doesn't mean the lady automatically hates herself or is only pursued by confident men (or the opposite, men who don't think they're "good" enough to attract girls with bigger breasts).
The "shouldn't be enjoyed" part...I don't know, seems like something a person with body image issues would say. Or someone who's trying to deny/suppress their sexual side.

As far as breast wars go, would it be appropriate to compare it to guys obsessing over their penis size? Both are something each gender is insecure about to some degree and both are a source of misconceptions (bigger = better). I've come across arguments that larger breasts may be preferred for biological reasons (the woman seems more fertile) and guys with hairy bodies are seen as more "masculine" (higher levels of testosterone = stronger, more protective, reliable etc.). But the whole small breasts vs large breasts debate is sort of futile, since every side will voice their natural preference and stick to it; if the biological arguments are true, larger breasts may "win" but I don't think this type of attraction is based on reason.

If you can't handle me at my best, then you don't deserve me at my worst!

UsagixKitsune

UsagixKitsune

nsɐƃıxʞıʇsnuǝ

Quote by DarthasMen have universally agreed to how their bodies should be like, as far as anatomy goes anyway.
Women.. not so much.

That's because the traditional life plan of women is to marry a man and leech off his money. What (rich) men do and don't find attractive is very important...

Quote by pandemonium91 I like small breasts and not the "popular" opinion (large ones) => I'm ultra confident.

I think it takes more confidence to pursue what is popular because there is more competition and greater chance of disappointment.

Valuna

Retired Moderator

Valuna

Naughty Artist

Everyone has their own opinion on things. I'll just give my 50 cents on this.

First of all, most women don't undergo breast surgery. So, this means most women get breasts naturally. They can't choose, it is how their bodies are like. Now, it is possible to get enlargements or reductions. Having breasts is a femenine trait (breast cancer patients tend to be devastated) and aside from being that, you draw more attention to men when they are bigger (remember, most women don't choose their size). The attention comes from wrong dressing on where their breasts become very eyecatching, especially to men. Women with a D cup or higher are able to get a breast reduction. Some do it for it to be more comfortable, social insecurity or medical complications.

@ Darthy: I thought most women had breasts from C or smaller? Perhaps many become a C or D after having a child. Not counting that though. Then to think large breasts are biologically seen, back in the old days not that a woman is fertile, but that she can bear children well (breastmilk).

Between women, having larger breasts than C is socially frowned upon. Hence, their insecurity and being unable (most) to accept their breast size. Small doesn't give social complications, perhaps jealousy of not having them big enough?

Whatever it is, when it comes to men...there shouldn't be any preferences. You are missing out on having a good woman only because her breast size doesn't fit your preferences. It literally cuts off half the potential ones. Just like/love her the way she is. Slight changes aren't bad. You can fix them with ease (Social, activities, etc). Biologically...well...if the girl thought she was fine with her physical appearance, the last thing she would want to hear is her lover not liking her chest size.

These beautiful, fragile days are reborn, unfaded
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pandemonium91

Retired Moderator, Tagger

pandemonium91

Quote by UsagixKitsuneI think it takes more confidence to pursue what is popular because there is more competition and greater chance of disappointment.

Depends. Going by popular opinion sounds reasonable, but some pursue popular opinion because they don't have the confidence to admit to preferring something that goes against the majority. Personally, I wouldn't care whether the rich man I'm pursuing had big boobs or not, I'd love him all the same.

Quote by ValunaBetween women, having larger breasts than C is socially frowned upon.

Depends on the crowd. Some cultures put heavy emphasis on the childbearing abilities of their women, which sometimes translates to being more plump, having larger breasts and wider hips etc. Maybe I've worded the "fertility" thing wrong, I meant to talk about the woman's (perceived) ability to bear and take care of children more easily (and, possibly, more frequently too).
Anecdote: most C-cup girls I've talked to about this have expressed they wouldn't mind having larger breasts. They aren't uncomfortable with their own bodies, but wouldn't mind having bigger breasts either. Some women are more concerned with the size of their breasts, some shun bigger/smaller-breasted girls for their size, and some just don't care and are at peace with the way their body turned out.

If you can't handle me at my best, then you don't deserve me at my worst!

Darthas

Retired Moderator

Darthas

レキシコン

Quote by pandemonium91

Larger penis is clearly the superior choice at least where sex is concerned - can't say much if you don't want to have sex at all though. Larger doesn't mean it has to be the length of your arm span, from what I know anything above a certain measurement should be titled 'good enough that it doesn't matter all that much' - this is a parallel to the view that women who have 'inbetween sizes' are good enough and it wouldn't be that big of an issue so therefore can be put up with.

Putting up with things is personal preference though, but judging by the last post you made, even personal preferences have something on the side, in this case you can accept being a certain size but having it larger wouldn't be much of a detriment either. This can correlate or be used as reason that technically being larger is something people actually want but that doesn't mean it interferes with their daily life.

You should know how much a large stick affects the male ego lol - that's where men part with women on the fussing of how big the breasts are though. Since like you mentioned, there's always the select few women who don't like their large chest but I never heard of a guy who went to surgery to get his lamppost reduced to a needle.
It's just not something you'd publish in the paper - for a couple of reasons I'd imagine.

Though I agree that it's biological structuring that might have contributed to how people think subconsciously - if that's the case then why haven't women decided on anything yet? As far as I'm concerned you basically should just be living with what you have, this is excluding outside scorn, but it seems many women who support the theory of genetics being the only thing that matter have these problems with outside views on them.

Trailing down though, if things like this can't be agreed on or hypothetically solved - there's practically no solution to other problems people might have.

Quote by Usagixkitsune


Rich is subjective and too diverse to have a real marker - I'd ask more but first I need which marker you're referring to as rich lol

Quote by Valuna


True, they can't choose - they enjoy making problems out of it though or perhaps didn't address it enough that others get backlashes when talking about it, and I'm excluding the minority few who can be asked a question about it without needing to put on the sour face.

Anything below a C seems to be the cause of the problems in many women especially when they live past the age of 20. I'm not well-versed in how women think their bodies are or what's socially accepted as appropriate - but I do know that men and women technically have very few differences about things - they only do if you ask for specifics (Women and chest size, men and stick size) but they both generally foretell the same things.

The root understanding I'm trying to derive is: The cause of this entire insecurity is based of not being looked at by the opposite sex? Lack of attention? or is it because women fear for their future as <C means having a lack of fertility?
or is this another western problem where the media controls it?

I know it can be a little bit of everything - but there's usually a cause factor by now, if not a cause factor then a basic understanding on what it derives from. (Eg. At age 20, you first start to worry because you might have fertility issues -> Age 27, you continue worrying because the media capitalizes on them being a certain size ====== The 2nd reason is a 'fuel onto the fire' situation, whereas cause factor is the 1st reason)

Sooner this gets solved, the sooner advice could be more stable for everyone.
I also was the one who got yelled at the hardest during that conversation lol

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
[SIG design by Valuna]
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Valuna

Retired Moderator

Valuna

Naughty Artist

Social media is a big factor as they control the "perfect" image. Especially on women, they are "told" to dress in certain ways so they get along with current trends, which tends not to be fashionable, but rather slutty and it doesn't compliment them physically, but sexually (video clips, dancing, dressing, make-up, in other words, ideal woman). Basically, like Darthy mentioned there is a line of where you are in the green. When it's that, you shouldn't have complaints about the size and start loving your own body more for how it's like rather than trying to adjust yourself to a social ideal image of a woman or a man. Something people don't really do (being happy with yourself rather than seeking happiness in others). They need others to recognize them, as a person. Their entire sense of existence is based on it.

Then to think that being entirely flat chested or having a size of D cup or larger is something that is "different". My apologies for only saying the larger part before, it is the same for A cups. B/C are entirely fine. With A cup women tend to feel less femenine. With D, it tends to be too much to the point of being uncomfortable a lot of the time (I don't think women that want large breasts consider the fact that they move a lot more, difficult to dress well without them looking massive or being slutty, but then again...with silicon they become anti-gravity so it doesnt really matter anymore).

All in all, the cause it what we are told to in order to be accepted. Average is good, more than average tends to be good but cuts on both sides, has some positives aswell as negatives. Less than average tends to down their confidence a lot because it is not socially accepted. Social media has a lot of influence of you and those around you. I'm sure all your parents care about is you being able to be healthy and happy with yourself. So...blame the media. Also, fashio stylists can make anyone with any size look good. I do think someone's dress style has a factor in accepting your chest size.

These beautiful, fragile days are reborn, unfaded
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Alenas

Retired Moderator

Alenas

Gone.

I'll just say something in regards to media and the image of an 'ideal woman' they're trying to push - most of those images of women in magazines are Photoshopped. Which means that nobody ever has such perfect, flawless skin, big eyes, pouty lips, long legs, skinny waist etc. The same goes for breasts. They can be digitally enlarged, as well.

And I suppose, since we're on a manga/anime site, the anime/manga industry doesn't help much either by constantly pushing images and series with women/girls who rarely have anything less than a D cup. Why they feel they have to do that, I still don't know. Whether it's the preconceived image of 'fertility' someone had mentioned here or they're just following the western idea of a 'perfect, busty woman' (which would be more logical since, by some standard, Asian women were never really that well endowed, with some exceptions, of course) that has been dominant in most comics before manga even became popular. It's interesting to see that in some anime shows, girls with 'flat chest' have also been made fun of or ridiculed, only adding to the question of why is 'bigger', necessarily also better.

In relation to the first post here, I'm not sure what does liking big breasts have to do with the insecurity of men. I mean, it's the last thing they should be insecure about. I kind of see it like this - breasts for women are like penises for men - both things are something that more or less define us sexually (I won't go into transgender issues since we're not talking about that here) and something that is always brought to light when it comes to sexuality, romance and with it all - attention we get from the opposite (or same) sex. So, if someone insults or comments negatively on something like that, people usually react in a bad way precisely because it's something so important on a sexual and/or personal level. Dunno, just my own two cents.

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UsagixKitsune

UsagixKitsune

nsɐƃıxʞıʇsnuǝ

Quote by DarthasRich is subjective and too diverse to have a real marker - I'd ask more but first I need which marker you're referring to as rich lol

Lets say the weight of one's opinions on the matter grows with wealth. It is also inversely proportional to the wealth of the woman involved. If you push a pram around town in the middle of the day with a fag in your mouth and a tracksuit on your back then that guy who empties your mum's bin probably counts as "rich".

pandemonium91

Retired Moderator, Tagger

pandemonium91

I'd put the glass of wine down for this thread, just in case. I'm already having too much fun.

While porn may promote the idea that "bigger is better", having your cervix hammered isn't exactly pleasant. And neither is feeling like you gave birth to a melon afterwards. All in good measure (no pun intended). I fear for the girls who read hentai, those sticks are huge.
I'm not well-versed on the percentage of impressively endowed guys out there, but I'd wager a guess that they're not as many that find their sticks (nice euphemism there) an actual impediment to their daily business. There was an interesting thread about a guy with two sticks on Reddit a few days ago, so that's that. And the social media ate it all up (no pun intended), it took only 1-2 hours for it to be pasted over the major news sites, lol.

Quote by DarthasTrailing down though, if things like this can't be agreed on or hypothetically solved - there's practically no solution to other problems people might have.

Sure there is. Guys, enjoy whatever size breasts you like. Girls, choose the sticks you want. Bam, problem solved.

Quote by ValunaSocial media is a big factor as they control the "perfect" image. Especially on women, they are "told" to dress in certain ways so they get along with current trends, which tends not to be fashionable, but rather slutty and it doesn't compliment them physically, but sexually (video clips, dancing, dressing, make-up, in other words, ideal woman)

There's a whole discussion to be had about the image promoted in the media. Dove had a campaign a few years ago (dunno if they've discontinued it by now) where they promoted more "natural" women: less-to-no makeup, plumper bodies, smaller breasts etc. Putting aside the fact that the campaign was revealed to be heavily fabricated (pictures were significantly retouched prior to being made public), it's an initiative to promote being happy with your own body. It'd be interesting to know how much these images affect the general adult public (I'm not considering teens because they're still developing their views, an adult is more likely to have a general idea of who they are - of course, there are always exceptions).

I once read a testimonial about Katy Perry (who's known for her sexual image) being quite tame in her personal/real life, with the sexual public persona being just that - a mask she wears to make money. So just because a public figure promotes a certain opinion or lifestyle, it doesn't necessarily mean they also believe in it. If it's what rakes in the dough, then by all means she's going to ride that lipstick-shaped cannon like she means it.
Honestly, the only music genre I've seen that consistently features big-breasted women is hip-hop/rap, and that's because it's pretty much become a staple in it along with bragging how rich you are and how you're going to steal everyone's girlfriends. Indie rock...nah (we do have a naked dude, though). Pop...not so much, aside from Katy Perry (discussed above). Miley Cyrus...no big boobs. I'm not up to date on who's rocking the charts now, so I may be wrong though.

Women with larger breasts (D+) also face the problem of not finding as many clothes that fit well i.e. aren't breath-stopping corsets.
And if I may include a personal opinion: silicone implants on old women look terrifying, especially when said women are on the thin side.

Edit: ninja'd by 3 people while writing this - new personal record!

Quote by AlenasI'm not sure what does liking big breasts have to do with the insecurity of men. I mean, it's the last thing they should be insecure about.

Boom, headshot! (pun not intended)

Spoiler (show)

http://i.imgur.com/Yuu8dMg.gif

If you can't handle me at my best, then you don't deserve me at my worst!

akiranyo

akiranyo

Astraea Kisaragi

The size of your breasts isn't important - the usual excuse of girls who have them small. Doubt that anybody from the more endowed ones, want them to have smaller - we are talking here about girls, and not old women. Personally I doubt that they are trying to push on us that "big breasts are more sexy". If I look all those so-called topmodels, all with height like a beanpole, skinny, with fake smiles and with breasts which are C cups even at best means, I have the feeling that they are trying to globalize (average is best they want to say) even that. Maybe is just me, but I never found any of them appealing and could find anytime more tempting ones in the nameless crowd. Tastes are different, I always thought that women should have curves and if they get even a little chubby by the process, so be it. Is proven that those women have it also easier by giving birth.

Of course anime is different, also by the fact that anime was always what the japanese aren't IRL, is more like their dream what they want be. Though fanservice in anime was always present in certain extent, not many noticed it with the cartoonish art of 90's. Now is the opposite, sexy 2D girls can make a blockbuster even from a mediocre series. So is really now more fanservice or is just more noticable as before? Quite the question, isn't it?

Since I write satires, my whole life is one huge inspiration. (Horatius)
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pandemonium91

Retired Moderator, Tagger

pandemonium91

Quote by akiranyoThe size of your breasts isn't important - the usual excuse of girls who have them small. Doubt that anybody from the more endowed ones, want them to have smaller - we are talking here about girls, and not old women.

Depends on what you relate this to. The size of a girl's breasts isn't important if she's a shoe model, but it is important when taking the measurements for a tailored formal dress, for example. It's not necessarily an "excuse"; believe it or not, there are small-breasted women out there that don't mind it. And there's a big leap between "girls" and "old women", lol.

Quote by akiranyotopmodels, all with height like a beanpole, skinny, with fake smiles and with breasts which are C cups even at best means

The models you're referring to are so skinny because they need to draw attention to the clothes, not themselves. They basically fulfill the part of walking mannequins. It also depends on the type of clothes they model: most runway models are very thin, while some lingerie models are more curvy (but still thin in comparison to the normal weight). People have been up in arms and going "but what about the impressionable children?" for ages, and while there's been some progress in regards to the shapes of models (i.e. allowing more curvy women for certain clothes), very thin models are still the norm for runway fashion ~90% of the time.

Quote by akiranyoNow is the opposite, sexy 2D girls can make a blockbuster even from a mediocre series.

Too true.

If you can't handle me at my best, then you don't deserve me at my worst!

fireflywishes

Retired Moderator, Linguistics

fireflywishes

Calgon, take me away~!

@aki: I have a number of well-endowed friends, who hate their big breasts. The extra weight caused one girl to have back problems, and be diagnosed with scoliosis in middle school. She finally got a reduction and is now a happy c-cup with no back pain or other related health issues.

I have to also add to Alenas' quip about porn. The rise of the porn industry led to a lot of womens' insecurities ( at this point I wish I could link a few vids that go more in depth on the matter..but y'know.... Gotta protect the kids... ^_~)

But the whole idea of women going bare "down there" was first introduced in porn. And because it became such a booming industry the idea stuck and became normalized as "sexy women are smooth everywhere". Waxing and shaving actually leave small cuts and abraisions which can lead to infection. And i don't think anyone would be aroused by THAT. ;)

And despite knowing that now, it is difficult to change something that has been so ingrained in my mind. As children we are bombarded by images of "ideal beauty" (*coughDisney*cough--- or anime).

... I feel i'm slightly deviating from the original post. Gonna end here and get back to de-stressing from the week. XD

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Pawsting in this thread without reading any of the posts behind.
Child bearing hips are best aesthetics, it dawned on me today when I saw a hungry skeleton girl, an underclassman. "How will a baby come out of there? Will it even fit, tho?" If this is your first time hearing something like this, yes, women have cabbage with them every time and they spawn children from there.
On the other end there are women who I can't imagine giving birth either. It's all fine with some curves, but there's probably a maximal number of them, like in the ocean, if it starts waving too heavily it might be a bad idea to swim. Continuing that thought with another stupid innuendo, it's hard to connect if the man has to go all over mountains to reach the cabbage.
Best aesthetic is the golden middle path between these two edges.

UsagixKitsune

UsagixKitsune

nsɐƃıxʞıʇsnuǝ

Quote by fireflywishesBut the whole idea of women going bare "down there" was first introduced in porn.

In case you are interested, which you probably aren't :D, at some point in Japan's history there was a poorly construed law which prohibited the display of public hair.
http://www.japan-101.com/culture/culture_hentai.htm

fireflywishes

Retired Moderator, Linguistics

fireflywishes

Calgon, take me away~!

Quote by UsagixKitsune

Quote by fireflywishesBut the whole idea of women going bare "down there" was first introduced in porn.

In case you are interested, which you probably aren't :D, at some point in Japan's history there was a poorly construed law which prohibited the display of public hair.
http://www.japan-101.com/culture/culture_hentai.htm

Ah, should have been more specific-- was talking about in the US. But that's an interesting fact for Japanese history. Thanks for sharing UxK. :)

(This is what I get for posting in the wee hours of the day)

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