Friendly reminder from your friendly neighbour

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Huesin

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Huesin

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This thread has been created for the sole purpose of reminding people that:

1) Minitokyo is an anime and manga oriented site.

2) Due to a series of unfortunate posts, and even though this section of the forums is called "Off-topic Discussions", the staff has decided that any inflamatory / insulting message is not gonna be tolerated anymore. If a post or a thread of that kind is made, it will be deleted immediately, and the OP will be warned and/or muted. The internet is full of political arguments and silly fights afterall. MT doesn't need any of those.

3) Everything else is permitted, so have fun~


I guess this thread doesn't sound as friendly as it was planned, but anyway, suggestions and comments are welcome.

_____


I'm gonna edit my comment and answer some questions at the same time.

Angelxxuan said: Can we state the exact line so we know what is and isn't political?
Uberdog said: Could we please have an "MT Guidelines" Handbook made and downloadable in PDF format so the "Lines in the sand " can be understood clearly and without any errors?

Sadly, we can't. Writing a guide like that would take too much time, and I don't have enough free time, sorry. Also, I don't wanna sound rude, but most of the people who got involved in those political fights are already grown ups, so it's better if they stopped playing dumb. Everybody knows the difference between an inflamatory post, a troll post, and a normal opinion. The ToS has clear rules about harassing other members. To be honest, I don't think this new rule is a muzzle rule regarding politics or anything like that. My intentions are clear, I want people to stop arguing in a site that has nothing to do with political agendas. Discussing about politics is fine as long as it is made in a respectful manner.


But I guess if you guys want more clear lines, I'll add some extra rules.

1) Don't bring political discussion to threads that have nothing to do with them. Discussing about political anime is allowed though. Good luck in finding one of those animes though, lol.

2) Don't go Insulting or demeaning other people/other countries for their political/religious views. Thanks for pointing that out, Hooyah. Remember that this rule is included in the ToS, so people can get banned for doing such things, so I advice people to be more careful from now on.

3) It's ok to have an opinion, but it's not ok to shove it into everyone else's throats. The internet is full of liberal vs. conservative threads. Don't turn MT into a Youtube comment section, please.

4) The staff doesn't care how much some people are gonna whine about this rule or other rules that are already being written. You think MT is becoming a safe space? Good, because MT has always been one. Read the Terms of Service, if you don't trust my words. MT has always been a family friendly site.

5) As I said before, everything else is permitted, spam, random games, everything. Just stop fighting like little kids, please.


Thanks for the comments and the feedback, by the way.

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angelxxuan

angelxxuan

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questions:

first off, can we state the "exact line" so we know what is and isn't political? I mean, anything can be political in a way and one post can lead to another, like recently pertaining to a food product, and a political statement afterward, does that mean the first person is going to get into trouble, guilty by association sort of thing. in a way, the post pertaining to favorite foods, belief in ghosts, because I believe a food item to be the best and someone else doesn't like it, is that to be considered political? not trying to be mean or anything, just trying to find that line in the sand that was drawn, so, it'll help myself and others on this site.

second: since this post exists now, can we please have quotes post back since we got those who can monitor it, I mean it was sort of dealt with before it was closed in the first place, could we have if it's monitored and we behave?

granted there's no perfection here, but, due to this post and my first question, perhaps that can help us open up more posts, since this sort of confusion can cause some folks to run and hide in fear of saying something that might offend someone regardless of what that might be. someone is always going to be offended by something regardless, if we are aware of said line we'll know where to take it from there. not trying to sound mean, vindictive or bad, just trying to help the fellow posters out there, so they can have a post to be directed back to and help them while I'm helping myself sort of thing. thanks for making the post and starting the rules, hopefully the FAQ can be updated to reflect this as well, once more details in the guidelines can be given, so we can have a link to link back to and help the folks further. finally, thanks in advance.

BuBbLeS!


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Hooyaah

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I believe that what our benevolent moderator means is that rhetoric that is of a political nature (to be deemed by staff) then it should be avoided. Examples: criticizing or making fun of the manner in which another country, rulers, political leaders, governments, etc. function or conduct their affairs or governance, make or enforce (or do not enforce) laws, or shaming others for their political, even religious beliefs is to be hence off limits.

I suggest that a "political debate group" be opened so that such discussions could be held there, rather than the ensuing conflagration of discussion erupt again in public forums.

Monu-chan

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Hoo-san answered correctly and faaaar better than I could've given, so Thanks!

I also want to state here, we, staff members are not being Dictators here. MT's purpose from the start was to make a fun community where severe argument won't arise. If there was any need of political discussion here, we would've a forum section for that already, but there isn't. So it's obvious that MT is not made for that.

I would've loved to create a group like that, but unfortunately we can't create groups anymore. And I think it is for the best to not have such groups. If someone wants to talk about politics or anything that might offend third party (if not second) then please, we have PM feature, use it, keep it civil. Otherwise internet is full of website whose sole purpose is helping you to speak your mind. Say it Facebook, Twitter etc. Those sites are made for that, and I'm sure there are sites specifically made for having civil (or heated abusive) talk about politics.

I don't want to hide this, MT's owner don't give a crap (sorry for language) to it anymore. It's just us, members who need to keep site alive (or abandon). If we have arguments and beef with each other, then unfortunately we'll have to say farewell to MT.
We're all here to have some good time, and enjoy the peculiar art of japan and people who enjoy it. So why don't we do this? Life is too short to argue man, let's have some fun!


And as for Quotes thread, let's wait a bit more, if things will improve, I'll personally PM you, Bunny-san to create new one.

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UberDog

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Could we please have an "MT Guidelines" Handbook made and downloadable in PDF format so the "Lines in the sand " can be understood clearly and without any errors. I am not trying to be snarky or anything I just would like some real clarification as almost anything can be considered "political" in nature.

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Monu-chan

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@Uber-san this

Quote by HooyaahI believe that what our benevolent moderator means is that rhetoric that is of a political nature (to be deemed by staff) then it should be avoided. Examples: criticizing or making fun of the manner in which another country, rulers, political leaders, governments, etc. function or conduct their affairs or governance, make or enforce (or do not enforce) laws, or shaming others for their political, even religious beliefs is to be hence off limits.


I think this is clear enough, right?
Not trying to be cocky arse here but I do think, we all are adult enough to understand what Hue bro meant here as "politics".

As the Light begins to intensify, so does my misery,
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angelxxuan

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out of curiosity a new question has come to mind:

what about the anime that contains political stuff, are we permitted to post about such a thing or is that off the table as well? such anime which come to mind are, to start but a tip of the iceberg: Code Geass, any Gundam, C, etc. are we permitted to share political views of this vs that, or, can we only discuss about the anime itself and not the political things?

just a curious question is all. thanks in advance.

BuBbLeS!


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UberDog

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^ This is just what I was talking about. How the heck do we know what is and is not acceptable when members of a Star Chamber are deciding where the line is.

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Monu-chan

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Sure why not? But please try to keep things as civil as possible. However, in such threads, passive aggression will not be tolerated and they'll end up closing and thrown in thrash section.

merged: 05-05-2017 ~ 09:33pm
Oh and it is best to keep it on anime world as much as possible.

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I think this sounds fair.
On one hand it would be nice to have a section for political discussion. And anyone would agree that it would require more moderation than normal threads.
But on the other hand I don't think we have the enough staff for all that extra work. And I think it's fair to restrict discourse rather than not having means to have good discourse.
So I think the line as Hoo said is drawn by staff. If they think it's political they'll delete it or something and we'll just accept it as long as they can justify its classification as a deletable sensitive political content.

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HatedAngel

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I ran some of these potential guidelines by Hue and he seems to approve of em so-

1- neutrality
If you absolutely have to for some reason mention politics it's got to be with a neutral narrative. So basically it shouldn't read like a persuasive essay, and shouldn't contain your political opinions.

2- Avoid Inflammatory Topics
All in all this whole politics ban is a thing because politics are very... flammable when placed in conversation. It doesn't take much for one comment to explode into a even bigger thing. So topics that directly talk about;
-Race
-Religion (outside of the Religion and Science forum. Main Guide-line for that that I can think of is be respectful)
-Sex / Gender
-Sexuality

I'm not a moderator so I'm not this all powerful voice of authority. Sooo feel free to add or subtract from this.


EDIT;
Also as for the whole political debate style group I do kinda like the idea but it requires a few things due to the very flamable nature of politics; there would need to be methods of keeping it from causing a massive issue. Anybody who was around when RP groups were a big thing knows that drama doesn't just stay in the group, it can and will explode and leak pretty much every where else. Perhaps it would need a referee to keep the debatees civil ?

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Huesin

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I think they're good. I'ma add some things to my first comment, but not today tho, I'm just too lazy cuz it's sunday, and I came back from work... I'll write some new stuff tomorrow~ x)

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HatedAngel

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The top comment has been edited and honestly i agree to all of it

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angelxxuan

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as "family friendly" is a contradiction in terms, the above update is pretty much just a regurgitated reminder from ToS and previous staff folks. there will be a line somewhere in the sand regarding some stuff, like pointed out, people can get upset over the aspect of RP, trust me, I saw that and it was frightening. so, perhaps, we should look into the idea of making updates regarding RP, not to do it, because people can take it the wrong way and go on defense? back in the day there were a lot of personal attacks regarding rp going the wrong way. previous staff decided to forbid it, due to the upsetting nature, perhaps future staff should look into the matter again. as I've seen in some posts already things are going to get out of hand regarding a rp format, so, just thought I'd bring that into consideration as well, for the new staff to chew over as they say. it's odd what people get offended by regarding words on a screen. as for politics in anime, trust me, I've seen my fair share of anime and it's in a lot of anime, sometimes in ways people would never suspect, and, other times, the whole entire anime is based on political views. it shall be complicated to discuss and leave out real life terms, due to programming and news outlets, but, since it's rarely discussed anyway (maybe seen), then we'll cross that bridge when we come to it as they say.

as with all comments freely, I can still assume it's safe to play around in guestbook, that was never mentioned, but it's still one of the ToS statements and unmentioned rules from past staff, the guestbook adventures. regardless, people will adapt, I'm certain once the first warning is administered people will either disappear in fear or fall in line like a good solider. by the third warning before mute comes about, I'd imagine it'd be a ghost town with those who follow the rules.

BuBbLeS!


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Huesin

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I mentioned politics because I've seen some MT members having heated arguments about that subject. I've seen them fight and insult each other. The staff is not gonna tolerate that anymore. Let me try to clarify my first comment, again:

It's still safe to play in the OT forums, it's still safe to play in other people's GBs (with the member's consent ofc), it's still safe to RP. It's not ok to harass other people. It's not ok to insult people for no reason. Use your damn common sense, people.

I can't be more clear than that, Angelxxuan. Sorry, but I think you're trying to play victim right now, or trying to defend your friend's strange comments. It's funny to see how you compare the actual staff with the old staff, it's like you're trying to lowkey call us dictators. This staff and the old staff have nothing in common, imo.

The ToS rules are hella old, I didn't regurgitate any of those. I just thought it was a good time to REMIND people about the rules. I'm tired of all the BS that's been happening lately. I've been a big part of this forum in the past, I used to do a lot of spam. it makes me mad to see it turn into a hate comment section.

'People are gonna get scared bcuz of the rules, MT is gonna become a ghost town once the third warning is administered'. Well, you're free to imagine that. I don't think it's gonna happen though. Besides, you guys are the ones who asked for clear guidelines. It's like you guys never read the ToS. Seriously, if some people get scared of those old rules and run away from MT it's gonna be their own fault, really. Why are those members leaving, is it because they can't talk crap anymore? Is that too offensive for them? Is it too much work to be polite with each other? :/

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HatedAngel

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I kinda wrote this at the same time as Hue so if things get repeated I apologize.

Quote by angelxxuanas "family friendly" is a contradiction in terms, the above update is pretty much just a regurgitated reminder from ToS and previous staff folks.

Family friendly really isn't that much of contradiction though? The main point is that this is a website that people of all ages can enjoy. That's the bottom line here. And if the above sounds like a regurgitated reminder of the TOS that's what it is. The TOS has been violated so it has to be brought up again. Also all he was really trying to do with that is say that this "new" rule really isn't new at all.

Quote by angelxxuan there will be a line somewhere in the sand regarding some stuff,

The problem here with that is it's hard to think of a guide that isn't either painfully obvious or completely strict because it has to think of every possible scenario and shut it down. See my above example because really what I wrote then was way more strict than just "don't be a jerk to other people" and that was just two rules and incomplete.

Otherwise it's just painfully obvious because really it's just summed up with "Don't be a jerk and say offensive things to people on the internet"
That's the heart of the issue and the reason this whole thread was even created.

Quote by angelxxuanlike pointed out, people can get upset over the aspect of RP, trust me, I saw that and it was frightening. so, perhaps, we should look into the idea of making updates regarding RP, not to do it, because people can take it the wrong way and go on defense? back in the day there were a lot of personal attacks regarding rp going the wrong way. previous staff decided to forbid it, due to the upsetting nature, perhaps future staff should look into the matter again. as I've seen in some posts already things are going to get out of hand regarding a rp format, so, just thought I'd bring that into consideration as well, for the new staff to chew over as they say.


RP isn't banned, if it was the two leading RP groups I'm an admin of would have been deleted. But no they still exist and if there was demand for it I could single handily bring em back (Single handily because I'm the only active mod on both of them). Anyway this is off topic so I'll just leave it at that and get back on topic.

Quote by angelxxuan It's odd what people get offended by regarding words on a screen.

Ok I'm going to reply to this and try to be as nice as I possibly can.
The problem with that statement is that I've heard it before so many times and the scenario/reason is always the same.
People who say that typically say it because they just got yelled at or called out for saying something genuinely offensive and just want to play it off like it wasn't. Or maybe perhaps didn't understand what was so wrong about what they said/ did and have no intention of understanding why.

99.9% of the time people get offended for a genuine reason, just because you don't understand why they're offended doesn't mean its not genuine.
Also just because it's words on a screen doesn't mean it's not going to be offensive. These people have to deal with offensive comments in their real life and they shouldn't have to deal with it online just because somebody else thinks that because its "words on a screen" that it's not as big of a deal.

Bottom line it's not that hard to not insult people. People like to say it is but honestly it's really not.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here but there's really no other way I can address this.

Quote by angelxxuan as for politics in anime, trust me, I've seen my fair share of anime and it's in a lot of anime, sometimes in ways people would never suspect, and, other times, the whole entire anime is based on political views. it shall be complicated to discuss and leave out real life terms, due to programming and news outlets, but, since it's rarely discussed anyway (maybe seen), then we'll cross that bridge when we come to it as they say.

Something I'm noticing just now is that the topic of politics isn't the problem (I blame Hue's bad wording of "Political arguments" in the list of things that won't be tolerated)
Like I've said above (many many times) the issue is offensive comments. What he meant by "political arguments" was the act of arguing about politics, or presenting a political argument (in other words a persuasive post that attempts to persuade another member to a different political opinion) and not the act of talking about politics

Feel free to write about politics, just don't start fights.


Quote by angelxxuan as with all comments freely, I can still assume it's safe to play around in guestbook, that was never mentioned, but it's still one of the ToS statements and unmentioned rules from past staff, the guestbook adventures.

Hue addressed this before I did so Imma just leave it alone since I have nothing new to add.

Quote by angelxxuan regardless, people will adapt, I'm certain once the first warning is administered people will either disappear in fear or fall in line like a good solider. by the third warning before mute comes about, I'd imagine it'd be a ghost town with those who follow the rules.

You're concerned, I get that. But here's the thing; the only people who will even be affected by this are people who have no business on a family friendly site.
Like I said/ implied above; this rule is mainly targeting people who are going on threads and posting offensive stuff. Politics isn't the issue here and I understand why you'd think that due to the poor wording above.
If you say something that insults other members on a regular basis then you're causing a problem that should be dealt with.

So, TLDR;

Politics aren't banned, but I understand why people would think that due to Hue's wording.
Just don't insult other people and you'll be golden.

My hobbies include penguins, bad jokes, and long walks to the fridge.
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Hooyaah

Hooyaah

The Doctor Is In

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http://i.imgur.com/d2I8FMC.jpg

^ Here are some additional general guidelines of what is strongly discouraged, if any among you need further explanation.

Miss-Mess

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Good! cause most people who talk about politics, know nothing about it.

DontTellDad

DontTellDad

just looking at the pictures

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im confused so forgive me if i post something horrible cuz i try not to be that way... really

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