Some people say that life is like a candle. It is lighted at birth and
henceforth sheds its dim light upon its limited surroundings,flicking
uncertainly in every breeze, knowing that any sudden gust of wind will
extinguish it, and, finally, futilely sputtering out as the tallow is
consumed.
Of course, just as saying life is like a candle does not make it so. And there
still would remain two relevant questions. Who lit the candle? And, why?
There are other considerations.
It wisely has been said that an undevout astronomer is an idiot.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive effects with no cause, motion
without a mover, a circle without a center, time without eternity.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive a second without a first, action
without energy, thought without thinker, a thing formed from NOthing by
NOthing.
To be an atheist, one would have to believe that what is made, exists, but that
which made it does not exist. Try applying that proposition to the infinity of
the universe!
Such beliefs are so against natural reason to be untenable to any sane mind.
But they were the subject of a serious discussion between two goldfish as they
swam in their crystal clear bowl. Finally, one goldfish in exasperation
concluded the argument with a pertinent question, "So... if there is no
Man, who changes the water?"
What do you think? What answer would you give?
I will do my best to react on the arguments you would give.
Who created god then?
This one question really doesnt have an answer because its exactly the same as
the question you are asking. Who created the creator?
Your ownly evedince that god exists is that there is a lack of evedince towards
everything else.
even though atheists do not believe in god ...it doesn't mean they have no
meaning and they don't take thought in they're actions...it just means they
believe that they are here and the things they do and they their meaning in life
is not influenced by some thing greater...beyond their controll...they believe
that life is just life and they believe in that and what they do in their life
is just something they live to their desire
and instead of praying to something that may not be there and feeling safe in
times of danger...they go do something about it with their own desire and is
actually safe....
thats just an point of view...i hope no body was offended ><
I think God is a bored kid with an ant farm full of creatures, He set us up and
our universe ( which is tiny in his perspective) then let us go about our lives
spawning and changing, finding just enough evidence of him to create separate
religions which we would use as excuses for us to slaughter each other and
commit atrocities. Even if he did care for a while he probably got disgusted
when he saw what humans did with his teachings. We turned them into a book which
was used by rulers to command his peons with religion and make them believe that
what he told them to do was the word of god. Hell if I were god, I would have
already destroyed this planet and started fresh elsewhere.
Why do people assume that just because we are unaware of the cause of something
that it must be caused by a god? Really, itâs no different than
explaining lightning as something Zeus creates.
Quote by samu02 Such beliefs are so
against natural reason to be untenable to any sane
mind.
You think I'm insane because I'm an atheist? Thanks. I just think you're a
person, like many people, who is too scared to give up the
"comforting" belief in a higher power; you grasp at straws in an
attempt to preserve your beliefs against the rampant erosion caused by science.
It is you who go against natural reason by denying the truth. Don't misread me,
I do respect your position I just disagree with it. At least your post was well
written; I've read some terrible posts on the subject in the past.
Quote by AJS13Who created god then?
This one question really doesnt have an answer because its exactly the same as
the question you are asking. Who created the creator?
Your ownly evedince that god exists is that there is a lack of evedince towards
everything else.
This is what makes me laugh. Theists think that it's fact that some big
invisible spiritual daddy has been around for eternity without anyone creating
him, yet the Big Bang and other theories are entirely implausible.
You are talking as if we were not the realists in this subject. To clear the
smoke in your head regarding our, as you frased it, nothing from nothing, I will
reform it to everything from something.
The view we (I) have of universe and its creation is incompleted and far from
simple, but we only defend what has been showed true by physics, maths and as it
always has been, we struggle forward to the answers of all, even it changes
science.
It is the teachings of cause and affect that stands behind, humans wishing to
understand, and if a god would show up in the middle of it, surely we would take
him for the answer. But he or she or what ever it would be is not here. And
during the time that the allmighty isn't here I would be glad if you just let
the struggle continue as it always has. As I see it, religion is a cause of a
search, just like the Big Bang theory. It has just evolved to something alot of
people accept without question, and that's just foolish.
A few hundred years ago the earth was flat and the sun cirkled around it, but a
few mens disagreement and need to find the true story changed all that. Atheist
or not, it should be welcomed to question god. And science when I think about
it, since I just want to know the cause of it all.
Quote by AJS13Who created god then?
This one question really doesnt have an answer because its exactly the same as
the question you are asking. Who created the creator?
Your ownly evedince that god exists is that there is a lack of evedince towards
everything else.
Truly, is that what you think?
It did say that he is the alpha and the omega.
Lack of evidence towards everything else? But to know what is lacking you need
to have something that is complete. What would your basis be that everything
else lacks evidence?
merged: 11-22-2005 ~ 04:57pm
Quote by ShamshielWhy do people assume
that just because we are unaware of the cause of something that it must be
caused by a god? Really,
it�s no different than
explaining lightning as something Zeus creates.
Quote by samu02 Such beliefs are so
against natural reason to be untenable to any sane
mind.
You think I'm insane because I'm an atheist? Thanks. I just think you're a
person, like many people, who is too scared to give up the
"comforting" belief in a higher power; you grasp at straws in an
attempt to preserve your beliefs against the rampant erosion caused by science.
It is you who go against natural reason by denying the truth. Don't misread me,
I do respect your position I just disagree with it. At least your post was well
written; I've read some terrible posts on the subject in the past.
"comforting"?
The idea of God is what frightens me. Yet I cannot deny His existence. To know
that I have a hidden benefactor whom I will not be able to repay in kind. To
live my life, knowing that what I do, no matter how small, no matter how
insignificant, will matter in the final tally of things. The idea that he sees
what I do scares me for I have not been righteous.
Erosion of Science? If you are referring to its new discoveries, you will note
that the Bible contains scientific facts that were only proven hundreds of years
after they have been written. I seek the truth. I do not cling to a belief when
evidence shows it to be false. But up to now, I see no evidence proving the
existence of God to be untrue.
I totally agree with Samu! There are proven evidences of so many things in the
Bible, it'd be strange to deny it. Altho I would defend Samu, I'm pretty sure
this is an endless debate, so i'll just say that there'll never be enough
evidence to prove that God exists, and to believe that God exists is the
greatest faith
Quote by FysanYou are talking as if we were
not the realists in this subject. To clear the smoke in your head regarding our,
as you frased it, nothing from nothing, I will reform it to everything from
something.
The view we (I) have of universe and its creation is incompleted and far from
simple, but we only defend what has been showed true by physics, maths and as it
always has been, we struggle forward to the answers of all, even it changes
science.
It is the teachings of cause and affect that stands behind, humans wishing to
understand, and if a god would show up in the middle of it, surely we would take
him for the answer. But he or she or what ever it would be is not here. And
during the time that the allmighty isn't here I would be glad if you just let
the struggle continue as it always has. As I see it, religion is a cause of a
search, just like the Big Bang theory. It has just evolved to something alot of
people accept without question, and that's just foolish.
A few hundred years ago the earth was flat and the sun cirkled around it, but a
few mens disagreement and need to find the true story changed all that. Atheist
or not, it should be welcomed to question god. And science when I think about
it, since I just want to know the cause of it all.
AH, A man after my own heart. You question, you inquire. It is good not to
accept everything that is laid before us. We must search for truth. And you, as
you said, would rely on science to know what is true, so be it. Let time be the
judge on what is true and what will be proven as untrue.
you know what the 1 major flaw in you argument is? Its the fact that you believe
that Christianity is the one true religion, God created this, god created that.
Its really kinda pathetic.
I do not belieb in any form of god, HOWEVER, that does not mean that i dont
respect the fact that tohers choose to believe and worship who/what they want. I
personally cant fathom the concept that there is an almight presence among the
universe.
However dont say "oh your just naive", If you can give me any SOLID
evidence that there is such a thing as a god and not something from the bible.
But concrete eveidence. "they have proof that jesus existed and was
cruicified" doenst hold up.
Also a mojor reason people are religious isbcuase they are affraid of the
thought of death/afterlife. is the heaven, is there hell. that sort of thing.
The laws of physics, math and in other ways biology and chemistry give solid
facts that make seeing the universe easy. Sure the big bang theory is a big hard
to grasp and that space is essentially an unlimited space. But how is the theory
of a god any easier to grasp.
And for all you people who believe in intelligent design, get over it, its not a
new theory of the universe, its essentially another god theory "Some
almighty person created this becuase its perfect"
Ive probably babbled on enough and i dont knwo if a answered the question or
not.
Cheers
A purpose in life gives one something to live for, work for, and something to
hope for. What are you living for? What is your purpose in life? Does life make
sense at all without God? You can say "Science is the answer to
everything" but science doesn't deliver the truth; what it provides are
answers in an attempt to get nearer to truth. Science also cannot explain the
existence of each of us as a unique self, nor can it answer such fundamental
questions as: Who am I? Why am I here? How did I come to be at a certain place
and time? What happens after death? These are all mysteries that are beyond
science.
Doesn't all of the evidence in science already point to an Intelligent Designer?
Is science enough to answer our questions, unperfect as we are? The question is
not "Where is God" but "Where isn't He?" The fact is never
the whole truth. You get the whole truth only when you add the ideal and
beautiful, to cold fact.
"The spectacle of the universe becomes so much the grander, so much the
more beautiful, the worthier of its Author, when one knows that a small number
of laws, mostly established, suffice for all moment." Manpertuis
Quote by FysanAs I see it, religion is a
cause of a search, just like the Big Bang theory. It has just evolved to
something alot of people accept without question, and that's just
foolish.
It depends on which religion you are talking about. Some involve working for
your salvation, and others teach you that you just have to accept Jesus into
your heart for salvation. Some religions are accepted because the people are
brainwashed to believe it, some are accepted because people believe that it is
the way to salvation, and some are accepted because they teach you the true way
to salvation, and that's the journey that man has been going on since the
beginning of time. They also answer "Why am I here and Who created
me?"-the answers are for God and God. As I see it, I think evolution is a
religion as well, because if you don't place your faith in God, you place your
faith in nature and matter itself.
About the Big Bang Theory, I find it very confusing how nothing came out of
nothing. If you think of God as nothing, then you would think of your mind as
nothing, because your mind is a little bit of the spiritual realm. Do you
believe that nothing spiritual exists in this world? How would you explain the
uniqueness of each person on this Earth, seeing that everybody thinks
differently, and has a different personality?
You were made by God and for God-and until byou unterstand that, life will never
make sense.
merged: 11-22-2005 ~ 05:34pm
Please note that I respect your decisions for being atheist, but I would like to
challenge you in your thinking of why you believe so....besides, this is a
"Challenge to the Atheist" thread anyway. ^_^
I believe in god, I am a proud Muslim. I wanted to state the following example
in this debate. Excuse my English if it is not proper. Example: During the
Prophet Muhammadâs time (PBUH) (who spread Allahâs word of Islam
to the world).There lived a scientist that believed in one god (Allah) according
to the prophet's teachings. He lived his life with such firm and strong
faith.
One day his friends, who do NOT believe in god go up to him and say
âhow can you believe in god? Prove that?" the scientists stood
there for a second, thought deeply and replied âmeet me by my house in 1
hour". His friends were confused with his answer and thought that he had no
argument against them, yet they agreed to meet him by his house in 1 hour.
So, by the scientist's house his friends waited for an hour... then two... then
three. Their scientist friend did not show any signs of arrival. But finally out
of no where the scientist arrives. As soon as he approaches his friends, they
question him with both disappointment and anger âWhy are you late?
Didnât you say too meet you by your house in an hour?!"
The scientist replied âwell, I was going to, but as I was walking
towards here, I came across an active and strong river. I could not cross the
river to get to my house to meet you. But then, suddenly, a tree fell, and after
that the wind blew strong and chopped the tree to pieces. Also, the river moved
in a way that connected the treeâs wooden pieces together forming a
raft! Furthermore, the raft, moved by the currents, came tawards me. So I got
on, and it took me across the river. And thatâs why Iâm
late.â
His friends where in great shock, and replied by sayingâ are you crazy?!
How could such an event occur?â The scientist said âIf you do
not even believe a simple raft being formed and created by itself out of
nothing, then how do you deny the entire universe having to "occur"
and "form" out of nothing with no creator?" later on his friends
started getting to Islamâs roots by reading the Holy Quran. Time passed,
the scientistâs friends believed in god(Allah).
I do not believe in god how can you belive a thing that is so
uncertain(unbelievable). Im a atheist i believe in miracles i believe that there
is more between heaven and earth but i dont believe in god. I think its a good
thing to believe cuz it makes u strong but i also see it as a weakness for
people who dont want to see reality in the eyes. Cuz reality is that we dont
know what happens after death and i think that it scares a lot of people its so
much easyer to just believe in a religion and think it goes you good i also
think religion makes a lot of people narrow minded the only thing they can see
is there religion the question is just is it a friendly religion or agresive i
believe that there is something after death but i dont think i matters if you
have lived after the bible or if you are a mass murderer i think all people
comes to a place after death no matter what they have done but the thing that
scares me more than death is what happens when the univers ends thats my real
fear. can you see your existence end? death is one thing what about whats after
death.
IMO atheists are as wrong as religious people since they pretend to know
something to be true without evidence. Some people just can't comprehend that we
don't know everything at this point in time. Maybe they should learn about how
it used to be widely accepted that the Earth was the center of the Universe just
because they didn't know what we know now.
As a result, I've developed into a hybrid between an agnostic and a
transcendentalist (but I suppose that's atheist enough to qualify). You cannot
prove that there is God, nor can you disprove it. So why bother debating about
it, if it won't get you anywhere?
As for the question that you raised, science has developed theories--nothing
more than theories, however--about the creation of the universe. The Big Bang,
evolution, etcetera, etcetera. Far from being factually proven, certainly--but
at least they can claim to be scientific theories, unlike your religion--what
can it claim? It is a myth, made stronger only because so many people believe
it. But why do they believe it? Because their parents told them to. Because they
can't see anything else to believe. But there's nothing that's been proven. For
all you know, life could just be one big fact damn coincidence, created by the
big bang or some other collision of matter.
But it's not proven, and it can't be. So instead of acting all high-and-mighty,
preaching religion as though it were truth, why not spend the time you waste
trying to reason for the unprovable on the life you're living right now?
I've found my purpose in life. I want to be happy, and I want to make as many
people as possible happy. Instead of worrying about what happens after I die, I
simply live the life I'm living now. Instead of asking God why I'm here, I
simply enjoy the fact that I AM here, and try to make the most of it. I don't
need someone else to tell me why I should live. That's why I believe what I do.
Quote by AJS13Who
created god then?
This one question really doesnt have an answer because its exactly the same as
the question you are asking. Who created the creator?
Your ownly evedince that god exists is that there is a lack of evedince towards
everything else.
Truly, is that what you think?
It did say that he is the alpha and the omega.
Lack of evidence towards everything else? But to know what is lacking you need
to have something that is complete. What would your basis be that everything
else lacks evidence?
merged: 11-22-2005 ~ 04:57pm
Quote by ShamshielWhy do people assume
that just because we are unaware of the cause of something that it must be
caused by a god? Really,
it�s
no different than explaining lightning as something Zeus creates.
Quote by samu02 Such beliefs are so
against natural reason to be untenable to any sane
mind.
You think I'm insane because I'm an atheist? Thanks. I just think you're a
person, like many people, who is too scared to give up the
"comforting" belief in a higher power; you grasp at straws in an
attempt to preserve your beliefs against the rampant erosion caused by science.
It is you who go against natural reason by denying the truth. Don't misread me,
I do respect your position I just disagree with it. At least your post was well
written; I've read some terrible posts on the subject in the past.
"comforting"?
The idea of God is what frightens me. Yet I cannot deny His existence. To know
that I have a hidden benefactor whom I will not be able to repay in kind. To
live my life, knowing that what I do, no matter how small, no matter how
insignificant, will matter in the final tally of things. The idea that he sees
what I do scares me for I have not been righteous.
Erosion of Science? If you are referring to its new discoveries, you will note
that the Bible contains scientific facts that were only proven hundreds of years
after they have been written. I seek the truth. I do not cling to a belief when
evidence shows it to be false. But up to now, I see no evidence proving the
existence of God to be untrue.
It's not really the idea of a creator that athiests reject, it's the Abrahamic
god and the bible(which, according to my knowledge, does conflict with scientific fact if you take it literally.).
They tend to believe what is determined through science, instead of things in
the bible, and I bet if the entire Bible was changed periodically to match with
that of modern science, there would be a lot less athiests around.
Anyway, another thing. I've analized God's behavior through what I've heard
about religion, and honestly, I can't imagine worshipping him even if I knew he
existed. But really, it depends on what he is truely like. If he excusively
favors those of the "right" religion and sends everyone else to hell,
then I would definitely not worship him. Well, I would, but not wholeheartedly
or willingly, inside my mind I wouldn't even respect him. But if it were more
'do good deeds, follow the ten commandments' sort of thing, then I'd probably
not hate him so much. If that were the case, actually, you wouldn't even have to
believe in him, you could just be morally just and you would be sent to heaven
in the afterlife.
The problem is, the bible in itself is contradictory, I can even bring you some
quotes right out of it I found in another thread.(on another forum). It gives
different descriptions of god behavior, different descriptions of God's will,
different descriptions of lots of things.
Quote by TheSiegfriedI totally agree
with Samu! There are proven evidences of so many things in the Bible, it'd be
strange to deny it.
Like what? I'm not being nasty, I really want to know. Since I was born and
raised Athiest, I hardly know the basics of the bible, and I wouldn't be able to
tell if there was proven evidences or not. I know the bible was based on
historical events, and then somewhat exaguratted(SP). Is that what you
mean?
I know it's the opposite way for me. There's also evidence of evolution by
natural selection, the origins of the earth and sun, and the behavior of itself
which contradict things said in the bible. Having heard all this first, from my
father, it would also be strange for me to become a devout follower of
God.
Quote by CagariDoesn't all of the evidence
in science already point to an Intelligent
Designer?
Heck no. In fact quite the opposite. There is NO evidence that a God created the
universe except the evidence fabricated by religious fundamentalists. Such as
yourself I suspect. Also you are gravely misinterpreting the Big Bang theory.
Nothing did not sprout from nothing. Only someone who believed that God made the
entire universe out of nothing would believe that. What it ACTUALLY postulates
is that about 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion
of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this
event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. As you
can see there is no mention of matter being spontaneously created from nothing
unlike Genesis which states that "In the beginning God created the heaven
and the earth." From what did he create them from? Nothing? Hmm God made
something from nothing.....Maybe what you're actually confused about is
God?
Quote by CagariTo be an atheist, one would
have to conceive effects with no cause, motion without a mover, a circle without
a center, time without eternity.
Hmm are you trying to say that the science that atheists believe in does not
show cause? So by believing the universe was made by a big explosion atheists
aren't believing in a cause to the effect that we know as the universe? I think
it's the people who believe in God that don't conceive effects without cause.
Because they do not understand the effect it therefore must have been caused by
God. Also I believe Stephen Hawking postulated that there is indeed a beginning
and eventual end to time in The Universe in a Nutshell. Also some scientists
believe that the universe has always existed but is in a state of flux between
expansion and compression. That means that the universe could have been created
in a big bang, expanded, then later collapsed and exploded all over
again.
Quote by CagariErosion of Science? If you
are referring to its new discoveries, you will note that the Bible contains
scientific facts that were only proven hundreds of years after they have been
written. I seek the truth. I do not cling to a belief when evidence shows it to
be false. But up to now, I see no evidence proving the existence of God to be
untrue.
These are religious fallcies fed to you by foolish people. There are
OVERWHELMING contradictions in the Bible. So maybe a few things were right. WHAT
ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG?
Mark 16:17-18 (King James Version)
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast
out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not
hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This is basically saying that any believer can handle snakes or drink poison and
not experience any harm. (Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result
of handling snakes and drinking poison.) If you believe this please have a black
mamba bite you (one of the most deadly snakes in the world).
You say atheists cling to a false belief. Where the heck is the evidence you
have stated that proves it to be false? Perhaps I hid it under my couch next to
my Bible...I believe that there is little evidence to prove God doesn't exist
but also there is little evidence that he does.
The Bible DOES contain amazing facts about the planet earth, compatible with
modern science, which were unknown in ancient times. One verse that is often
cited in this regard is Job 26:7, which says that the earth is suspended upon
nothing. That is indeed a remarkable insight, coming from an ancient writer. One
wonders, however, what to make of it, since the same writer refers to "the
pillars of the earth" (9:6, 38:6) and "the pillars of the
heavens" (26:11). The idea that the earth rests on a foundation or pillars
is also expressed at 1Sa 2:8 and Ps 75:3, 104:5.
The Bible (1Ch 16:30; Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5) declares that the earth does not
move, whereas we know for a fact that the earth does move.
According to Ge 1:16-17, the earth was already in existence when the sun and the
stars were created, yet scientists have determined that the stars existed
billions of years before the earth and that the sun also existed prior to the
earth (which revolves around the sun if you didn't know).
According to Ge 1:20-25, birds were in existence before reptiles and insects
(things which "creep upon the earth"). But science has established
that there were reptiles on the earth 150 million years before there were any
birds and that insects go back another 100 million years before
reptiles.
According to the Bible snakes eat dust (Ge 3:14) or will eat dust (Isa 65:25).
But the fact of the matter is that snakes do not eat dust.
Genesis describes a worldwide flood that covered all the mountains on earth
(7:19-20), but such a flood is impossible. Among other problems, there is
nowhere from which such an enormous quantity of water (at least a half-billion
cubic miles) could have come prior to the flood and there is no place to which
it could have gone afterwards.
But let us remember one key difference between science and religion. Religion
says that it is always right. That it is perfect and can never be wrong in any
aspect. It is immutable as the alledged God Himself. Science however
specifically states that it can be wrong. In fact science is constantly changing
because new ideas and facts are found constantly.
In the end I find that I can easily find a purpose in life in the absence of
God.
Dakara... would be ten times easiler to stick to pure science instead instead of
explaining everything in the bible... bible is extremely difficult book to
explain.
first thing
Quote:
who made God
lol dunno, hes self existing, maybe he evolved . but by
our understanding, our universe is extremely complex is seems extremely
unrealistic to expect everything to just happen by chance. Its like saying out
of chance, a fully functional car was made by erosion, weathering, radioactive
decay etc.
dun go there, science- not religion has already owned the theory, no major
scientist would ever even attempt to defend the theory, unless they defend it on
religious grounds
Quote:
Mark 16:17-18 (King James Version)
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out
devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not
hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
yesh, ppl do survive after being bitten by snakes, ppl do cast out devils, ppl
do speak in new tongues, and the next thing you gonna say is show me proof? What
are we, circus performers? The other thing is the bible also says not to test
God, so even if we have the ability to do so, we won't jump off buildings just
to show you, God doesn't give christians superhuman powers and an ultimate
shield that protects us 24 7, and most supernatural event happen because we were
careless, ie by accident, which means we won't have a camera right next to us
In terms of speaking in new tongues and stuff, I think the denomination TJC is
more prominent in this kinda stuff and some miracles http://www.tjc.org/
read if you have time, and please, if you don't believe, then don't believe, no
need for insults thank you, I personally won't insult you for you beliefs and I
would expect the same.
Quote:
One wonders, however, what to make of it, since the same writer refers to
"the pillars of the earth" (9:6, 38:6) and "the pillars of the
heavens" (26:11). The idea that the earth rests on a foundation or pillars
is also expressed at 1Sa 2:8 and Ps 75:3, 104:5.
The Bible (1Ch 16:30; Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5) declares that the earth does not
move, whereas we know for a fact that the earth does move.
I think Job there was referring to a metaphor of how the earth shakes like a
building shakes when its pillars are moving. btw, Psalms and Job are considered
the wisdom books in the bible, they are so deep that theologians are unable to
explain it (big blow for us I know) but to explain usually u would have to go
back to the hebrew language etc. check for tranlation discreptancies, its a very
tedious process and I'm not a theologen so I can't explain everything u throw at
me in the bible, especially from the wisdom books. and the prophetic books. But
apart from that u can ask about anything else.
1Ch 16:30 Davids Psalms, like poem, you can't take it literally, I can't explain
most literally poems that aren't from the bible anyway
Quote:
According to Ge 1:16-17, the earth was already in existence when the sun and the
stars were created, yet scientists have determined that the stars existed
billions of years before the earth and that the sun also existed prior to the
earth (which revolves around the sun if you didn't know).
thats a hypothesis, has not really been proven, in fact scientific evidence puts
some doubts on that. Like can u explain to me how stars are dated?
Quote:
According to Ge 1:20-25, birds were in existence before reptiles and insects
(things which "creep upon the earth"). But science has established
that there were reptiles on the earth 150 million years before there were any
birds and that insects go back another 100 million years before reptiles.
To date I still don't know how scientist come up with this dates, and I never
learnt them. The only thing I learn is carbon dating which scientist themselves
admit is inaccurate after 50 000 years, because of the limited traces of
C-14
Quote:
According to the Bible snakes eat dust (Ge 3:14) or will eat dust (Isa 65:25).
But the fact of the matter is that snakes do not eat dust.
Honesty, if something craws on the ground all day, don't you think some dust
will get in their mouths
Quote:
Genesis describes a worldwide flood that covered all the mountains on earth
(7:19-20), but such a flood is impossible. Among other problems, there is
nowhere from which such an enormous quantity of water (at least a half-billion
cubic miles) could have come prior to the flood and there is no place to which
it could have gone afterwards.
there are some theories to the flood, the most current explanable theory is the
hydroplate theory www.creationscience.com
note, this theory itself still has many patches to fill (just like evolution),
or it would be called a truth otherwise.
Quote:
But let us remember one key difference between science and religion. Religion
says that it is always right. That it is perfect and can never be wrong in any
aspect. It is immutable as the alledged God Himself. Science however
specifically states that it can be wrong. In fact science is constantly changing
because new ideas and facts are found constantly.
Really? if thats so, why are there so many religions? take christianity for an
example, so many denominations, and disputes over which on as right, Islam, many
branches too, from the goody goody to the bombers. Are they both right? Isn't
their some disagreements between muslims themselves?
Quote:
In the end I find that I can easily find a purpose in life in the absence of
God.
wow, you must have an IQ of over 300, I'd like to hear your purpose in life.
this is a thing that many people can't answer. ie philosophy
Quote:
In the end I find that I can easily find a purpose in life in the absence of
God.
wow, you must have an IQ of over 300, I'd like to hear your purpose in life.
this is a thing that many people can't answer. ie philosophy
((that wasn't my post, but all the same, I have a bone to pick with your
reply))
I have never, not once, wondered about the meaning of life. I have also not
believed in God since I was five years old. The only reason I did believe in God
then was because I went to a Christian school and that's what they told me to
believe. By the time I was old enough to think for myself, I decided I would
rather life my life the way I wanted to, and not the way a God that couldn't be
proven to exist told me to.
I believe that everyone creates their own meaning in life. The people who search
for a meaning are the ones that fear they have none--the ones who know better
are content to merely live for the moment, make the most of their time on Earth,
seek happiness, fall in love, follow their passions, see the world, and never
regret anything. That's all I think there is to life. Why wonder about how we
got here, or why? We'll never find out, until perhaps after we die. What a
terrible waste of life to spend all your time wondering about death. Right now,
we're here, and we're alive. You must have something you want to accomplish in
life--so why don't you start it? You must have people you love and people who
love you, so if you want to spend time with them, spend time with them. If your
dream is to go to Paris, start saving your quarters, and go.
The wise men that sit on the top of the mountans, wondering away what the
meaning of life is, wonder because life has lost meaning for them. While they
grow old, their life slips away, and they will never be able to seek true
happiness. No one would have to wonder if they just looked around them. That's
what life has for us, it's right HERE. Not in heaven or anywhere else, but right
here.
You can't prove God--but you can't disprove him either. Instead of fighting an
unwinnable debate, why don't we live the life that's been given us right
now?
It's as simple as that. Live to live. Seek happiness. Have no regrets. That's
the meaning that life has for me.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive effects with no cause, motion
without a mover, a circle without a center, time without eternity.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive a second without a first, action
without energy, thought without thinker, a thing formed from NOthing by
NOthing.
To be an atheist, one would have to believe that what is made, exists, but that
which made it does not exist. Try applying that proposition to the infinity of
the universe!
-----
You try to use big words. Overall, you make absolutely no sense.
Science explains a ton of things; our origins (evolution), why things work the
way they do (physics). It explains enough to be a substitute for religion.
Religion, on the other hand, explains enough for others to be a substitute for
science.
You have no proof that God exists. There is no proof disproving his existence.
You try to question others when you can not answer your questions yourself. You
can say "it's God!" while the others can shout "it's
Science!". And while you think your answer is correct and worthy, so will
the other side.
Some people say that life is like a candle. It is lighted at birth and henceforth sheds its dim light upon its limited surroundings,flicking uncertainly in every breeze, knowing that any sudden gust of wind will extinguish it, and, finally, futilely sputtering out as the tallow is consumed.
Of course, just as saying life is like a candle does not make it so. And there still would remain two relevant questions. Who lit the candle? And, why?
There are other considerations.
It wisely has been said that an undevout astronomer is an idiot.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive effects with no cause, motion without a mover, a circle without a center, time without eternity.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive a second without a first, action without energy, thought without thinker, a thing formed from NOthing by NOthing.
To be an atheist, one would have to believe that what is made, exists, but that which made it does not exist. Try applying that proposition to the infinity of the universe!
Such beliefs are so against natural reason to be untenable to any sane mind.
But they were the subject of a serious discussion between two goldfish as they swam in their crystal clear bowl. Finally, one goldfish in exasperation concluded the argument with a pertinent question, "So... if there is no Man, who changes the water?"
What do you think? What answer would you give?
I will do my best to react on the arguments you would give.
Who created god then?
This one question really doesnt have an answer because its exactly the same as the question you are asking. Who created the creator?
Your ownly evedince that god exists is that there is a lack of evedince towards everything else.
there are many questions that can't be anwsered but i think that to belived in something is actually way better that completly be in denial.
even though atheists do not believe in god ...it doesn't mean they have no meaning and they don't take thought in they're actions...it just means they believe that they are here and the things they do and they their meaning in life is not influenced by some thing greater...beyond their controll...they believe that life is just life and they believe in that and what they do in their life is just something they live to their desire
and instead of praying to something that may not be there and feeling safe in times of danger...they go do something about it with their own desire and is actually safe....
thats just an point of view...i hope no body was offended ><
I think God is a bored kid with an ant farm full of creatures, He set us up and our universe ( which is tiny in his perspective) then let us go about our lives spawning and changing, finding just enough evidence of him to create separate religions which we would use as excuses for us to slaughter each other and commit atrocities. Even if he did care for a while he probably got disgusted when he saw what humans did with his teachings. We turned them into a book which was used by rulers to command his peons with religion and make them believe that what he told them to do was the word of god. Hell if I were god, I would have already destroyed this planet and started fresh elsewhere.
Why do people assume that just because we are unaware of the cause of something that it must be caused by a god? Really, itâs no different than explaining lightning as something Zeus creates.
You think I'm insane because I'm an atheist? Thanks. I just think you're a person, like many people, who is too scared to give up the "comforting" belief in a higher power; you grasp at straws in an attempt to preserve your beliefs against the rampant erosion caused by science. It is you who go against natural reason by denying the truth. Don't misread me, I do respect your position I just disagree with it. At least your post was well written; I've read some terrible posts on the subject in the past.
This is what makes me laugh. Theists think that it's fact that some big invisible spiritual daddy has been around for eternity without anyone creating him, yet the Big Bang and other theories are entirely implausible.
"To those who believe, no proof is necessary. To those who don't, no proof will suffice."
--Quote from another forum.
You are talking as if we were not the realists in this subject. To clear the smoke in your head regarding our, as you frased it, nothing from nothing, I will reform it to everything from something.
The view we (I) have of universe and its creation is incompleted and far from simple, but we only defend what has been showed true by physics, maths and as it always has been, we struggle forward to the answers of all, even it changes science.
It is the teachings of cause and affect that stands behind, humans wishing to understand, and if a god would show up in the middle of it, surely we would take him for the answer. But he or she or what ever it would be is not here. And during the time that the allmighty isn't here I would be glad if you just let the struggle continue as it always has. As I see it, religion is a cause of a search, just like the Big Bang theory. It has just evolved to something alot of people accept without question, and that's just foolish.
A few hundred years ago the earth was flat and the sun cirkled around it, but a few mens disagreement and need to find the true story changed all that. Atheist or not, it should be welcomed to question god. And science when I think about it, since I just want to know the cause of it all.
Truly, is that what you think?
It did say that he is the alpha and the omega.
Lack of evidence towards everything else? But to know what is lacking you need to have something that is complete. What would your basis be that everything else lacks evidence?
merged: 11-22-2005 ~ 04:57pm
"comforting"?
The idea of God is what frightens me. Yet I cannot deny His existence. To know that I have a hidden benefactor whom I will not be able to repay in kind. To live my life, knowing that what I do, no matter how small, no matter how insignificant, will matter in the final tally of things. The idea that he sees what I do scares me for I have not been righteous.
Erosion of Science? If you are referring to its new discoveries, you will note that the Bible contains scientific facts that were only proven hundreds of years after they have been written. I seek the truth. I do not cling to a belief when evidence shows it to be false. But up to now, I see no evidence proving the existence of God to be untrue.
I totally agree with Samu! There are proven evidences of so many things in the Bible, it'd be strange to deny it. Altho I would defend Samu, I'm pretty sure this is an endless debate, so i'll just say that there'll never be enough evidence to prove that God exists, and to believe that God exists is the greatest faith
AH, A man after my own heart. You question, you inquire. It is good not to accept everything that is laid before us. We must search for truth. And you, as you said, would rely on science to know what is true, so be it. Let time be the judge on what is true and what will be proven as untrue.
you know what the 1 major flaw in you argument is? Its the fact that you believe that Christianity is the one true religion, God created this, god created that. Its really kinda pathetic.
I do not belieb in any form of god, HOWEVER, that does not mean that i dont respect the fact that tohers choose to believe and worship who/what they want. I personally cant fathom the concept that there is an almight presence among the universe.
However dont say "oh your just naive", If you can give me any SOLID evidence that there is such a thing as a god and not something from the bible. But concrete eveidence. "they have proof that jesus existed and was cruicified" doenst hold up.
Also a mojor reason people are religious isbcuase they are affraid of the thought of death/afterlife. is the heaven, is there hell. that sort of thing.
The laws of physics, math and in other ways biology and chemistry give solid facts that make seeing the universe easy. Sure the big bang theory is a big hard to grasp and that space is essentially an unlimited space. But how is the theory of a god any easier to grasp.
And for all you people who believe in intelligent design, get over it, its not a new theory of the universe, its essentially another god theory "Some almighty person created this becuase its perfect"
Ive probably babbled on enough and i dont knwo if a answered the question or not.
Cheers
A purpose in life gives one something to live for, work for, and something to hope for. What are you living for? What is your purpose in life? Does life make sense at all without God? You can say "Science is the answer to everything" but science doesn't deliver the truth; what it provides are answers in an attempt to get nearer to truth. Science also cannot explain the existence of each of us as a unique self, nor can it answer such fundamental questions as: Who am I? Why am I here? How did I come to be at a certain place and time? What happens after death? These are all mysteries that are beyond science.
Doesn't all of the evidence in science already point to an Intelligent Designer? Is science enough to answer our questions, unperfect as we are? The question is not "Where is God" but "Where isn't He?" The fact is never the whole truth. You get the whole truth only when you add the ideal and beautiful, to cold fact.
"The spectacle of the universe becomes so much the grander, so much the more beautiful, the worthier of its Author, when one knows that a small number of laws, mostly established, suffice for all moment." Manpertuis
It depends on which religion you are talking about. Some involve working for your salvation, and others teach you that you just have to accept Jesus into your heart for salvation. Some religions are accepted because the people are brainwashed to believe it, some are accepted because people believe that it is the way to salvation, and some are accepted because they teach you the true way to salvation, and that's the journey that man has been going on since the beginning of time. They also answer "Why am I here and Who created me?"-the answers are for God and God. As I see it, I think evolution is a religion as well, because if you don't place your faith in God, you place your faith in nature and matter itself.
About the Big Bang Theory, I find it very confusing how nothing came out of nothing. If you think of God as nothing, then you would think of your mind as nothing, because your mind is a little bit of the spiritual realm. Do you believe that nothing spiritual exists in this world? How would you explain the uniqueness of each person on this Earth, seeing that everybody thinks differently, and has a different personality?
You were made by God and for God-and until byou unterstand that, life will never make sense.
merged: 11-22-2005 ~ 05:34pm
Please note that I respect your decisions for being atheist, but I would like to challenge you in your thinking of why you believe so....besides, this is a "Challenge to the Atheist" thread anyway. ^_^
I believe in god, I am a proud Muslim. I wanted to state the following example in this debate. Excuse my English if it is not proper. Example: During the Prophet Muhammadâs time (PBUH) (who spread Allahâs word of Islam to the world).There lived a scientist that believed in one god (Allah) according to the prophet's teachings. He lived his life with such firm and strong faith.
One day his friends, who do NOT believe in god go up to him and say âhow can you believe in god? Prove that?" the scientists stood there for a second, thought deeply and replied âmeet me by my house in 1 hour". His friends were confused with his answer and thought that he had no argument against them, yet they agreed to meet him by his house in 1 hour.
So, by the scientist's house his friends waited for an hour... then two... then three. Their scientist friend did not show any signs of arrival. But finally out of no where the scientist arrives. As soon as he approaches his friends, they question him with both disappointment and anger âWhy are you late? Didnât you say too meet you by your house in an hour?!"
The scientist replied âwell, I was going to, but as I was walking towards here, I came across an active and strong river. I could not cross the river to get to my house to meet you. But then, suddenly, a tree fell, and after that the wind blew strong and chopped the tree to pieces. Also, the river moved in a way that connected the treeâs wooden pieces together forming a raft! Furthermore, the raft, moved by the currents, came tawards me. So I got on, and it took me across the river. And thatâs why Iâm late.â
His friends where in great shock, and replied by sayingâ are you crazy?! How could such an event occur?â The scientist said âIf you do not even believe a simple raft being formed and created by itself out of nothing, then how do you deny the entire universe having to "occur" and "form" out of nothing with no creator?" later on his friends started getting to Islamâs roots by reading the Holy Quran. Time passed, the scientistâs friends believed in god(Allah).
I do not believe in god how can you belive a thing that is so uncertain(unbelievable). Im a atheist i believe in miracles i believe that there is more between heaven and earth but i dont believe in god. I think its a good thing to believe cuz it makes u strong but i also see it as a weakness for people who dont want to see reality in the eyes. Cuz reality is that we dont know what happens after death and i think that it scares a lot of people its so much easyer to just believe in a religion and think it goes you good i also think religion makes a lot of people narrow minded the only thing they can see is there religion the question is just is it a friendly religion or agresive i believe that there is something after death but i dont think i matters if you have lived after the bible or if you are a mass murderer i think all people comes to a place after death no matter what they have done but the thing that scares me more than death is what happens when the univers ends thats my real fear. can you see your existence end? death is one thing what about whats after death.
I don't fear death, because I know that I will be in Heaven with my Father. ^_^
IMO atheists are as wrong as religious people since they pretend to know something to be true without evidence. Some people just can't comprehend that we don't know everything at this point in time. Maybe they should learn about how it used to be widely accepted that the Earth was the center of the Universe just because they didn't know what we know now.
That's what I've wondered since I was born.
As a result, I've developed into a hybrid between an agnostic and a transcendentalist (but I suppose that's atheist enough to qualify). You cannot prove that there is God, nor can you disprove it. So why bother debating about it, if it won't get you anywhere?
As for the question that you raised, science has developed theories--nothing more than theories, however--about the creation of the universe. The Big Bang, evolution, etcetera, etcetera. Far from being factually proven, certainly--but at least they can claim to be scientific theories, unlike your religion--what can it claim? It is a myth, made stronger only because so many people believe it. But why do they believe it? Because their parents told them to. Because they can't see anything else to believe. But there's nothing that's been proven. For all you know, life could just be one big fact damn coincidence, created by the big bang or some other collision of matter.
But it's not proven, and it can't be. So instead of acting all high-and-mighty, preaching religion as though it were truth, why not spend the time you waste trying to reason for the unprovable on the life you're living right now?
I've found my purpose in life. I want to be happy, and I want to make as many people as possible happy. Instead of worrying about what happens after I die, I simply live the life I'm living now. Instead of asking God why I'm here, I simply enjoy the fact that I AM here, and try to make the most of it. I don't need someone else to tell me why I should live. That's why I believe what I do.
It's not really the idea of a creator that athiests reject, it's the Abrahamic god and the bible(which, according to my knowledge, does conflict with scientific fact if you take it literally.). They tend to believe what is determined through science, instead of things in the bible, and I bet if the entire Bible was changed periodically to match with that of modern science, there would be a lot less athiests around.
Anyway, another thing. I've analized God's behavior through what I've heard about religion, and honestly, I can't imagine worshipping him even if I knew he existed. But really, it depends on what he is truely like. If he excusively favors those of the "right" religion and sends everyone else to hell, then I would definitely not worship him. Well, I would, but not wholeheartedly or willingly, inside my mind I wouldn't even respect him. But if it were more 'do good deeds, follow the ten commandments' sort of thing, then I'd probably not hate him so much. If that were the case, actually, you wouldn't even have to believe in him, you could just be morally just and you would be sent to heaven in the afterlife.
The problem is, the bible in itself is contradictory, I can even bring you some quotes right out of it I found in another thread.(on another forum). It gives different descriptions of god behavior, different descriptions of God's will, different descriptions of lots of things.
Like what? I'm not being nasty, I really want to know. Since I was born and raised Athiest, I hardly know the basics of the bible, and I wouldn't be able to tell if there was proven evidences or not. I know the bible was based on historical events, and then somewhat exaguratted(SP). Is that what you mean?
I know it's the opposite way for me. There's also evidence of evolution by natural selection, the origins of the earth and sun, and the behavior of itself which contradict things said in the bible. Having heard all this first, from my father, it would also be strange for me to become a devout follower of God.
Anyway, I have to go to bed, so night.
Heck no. In fact quite the opposite. There is NO evidence that a God created the universe except the evidence fabricated by religious fundamentalists. Such as yourself I suspect. Also you are gravely misinterpreting the Big Bang theory. Nothing did not sprout from nothing. Only someone who believed that God made the entire universe out of nothing would believe that. What it ACTUALLY postulates is that about 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. As you can see there is no mention of matter being spontaneously created from nothing unlike Genesis which states that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." From what did he create them from? Nothing? Hmm God made something from nothing.....Maybe what you're actually confused about is God?
Hmm are you trying to say that the science that atheists believe in does not show cause? So by believing the universe was made by a big explosion atheists aren't believing in a cause to the effect that we know as the universe? I think it's the people who believe in God that don't conceive effects without cause. Because they do not understand the effect it therefore must have been caused by God. Also I believe Stephen Hawking postulated that there is indeed a beginning and eventual end to time in The Universe in a Nutshell. Also some scientists believe that the universe has always existed but is in a state of flux between expansion and compression. That means that the universe could have been created in a big bang, expanded, then later collapsed and exploded all over again.
These are religious fallcies fed to you by foolish people. There are OVERWHELMING contradictions in the Bible. So maybe a few things were right. WHAT ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG?
Mark 16:17-18 (King James Version)
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This is basically saying that any believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm. (Note: Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and drinking poison.) If you believe this please have a black mamba bite you (one of the most deadly snakes in the world).
You say atheists cling to a false belief. Where the heck is the evidence you have stated that proves it to be false? Perhaps I hid it under my couch next to my Bible...I believe that there is little evidence to prove God doesn't exist but also there is little evidence that he does.
The Bible DOES contain amazing facts about the planet earth, compatible with modern science, which were unknown in ancient times. One verse that is often cited in this regard is Job 26:7, which says that the earth is suspended upon nothing. That is indeed a remarkable insight, coming from an ancient writer. One wonders, however, what to make of it, since the same writer refers to "the pillars of the earth" (9:6, 38:6) and "the pillars of the heavens" (26:11). The idea that the earth rests on a foundation or pillars is also expressed at 1Sa 2:8 and Ps 75:3, 104:5.
The Bible (1Ch 16:30; Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5) declares that the earth does not move, whereas we know for a fact that the earth does move.
According to Ge 1:16-17, the earth was already in existence when the sun and the stars were created, yet scientists have determined that the stars existed billions of years before the earth and that the sun also existed prior to the earth (which revolves around the sun if you didn't know).
According to Ge 1:20-25, birds were in existence before reptiles and insects (things which "creep upon the earth"). But science has established that there were reptiles on the earth 150 million years before there were any birds and that insects go back another 100 million years before reptiles.
According to the Bible snakes eat dust (Ge 3:14) or will eat dust (Isa 65:25). But the fact of the matter is that snakes do not eat dust.
Genesis describes a worldwide flood that covered all the mountains on earth (7:19-20), but such a flood is impossible. Among other problems, there is nowhere from which such an enormous quantity of water (at least a half-billion cubic miles) could have come prior to the flood and there is no place to which it could have gone afterwards.
But let us remember one key difference between science and religion. Religion says that it is always right. That it is perfect and can never be wrong in any aspect. It is immutable as the alledged God Himself. Science however specifically states that it can be wrong. In fact science is constantly changing because new ideas and facts are found constantly.
In the end I find that I can easily find a purpose in life in the absence of God.
Dakara... would be ten times easiler to stick to pure science instead instead of explaining everything in the bible... bible is extremely difficult book to explain.
first thing
lol dunno, hes self existing, maybe he evolved
there are some other could be explainations
http://www.creationscience.com/FAQ219.html#wp1835794
dun go there, science- not religion has already owned the theory, no major scientist would ever even attempt to defend the theory, unless they defend it on religious grounds
yesh, ppl do survive after being bitten by snakes, ppl do cast out devils, ppl do speak in new tongues, and the next thing you gonna say is show me proof? What are we, circus performers? The other thing is the bible also says not to test God, so even if we have the ability to do so, we won't jump off buildings just to show you, God doesn't give christians superhuman powers and an ultimate shield that protects us 24 7, and most supernatural event happen because we were careless, ie by accident, which means we won't have a camera right next to us
In terms of speaking in new tongues and stuff, I think the denomination TJC is more prominent in this kinda stuff and some miracles
http://www.tjc.org/
read if you have time, and please, if you don't believe, then don't believe, no need for insults thank you, I personally won't insult you for you beliefs and I would expect the same.
I think Job there was referring to a metaphor of how the earth shakes like a building shakes when its pillars are moving. btw, Psalms and Job are considered the wisdom books in the bible, they are so deep that theologians are unable to explain it (big blow for us I know) but to explain usually u would have to go back to the hebrew language etc. check for tranlation discreptancies, its a very tedious process and I'm not a theologen so I can't explain everything u throw at me in the bible, especially from the wisdom books. and the prophetic books. But apart from that u can ask about anything else.
1Ch 16:30 Davids Psalms, like poem, you can't take it literally, I can't explain most literally poems that aren't from the bible anyway
thats a hypothesis, has not really been proven, in fact scientific evidence puts some doubts on that. Like can u explain to me how stars are dated?
To date I still don't know how scientist come up with this dates, and I never learnt them. The only thing I learn is carbon dating which scientist themselves admit is inaccurate after 50 000 years, because of the limited traces of C-14
Honesty, if something craws on the ground all day, don't you think some dust will get in their mouths
there are some theories to the flood, the most current explanable theory is the hydroplate theory
www.creationscience.com
note, this theory itself still has many patches to fill (just like evolution), or it would be called a truth otherwise.
Really? if thats so, why are there so many religions? take christianity for an example, so many denominations, and disputes over which on as right, Islam, many branches too, from the goody goody to the bombers. Are they both right? Isn't their some disagreements between muslims themselves?
wow, you must have an IQ of over 300, I'd like to hear your purpose in life. this is a thing that many people can't answer. ie philosophy
((that wasn't my post, but all the same, I have a bone to pick with your reply))
I have never, not once, wondered about the meaning of life. I have also not believed in God since I was five years old. The only reason I did believe in God then was because I went to a Christian school and that's what they told me to believe. By the time I was old enough to think for myself, I decided I would rather life my life the way I wanted to, and not the way a God that couldn't be proven to exist told me to.
I believe that everyone creates their own meaning in life. The people who search for a meaning are the ones that fear they have none--the ones who know better are content to merely live for the moment, make the most of their time on Earth, seek happiness, fall in love, follow their passions, see the world, and never regret anything. That's all I think there is to life. Why wonder about how we got here, or why? We'll never find out, until perhaps after we die. What a terrible waste of life to spend all your time wondering about death. Right now, we're here, and we're alive. You must have something you want to accomplish in life--so why don't you start it? You must have people you love and people who love you, so if you want to spend time with them, spend time with them. If your dream is to go to Paris, start saving your quarters, and go.
The wise men that sit on the top of the mountans, wondering away what the meaning of life is, wonder because life has lost meaning for them. While they grow old, their life slips away, and they will never be able to seek true happiness. No one would have to wonder if they just looked around them. That's what life has for us, it's right HERE. Not in heaven or anywhere else, but right here.
You can't prove God--but you can't disprove him either. Instead of fighting an unwinnable debate, why don't we live the life that's been given us right now?
It's as simple as that. Live to live. Seek happiness. Have no regrets. That's the meaning that life has for me.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive effects with no cause, motion without a mover, a circle without a center, time without eternity.
To be an atheist, one would have to conceive a second without a first, action without energy, thought without thinker, a thing formed from NOthing by NOthing.
To be an atheist, one would have to believe that what is made, exists, but that which made it does not exist. Try applying that proposition to the infinity of the universe!
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You try to use big words. Overall, you make absolutely no sense.
Science explains a ton of things; our origins (evolution), why things work the way they do (physics). It explains enough to be a substitute for religion. Religion, on the other hand, explains enough for others to be a substitute for science.
You have no proof that God exists. There is no proof disproving his existence. You try to question others when you can not answer your questions yourself. You can say "it's God!" while the others can shout "it's Science!". And while you think your answer is correct and worthy, so will the other side.
Acceptance.