mmmm In a reply to a post , SWPIGWANG stated that many things are theories...
...But that the only thing that has truely been proven is the self.
...I'm not sure that's right.
Certainly, the idiom "I think and therefore I am" ...Rene Descartes...
applies. ...But are we what we think we are? Are our bodies even really here?
My.... ....I don't think I'll truely, deeply ask a such questions, as it is
an assumption I have made. (And probably must make.
)
So.... ...Tell me. Do you exist? How do you know that you exist? ....Do you
exist as you perceive yourself? Are you sure? Is that how everyone else
perceives you? Is this all really the Matrix?!
;) Have fun folks. The quote provided is out of context, and is a part of a
much larger conversation.
Quote: There is only something to
prevent the distortion of the education system for the subverting agenda of a
minority. The fact is that if we go by deep skepticism, only the existence of
the self is proven, and education is pointless because nothing is proven. If one
wants to be fair and not confuse and decieve children, than one should have
every textbook covered with "unproven" stickers. To do otherwise is
hypocrisy.
Read some philosophy books on episomology (perferablely kant) rather than asking
equally ignorant people that populate most forums.
Quote: ...I'm not sure that's right
Depends on your definition of "proof", but lets just say according to
hume, there ain't anything.
Quote: I don't think I'll truely,
deeply ask a such questions, as it is an assumption I have made. (And probably
must make.
[creationist]BUT IT IS ONLY A theory, therefore
we don't have to care[/creationist] You've got no proof and you expect
us to believe you? Because the religion of zaku worship states that lamer
posters don't exist in reality, Archer79 obvious is an object of pure
imagination.
---------------
knowledge is relative to piroi. Without piroi, there is no knowledge, however
piroi can not be proven. One can either accept piori or complete ignorance.
quoting from my most favorite anime ever (Serial Experiments Lain) :
"i exist because there are at least one person in this world who believes
in my existence"
it means if there's no one in this world believes that you exist, then you don't
exist at all, even if you try to convince yourself that you are
exist...
even God wouldn't exist if there's no one in this world believe in God's
existence...
not being religious here, tho
the point is, your existence is rather a fact of how others perceive you... and
you can't decide your own existence, but indeed you can make others notice your
existence, and that's all us humans do to survive...
Hey, forums are for opinions and mine is that if I feel, then I exist; I can
only proove MY existance to myself. I wouldn't be so certain as to say I can
proove the existance of others though. Kind of is the opposite of the Lain
philosophy lol. If one goes too deeply into this sort of thing one has to start
asking even more general questions like "what is my definition of
'proof'?" I don't think this question has such a definite answer that you
can call anyone "wrong." I find that one can find truth in a lot of
things that people say about general and deep questions if they have an open
mind.
Quote by KorganoSquoting from my most
favorite anime ever (Serial Experiments Lain) :
"i exist because there are at least one person in this world who believes
in my existence"
it means if there's no one in this world believes that you exist, then you don't
exist at all, even if you try to convince yourself that you are exist...
even God wouldn't exist if there's no one in this world believe in God's
existence...
not being religious here, tho
the point is, your existence is rather a fact of how others perceive you... and
you can't decide your own existence, but indeed you can make others notice your
existence, and that's all us humans do to survive...
Korgie-kyun here makes the best arguement. So I'm gonna go with him.
To reiterate:: Someone or something only exists because other people or other
things believe that they exist.
LOL I do see your post. Or at least I think I do. I think my eyes are showing
me this but I'm not certain I can be sure. Certainly, it is something I'm
reasonably confident in, but can I be sure?!
The difference between who you are and who you think you are is larger than
anything else.
But remember this - "What you do in life, echos in eternity" -
me.
"How do you prove that you exist?
Maybe we don't." - Vivi, ffix
I don't think we're living in the matrix.
Have you seen the 2nd and 3rd movie?
Then you'd know that there's nothin' like a Matrix.
I think Kachie-chan's right.
Pain's the one and only answer to your question!
C U
Assumption 1: The number of communities
of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (N) in the Milky Way is given by the Drake formula.
Humans multiply exponentially. Since they are our only model for intelligent
life (and a lousy one at that), we can assume that ETs will reproduce like
rabbits too. With time as a variable: Assumption 2: Total population of
intelligent life in the Universe is approaching Infinity as Time
progresses
A theory proposed in 1948 known as "the Steady State Theory" coupled
with Georges Lemaitre's Big Bang Theory would suggest a universe that will
expand forever. Assumption 3: The Universe's volume is
approaching infinity as Time progresses.
With all those assumptions in mind, let us consider the Universe's population
per unit volume, given by the equation, N=Population/Volume, and let Time approach Infinity.
But since both Population(Infinity)=Infinity and
Volume(Infinity)=Infinity
the Universe's population per unit volume as t approaches Infinity =
Infinity/Infinity = does not exist
Seriously, our existence is something that formal knowledge like Math or Logic
cannot adequately explain.
While some may argue that we do exist, we forget that out minds have the
capability to make up stuff like unicorns and bottomless pits. Thus, what we
think are possible scenarios (us part of some Matrix-like system or just
hologram images; including cases when we think that we really exist), may just
be what they are: silly, made-up and pointless.
Ah, using words whose meanings we don't really know has always been a problem.
But mind you, we brought this problem to ourselves. The word "exist"
was originally meant to refer to a concept and now we are questioning what this
concept is. I say that one exists when he/she believes that she does. I think
it's one of the strongest yet most unstable assumptions one could make because
no one could contend with nor defend that claim.
There's a philosopher who doubted everything but the one thing he could not
doubt was himself doubting.
If I think that god is a perfect jelly dounut that exists which I hold in my
hand, it obviously exists!
*eats dounut, and is happy now that anything can be wished to existence by
thinking about it*(thinks about hentai doujinshi)
Quote: There's a philosopher who
doubted everything but the one thing he could not doubt was himself
doubting.
Wrong, because if one doubts logic, than one can doubt and not doubt at the same
time. (double think is not allowed under a logical fame work, but if you throw
logic out....people do throw logic out in real life as well)
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you presume that knowledge, logic and thought "exists", than the
rest of existence is quesi-trivial via relation. The actual properties of
existence might be unknown and perhaps unknowable, but it is irrevelent to a
proof of existence, only a proof of mechanism.
Quote by KorganoSquoting from my most
favorite anime ever (Serial Experiments Lain) :
"i exist because there are at least one person in this world who
believes in my existence"
it means if there's no one in this world believes that you exist, then
you don't exist at all, even if you try to convince yourself that you
are exist...
but then, how do you know those who believe in you exits? there has to be
someone who think they exist and since it cant be you (because that would lead
to a infinite loop) a 3rd being has to exist and believe in them, and so on...
therefore, someone will be the last one "existing" but since there's
no one else that beliebes in that being, it cannot exist, thus none of us
exists
I'll rarher go with Descartes' theorem (I think and therefore I am) which
literally transaltes to "i think, then i exist" which is an already
proven logical truth (p -> q ; P then Q) that theorem is true as long as P
is not false... and since i could think all this pointless chatter, i beliebe i
exist
In reference to the first post, according to my philosophy professor (man he was
great) the actual quote is "I am thinking, therefore I am". So since
i am thinking currently i exist in some form or another, but I'm pretty sure the
rest of you are just wierd little voices in my head ;-).
mmmm In a reply to a post , SWPIGWANG stated that many things are theories... ...But that the only thing that has truely been proven is the self.
...I'm not sure that's right.
Certainly, the idiom "I think and therefore I am" ...Rene Descartes... applies. ...But are we what we think we are? Are our bodies even really here? My.... ....I don't think I'll truely, deeply ask a such questions, as it is an assumption I have made. (And probably must make.
)
So.... ...Tell me. Do you exist? How do you know that you exist? ....Do you exist as you perceive yourself? Are you sure? Is that how everyone else perceives you? Is this all really the Matrix?!
;) Have fun folks. The quote provided is out of context, and is a part of a much larger conversation.
Read some philosophy books on episomology (perferablely kant) rather than asking equally ignorant people that populate most forums.
Depends on your definition of "proof", but lets just say according to hume, there ain't anything.
[creationist]BUT IT IS ONLY A theory, therefore we don't have to care[/creationist] You've got no proof and you expect us to believe you? Because the religion of zaku worship states that lamer posters don't exist in reality, Archer79 obvious is an object of pure imagination.
---------------
knowledge is relative to piroi. Without piroi, there is no knowledge, however piroi can not be proven. One can either accept piori or complete ignorance.
quoting from my most favorite anime ever (Serial Experiments Lain) :
"i exist because there are at least one person in this world who believes in my existence"
it means if there's no one in this world believes that you exist, then you don't exist at all, even if you try to convince yourself that you are exist...
even God wouldn't exist if there's no one in this world believe in God's existence...
not being religious here, tho
the point is, your existence is rather a fact of how others perceive you... and you can't decide your own existence, but indeed you can make others notice your existence, and that's all us humans do to survive...
Hey, forums are for opinions and mine is that if I feel, then I exist; I can only proove MY existance to myself. I wouldn't be so certain as to say I can proove the existance of others though. Kind of is the opposite of the Lain philosophy lol. If one goes too deeply into this sort of thing one has to start asking even more general questions like "what is my definition of 'proof'?" I don't think this question has such a definite answer that you can call anyone "wrong." I find that one can find truth in a lot of things that people say about general and deep questions if they have an open mind.
Here is a short answer... Is?
Korgie-kyun here makes the best arguement. So I'm gonna go with him.
To reiterate:: Someone or something only exists because other people or other things believe that they exist.
There are good points stated there too. Maybe I should just give up and live, lol. Too much deep thought can't be too healthy.
You see my post? Good. That means you exist. Close thread.
Um.. *pinches self*..
Ow! XO Ii-ee..
I exist, I exist.. *sniff*..
LOL I do see your post. Or at least I think I do. I think my eyes are showing me this but I'm not certain I can be sure. Certainly, it is something I'm reasonably confident in, but can I be sure?!
The difference between who you are and who you think you are is larger than anything else.
But remember this - "What you do in life, echos in eternity" - me.
"How do you prove that you exist?
Maybe we don't." - Vivi, ffix
I don't think we're living in the matrix.
Have you seen the 2nd and 3rd movie?
Then you'd know that there's nothin' like a Matrix.
I think Kachie-chan's right.
Pain's the one and only answer to your question!
C U
Assumption 1: The number of communities of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (N) in the Milky Way is given by the Drake formula.
Humans multiply exponentially. Since they are our only model for intelligent life (and a lousy one at that), we can assume that ETs will reproduce like rabbits too. With time as a variable:
Assumption 2: Total population of intelligent life in the Universe is approaching Infinity as Time progresses
A theory proposed in 1948 known as "the Steady State Theory" coupled with Georges Lemaitre's Big Bang Theory would suggest a universe that will expand forever.
Assumption 3: The Universe's volume is approaching infinity as Time progresses.
With all those assumptions in mind, let us consider the Universe's population per unit volume, given by the equation, N=Population/Volume, and let Time approach Infinity.
But since both Population(Infinity)=Infinity and Volume(Infinity)=Infinity
the Universe's population per unit volume as t approaches Infinity = Infinity/Infinity = does not exist
Therefore, we do not exist.
Wicked explanation, ain't it?
I do not exist I'm all in your mind.
The equation works, doesn't it?
Seriously, our existence is something that formal knowledge like Math or Logic cannot adequately explain.
While some may argue that we do exist, we forget that out minds have the capability to make up stuff like unicorns and bottomless pits. Thus, what we think are possible scenarios (us part of some Matrix-like system or just hologram images; including cases when we think that we really exist), may just be what they are: silly, made-up and pointless.
I believe we exist, but what does it MEAN to exist?
Ah, using words whose meanings we don't really know has always been a problem.
But mind you, we brought this problem to ourselves. The word "exist" was originally meant to refer to a concept and now we are questioning what this concept is. I say that one exists when he/she believes that she does. I think it's one of the strongest yet most unstable assumptions one could make because no one could contend with nor defend that claim.
There's a philosopher who doubted everything but the one thing he could not doubt was himself doubting.
If I think that god is a perfect jelly dounut that exists which I hold in my hand, it obviously exists!
*eats dounut, and is happy now that anything can be wished to existence by
thinking about it*(thinks about hentai doujinshi)
No, as approach infinity != infinity.
Wrong, because if one doubts logic, than one can doubt and not doubt at the same time. (double think is not allowed under a logical fame work, but if you throw logic out....people do throw logic out in real life as well)
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you presume that knowledge, logic and thought "exists", than the rest of existence is quesi-trivial via relation. The actual properties of existence might be unknown and perhaps unknowable, but it is irrevelent to a proof of existence, only a proof of mechanism.
but then, how do you know those who believe in you exits? there has to be someone who think they exist and since it cant be you (because that would lead to a infinite loop) a 3rd being has to exist and believe in them, and so on... therefore, someone will be the last one "existing" but since there's no one else that beliebes in that being, it cannot exist, thus none of us exists
I'll rarher go with Descartes' theorem (I think and therefore I am) which literally transaltes to "i think, then i exist" which is an already proven logical truth (p -> q ; P then Q) that theorem is true as long as P is not false... and since i could think all this pointless chatter, i beliebe i exist
period ^_^
so you think you dont exist¿
wel if you dont exist you dont Need to do things right???? .....right!
well then
then dont breath just dont breaht anymore
look what wil happen
you'll find your awnser there
In reference to the first post, according to my philosophy professor (man he was great) the actual quote is "I am thinking, therefore I am". So since i am thinking currently i exist in some form or another, but I'm pretty sure the rest of you are just wierd little voices in my head ;-).
man you guys have bin to lang behind your pc's
not really ^_^ i only spend enought time to do my homework, leech MT and post in forums... is that so much time?