*medico-military research: freezing, high altitude, sea water experiements,
sulfanilamide, TB experiments, etc
*others: poison, wound, artificial insemination, sterilization
experiments
These are examples of the various types of experiments that Nazis conducted on
Jews and prisoners in the name of medical research. They were of course also
methods of torture, but people conducting these were qualified scientists and
doctors, who collected and compiled the data.
Following the war, the United States (e.g. CIA) hired Nazi scientists based on
their wartime research. Today, there are scientists and those in academia who
believe the taboo Nazi past is holding back modern research and treatment.
Obviously there is no question whatsoever about the ethics and brutality of
how these were obtained. The question is
this:
==>If this data has potential to help future
patients and further the advancement in medicine, do you think it's acceptable
to use them given the circumstances under which they were
obtained?
using those results would be a violation of the people that endured the
sufferings , i think we should not .
beside this question is very complex and has been asked many times before , its
an ethical problem
Well we already use artificial insemination, and the Nazis did alot to prove
the theory of genetics. The question is how do we stop Countries, Companies,
and individuals from doing it again.
Quote by EnTrOpIsTausing those results
would be a violation of the people that endured the sufferings , i think we
should not .
beside this question is very complex and has been asked many times before , its
an ethical problem
It's a little hard to violate the dead. Also, would it not be better to make
something good come from suffering?
Yes, we are already using the data. To not use the data will have made the
victims suffering and death pointless and meaningless.
Though it was a cruel and tragic thing to have happened to them, at least their
legacy may help other people.
Quote by NazarovYes, we are already using
the data. To not use the data will have made
the victims suffering and death pointless and meaningless.
Though it was a cruel and tragic thing to have happened to them, at
least their legacy may help other people.
i agree with you
100% Nazarov-san. i think the best way to honor the dead is to make sure that
their deaths were not in vain. if we can use the "research" that was
obtained to help others, shouldn't we?
Well whether or not we use the data, is it ethical..?
I guess people who are against this see it as salvaging 'good' from evil and -
to put it rashly - taking advantage of the victims' unspeakable suffering. By
using the data, people think that what the Nazis did is, in a sense, justified.
So many don't exactly see this as 'honoring' the dead.
Quote by unicorn2006Well whether or
not we use the data, is it ethical..?
I guess people who are against this see it as salvaging 'good' from evil and -
to put it rashly - taking advantage of the victims' unspeakable suffering. By
using the data, people think that what the Nazis did is, in a sense, justified.
So many don't exactly see this as 'honoring' the
dead.
But put it this way. Is it ethical to prolong the suffering of the current
victims who is suffering from the ailments that the victims under Nazi has
suffered, especially when we do know how to ease the suffering. Letting those
who can be treated suffer to honor the Nazi victims does not sound like a
logical or ethical thing to do in my opinion. That is from what I see a
borderline sacrificial ceremony.
if they died w/o reason then thier deaths were in vain
but by using this data we make thier death "useful" (sorry)
if u ask me its like they sacrificed their lives for the future look at all the
people who are happy because even though they cannot bear a child thru artifical
insemination they becoma happy thanks to the people who gave thier lives for it
im sure the people who suffered will be happy to see what their death gave to
other people
Even though it's from the Nazi's, some of the German inventions during that time
proved signifigant to today's world (believe it or not, the Germans were the
first to build flying jets; also, a guy invented one of the first numarical
calculators (ones that actually use numbers, unlike the abacis).
Everyone here has failed to realise that Nazis' research were used.
One of the things the Americans wanted to do during the war was to capture the
German scientists because they knew how to create an atomic bomb.
i guess the German scientists just can't refuse. It would either be spending the
rest of their lives in jail OR work for the Americans and get paid a shit load
of money a year.
I thought you'd all like to know, Japan believed they had the knowledge to build
atomic bombs, so Germany sent them the radioactive materials using a U-boat.
That U-boat was captured and the radioactive materials were created into atomic
bombs by the Americans which destroyed 2 cities of Japan.
I believe nazis are pricks, but knowledge that could benefit us and throw it all
away is a stupid move. So what that nazis tortured Jews to gain this
information. If you seen Fight Club, then you'll know what I mean. "Without
pain or suffering, we would have nothing."
Many inventions have been made by german scientiests, and there is nobody
talking about. that's ok.
But if we talk about the things the nazi's found out in their researches i think
we have to use it in good ways, just because so many people died for it. Even
though i wish all these things never happened we have to use it because of
respect for the dead and because then their death was not useless.
Personally, I think that the damage has already been done. Why not put the few
good end products to use, right? On the other hand, I'm no WWII survivor. What
do I know? It's a complex issue....
The acts identified with it were horrible, but it would be a giant waste to
simply discard such data. People went through awful torture for that data. I
think it should be used. At least one good thing can come from that period of
awful history.
Quote by SuniraThe acts identified with it
were horrible, but it would be a giant waste to simply discard such data. People
went through awful torture for that data. I think it should be used. At least
one good thing can come from that period of awful history.
For the sake of playing devil's advocate, let me ask this. While what you say
is certainly true, as the data that both the Nazis and the Japanese obtained
through what is considered inhumane medical experimentation is extremely
valuable and probably could not be obtained in any other way, doesn't adopting a
"it was a terrible thing to do, but as long as we have the data, we should
use it" mentality open the door to further atrocities in the future?
a large portion of this information is already in use
the nazis had found the points when the body experiences hypothermia
they may have killed a lot of people
but most scientists know that that info was to be obtained one way or another
so they should use it so that the sacrifice of the innocent doesnt go to waste.
i agree with shinsengumi that we need to make sure that none of this happens
again.
if we let their suffering go to waste, shame on us
but we need to make sure no one else has to suffer
yes, why not? early hospital treatment was carried out through trial and error
on humans, even cutting them up whilst they were fully awake, as long as the
research is used for the good of all humanity, it should be fine.
i don't think so... because you have to think... how would you find if this
would help as a medicine without having to test it some way now in the modern
days... it's been what sixty years since the holocost and some of the vairables
would have changed because of effecting ozone, chemicals, etc.
Quote by shinsengumidoesn't adopting
a "it was a terrible thing to do, but as long as we
have the data, we should use it" mentality open the door to further
atrocities in the future?
well isn't the future already here? there's a lot of labs that offer money to
experiment their new products, and it's often the poor ppl who do it (i mean in
the "rich" countries). then about blaming the Nazis and Japanese ppl,
you can also put the blame on the Americans who used the bomb on Hiroshima
Nagasaki. isn't the data collected afterward on the victimes of the radiations
really usefull to both prevention / cure of nuclear linked diseases, and also
for radio-therapy?
the fact that war is a period when a group of person are clashing against each
other seems like atrocities as these are bound to happen whatever we do. the
Genevia treaty for example is kind of pointless, because war is basically the
absence of rules, so why try to edict some. to get to victory one will use every
mean at hand ne? (except maybe MAD atomic war). but i think that only developped
countries can make such things come true, because you have to have a real
infrastructure backup as well as scientists.
Well..I feel that..
In this world... In order to have white there must be black..
It's the principle of Yin & Yang.. When there's no bad how can there be
good?
Same goes to this..We take the Nazi scientist as murderers who killed other
humans as experiments.. & we take the current doctors who got all this past
data from the scientist as our savior or good ppl..
During wwii.. We were researching about nuclear technologies..>
Although we're not focusing on that now...But they government are targeting more
on biological warfare...
*medico-military research: freezing, high altitude, sea water experiements, sulfanilamide, TB experiments, etc
*others: poison, wound, artificial insemination, sterilization experiments
These are examples of the various types of experiments that Nazis conducted on Jews and prisoners in the name of medical research. They were of course also methods of torture, but people conducting these were qualified scientists and doctors, who collected and compiled the data.
Following the war, the United States (e.g. CIA) hired Nazi scientists based on their wartime research. Today, there are scientists and those in academia who believe the taboo Nazi past is holding back modern research and treatment.
Obviously there is no question whatsoever about the ethics and brutality of how these were obtained. The question is this:
==>If this data has potential to help future patients and further the advancement in medicine, do you think it's acceptable to use them given the circumstances under which they were obtained?
What's done is done, if it can help now, sure. I simply wonder what practical use this research could possibly be put toward, however.
using those results would be a violation of the people that endured the sufferings , i think we should not .
beside this question is very complex and has been asked many times before , its an ethical problem
Well we already use artificial insemination, and the Nazis did alot to prove the theory of genetics. The question is how do we stop Countries, Companies, and individuals from doing it again.
It's a little hard to violate the dead. Also, would it not be better to make something good come from suffering?
We are already using them for the most part.
Yes, we are already using the data. To not use the data will have made the victims suffering and death pointless and meaningless.
Though it was a cruel and tragic thing to have happened to them, at least their legacy may help other people.
i agree with you 100% Nazarov-san. i think the best way to honor the dead is to make sure that their deaths were not in vain. if we can use the "research" that was obtained to help others, shouldn't we?
Well whether or not we use the data, is it ethical..?
I guess people who are against this see it as salvaging 'good' from evil and - to put it rashly - taking advantage of the victims' unspeakable suffering. By using the data, people think that what the Nazis did is, in a sense, justified. So many don't exactly see this as 'honoring' the dead.
But put it this way. Is it ethical to prolong the suffering of the current victims who is suffering from the ailments that the victims under Nazi has suffered, especially when we do know how to ease the suffering. Letting those who can be treated suffer to honor the Nazi victims does not sound like a logical or ethical thing to do in my opinion. That is from what I see a borderline sacrificial ceremony.
this is a really touchy topic
if they died w/o reason then thier deaths were in vain
but by using this data we make thier death "useful" (sorry)
if u ask me its like they sacrificed their lives for the future look at all the people who are happy because even though they cannot bear a child thru artifical insemination they becoma happy thanks to the people who gave thier lives for it im sure the people who suffered will be happy to see what their death gave to other people
i agree with halomin
it was evil what the nazis did, but to put the information they gained to waste would be idiotic
Yes, use the data. Data is always good.
Even though it's from the Nazi's, some of the German inventions during that time proved signifigant to today's world (believe it or not, the Germans were the first to build flying jets; also, a guy invented one of the first numarical calculators (ones that actually use numbers, unlike the abacis).
Everyone here has failed to realise that Nazis' research were used.
One of the things the Americans wanted to do during the war was to capture the German scientists because they knew how to create an atomic bomb.
i guess the German scientists just can't refuse. It would either be spending the rest of their lives in jail OR work for the Americans and get paid a shit load of money a year.
I thought you'd all like to know, Japan believed they had the knowledge to build atomic bombs, so Germany sent them the radioactive materials using a U-boat. That U-boat was captured and the radioactive materials were created into atomic bombs by the Americans which destroyed 2 cities of Japan.
I believe nazis are pricks, but knowledge that could benefit us and throw it all away is a stupid move. So what that nazis tortured Jews to gain this information. If you seen Fight Club, then you'll know what I mean. "Without pain or suffering, we would have nothing."
Many inventions have been made by german scientiests, and there is nobody talking about. that's ok.
But if we talk about the things the nazi's found out in their researches i think we have to use it in good ways, just because so many people died for it. Even though i wish all these things never happened we have to use it because of respect for the dead and because then their death was not useless.
Personally, I think that the damage has already been done. Why not put the few good end products to use, right? On the other hand, I'm no WWII survivor. What do I know? It's a complex issue....
The acts identified with it were horrible, but it would be a giant waste to simply discard such data. People went through awful torture for that data. I think it should be used. At least one good thing can come from that period of awful history.
For the sake of playing devil's advocate, let me ask this. While what you say is certainly true, as the data that both the Nazis and the Japanese obtained through what is considered inhumane medical experimentation is extremely valuable and probably could not be obtained in any other way, doesn't adopting a "it was a terrible thing to do, but as long as we have the data, we should use it" mentality open the door to further atrocities in the future?
a large portion of this information is already in use
the nazis had found the points when the body experiences hypothermia
they may have killed a lot of people
but most scientists know that that info was to be obtained one way or another
so they should use it so that the sacrifice of the innocent doesnt go to waste.
i agree with shinsengumi that we need to make sure that none of this happens again.
if we let their suffering go to waste, shame on us
but we need to make sure no one else has to suffer
yes, why not? early hospital treatment was carried out through trial and error on humans, even cutting them up whilst they were fully awake, as long as the research is used for the good of all humanity, it should be fine.
I really don't think they should use it... atleast.. give the people who got tortured that honor
i don't think so... because you have to think... how would you find if this would help as a medicine without having to test it some way now in the modern days... it's been what sixty years since the holocost and some of the vairables would have changed because of effecting ozone, chemicals, etc.
well isn't the future already here? there's a lot of labs that offer money to experiment their new products, and it's often the poor ppl who do it (i mean in the "rich" countries). then about blaming the Nazis and Japanese ppl, you can also put the blame on the Americans who used the bomb on Hiroshima Nagasaki. isn't the data collected afterward on the victimes of the radiations really usefull to both prevention / cure of nuclear linked diseases, and also for radio-therapy?
the fact that war is a period when a group of person are clashing against each other seems like atrocities as these are bound to happen whatever we do. the Genevia treaty for example is kind of pointless, because war is basically the absence of rules, so why try to edict some. to get to victory one will use every mean at hand ne? (except maybe MAD atomic war). but i think that only developped countries can make such things come true, because you have to have a real infrastructure backup as well as scientists.
Well..I feel that..
In this world... In order to have white there must be black..
It's the principle of Yin & Yang.. When there's no bad how can there be good?
Same goes to this..We take the Nazi scientist as murderers who killed other humans as experiments.. & we take the current doctors who got all this past data from the scientist as our savior or good ppl..
During wwii.. We were researching about nuclear technologies..>
Although we're not focusing on that now...But they government are targeting more on biological warfare...