Well the minimum wage in the Inited States has not been increased in 9 years( this is one of the longer periods of time in which it has not been increased).

I belive an amendment proposed by Ted Kennedy( Democrat, Mass.) was aproved, it was to increase the countries minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 over a three year period, it needed( i belive) over 50 votes to pass.

Almost all Democrats voted for the bill because they felt this help not just minorties and the youth, but they feel it tis als a middle class issue as well.

The Majorty of Republicans( around 40 some voted against it) they contended that it hurt small bussines owners. And that the only way they would support the bill over all is if overtime pay would be taken away or decreased.( wwhich would make the increase in pay for the middle and por classes null and void)

So do you think increasing the minimum wage is good or do you think it hurts? Do you think increasing the pay of the hourly wage workers is bad or good?

Shinsengumi89

Ps. If anyone has any factual information on the bill other then i have provided, i would be thankful if it was posted.

Also all information i have retained was retained from watching the debate over this subject ibn the Senate on C-Span 2 Live from the Senate, Directly..

Increasing it would be good overall but a 40% increase even over 3yrs will put alot of small business out of business while the larger businesses will just cut there workforce. I'm thinking the jump shold be alot more gradual. say over a decade. and more like 20% to 25% instead of 40%. People complain about jobs being outsourced to other countries, well one of the reasons is the expense of doing that same job here and they want to increase that cost. A small increase is warranted to deal with normal inflation but 40% is not.

Thanks Mnementh for your comments, but infact, this is partially to keep up with inflation, also Ted kennedy presented a few studies that overwelming showed that increasing the minumum wage does not put small bussines out of bussines, in fact, the likelyhood was that in states that raised there mnimum wage small bussiness grew.

Also 85% of the owners that were asked, said that they felt it would have no major effect on their small bussines,.

An after study was done, and it also proved that raising the minimum wage in that state did not affect the states small bussines at all in any major ways,

to add the reason why this is partially as fory percent increase is because unlike the past adminastration s, in the last 9 years the minumum wage has not been increase so instead of increaseing it once every four years or five by 20% it is now fourty percent every 9 years.

Shinsengumi89

Again though i'm glad you belive that the minimum wage should be increased, and please keep posting!

God, everything related to money is always a big issue in society. Well, minimum wages, theyre really complex; the thing is that if minimum wages are increased, there might be more employees getting fired (i believe its called personnel reduction?), but if it keeps the same, life'll just get harder for the lower classes... uhhh i wouldn't know what to do if i could control these things...

It would be nice for minorites and younger workers....especially in big cities. In Wisconsin, the minimum wage is $6.25

If you raise the minimum wage, all your going to do is stifle the job market. Employers will not want to hire more people, and they might cut existing staff in order to meet the new pay.

And higher wage earners will be the first to be cut. That means that if you've been at the job for years, and are earning a higher wage, you will be cut as a means of controlling costs, because it's easier to pay more newbies than it is to pay those higher up in the ranks.

As i said earlier, thats been proved incorrect in studies. In fact a few moderate Republicas agreed with the Ted Kenndey amendment, but you have your opinion.

You have your "Studies", and I was there nine years ago when the minimum wage was increased last time. And my company cut 20% of the employees to meet costs when the minimum wage went up.

Well your company, should cut there top employees( if they make 100,000s of dollars) pay a little, you know so the down trodden can have some. Like Robin Hood.

And i'm not talking about Auto Manufacturs( they pay to much to everyone).

Quote by Shinsengumi89ut infact, this is partially to keep up with inflation, also Ted kennedy presented a few studies that overwelming showed that increasing the minumum wage does not put small bussines out of bussines, in fact, the likelyhood was that in states that raised there mnimum wage small bussiness grew.
Also 85% of the owners that were asked, said that they felt it would have no major effect on their small bussines,

OK my next question is what they consider a small business. Remember that there are businesses out there that rely on keeping their costs as low as possible and do not make much profit to begin with. This sort of move risks putting them into the red and out of business or forcing them to let people go. What are the assumptions in these studies and what cross-section of businesses did they poll because I can probably perform a similar study that says just the opposite. You know the old saying "Statistics don't lie but all statistcians are liars" never is that the most true than when you mix in politics (thats regardless of party)

Quote by Shinsengumi89An after study was done, and it also proved that raising the minimum wage in that state did not affect the states small bussines at all in any major ways,

Which state? one of the high income states or one of the lower income states?

I respect your opinion on the matter but I'll need alot more to convince me that that much of a hike is justifiable and is not mostly political.

I don't know it might have been Wisconsin( it was a state that had voted to raise its own minimum wage) remember i got all myi nformation from a Senate Debate, so i'm going off memory, folk.

There exists an idea that a minimum wage actually prevents those at the "bottom of the barrel" from getting jobs, because a minimum wage prevents them from offering to work for a wage below a certain point. (This sort of ties in with the stifling of the job market mentioned above.) Also, since businesses are now forced to pay more, they often seek to hire workers who are more skilled; this prevents the same "bottom of the barrel" group from gaining the skills necessary to be desirable for employment.

You must also consider that there are jobs that aren't actually worth paying more than a certain amount for to a business; if the minimum wage rises high enough, businesses are simply encourages to either outsource the jobs or rely increasingly on automation.

In addition, there are theorists who believe that the minimum wage is actually a self-destructive existance, because it actually *causes* inflation. Their logic is as follows (simplified):

businesses pay more money to workers --> increased expenses
people are paid more money --> people have more money to spend
increased expenses + people have more money to spend --> businesses raise prices
higher prices = higher cost of living --> minimum wage must rise
repeat ad nauseum

So, um, yeah. The minimum wage probably isn't a good idea. I'd even go as far as to suggest that the only reason the negative effects of the minimum wage haven't been decisively "proven" is that the minimum wage is usually too low to generate those effects in a noticable amount.

Quote by Shinsengumi89Well your company, should cut there top employees( if they make 100,000s of dollars)

The people in my company who make $100,000 or more are the owners, and they're certainly not going to fire themselves.

But they will terminate those who earn $20,000 or more a year when minimum wage goes up. Mind you, most of the people who work for us are either single parents or college students.

Im glad someone made this thread-and it was none of than Shin huh? lol

Well, i do firmly believe that their should be an increase on the minimum wage-here in Ohio its $5.15 i believe...thats hardly enough to pay for a place and minimal things such as food, some utilities and such even if you have a full-time job...its really sad... Also, i think they should increase minimum wage because eveything else seems to be going up-yet minimum wage is not? I think its unfair and eventually, if it continues, many people will be screwed-i also feel sorry for those people who have to drive fairly far just to get to their jobs while the gas prices are as heavy as they are.

Nope, not at all, businesses are running away from the US fast enough already. This way, even fast food'll be outsourced. They'll make like, little kiosks that take your orders, zap it over to India, and then the Indians send back the orders for the two cooks from there, no other personnel in the store.

Bweb i din't mean cut in the sense of job, i ment lower there own wages, but lets say someone makes a million dollars, that person cuts there wage buy 15,000 that 15,000 now allows lower workers more money.( i probably am not being clear right now, i'm somewhat tired) now in a small bussiness this dosen't work, but in a large company that has multiple multimilionaire to billionaries it could easily work

To another person, outsourcing is a problem, but Senator Byron Dorgan( D North Dakotat), has proposed numerous forms of legilation that would stop the exporting of compaines and jobs to other countries depending if the compaiy started in america, it would bassicly penalize a company for outsourcing the jobs. And maybe make it illegal.

Ah but they had better be careful with that since there are now many major (employing >100,000 people) US based companies that have worldwide operations, foreign employees, and contracts with foreign governments that would possibly be violated if something like what Dorgan is proposing comes to pass. Not too mention its kind of an isolationist view in a way. Also those major companies back some of the most powerful lobbies in D.C.

I fully agree as it seems very isolanioist, but you know i'm all for world trading just not NAFTA and CAFTA,( Clinton, Tsk Tsk)

Well, Minimum wage in the U.S was originally designed to prevent exploitation of workers in 1938, and now, I assume Sen. Kennedy wants to do so to improving the spending powers of the working class. However, in my mind, such a power should be left to the local government. This is mainly because national policy are often inflexible and difficult to change/adapt based on the environment and the time, and thus, a national policy would be much less effective versus state/city policies. And plus, how much benefit will raising the Minimum wage have especially when most people who gets paid are part-time jobs? (link below is a testimony before House of Rep. on M.W.) {http://www.heritage.org/Research/Labor/tst042904a.cfm.} Businesses are designed to make money, and when they have to spent more, they will probably either cut services such as job training or eliminate the job altogether. I agree with Mnemeth on this, the Minimum wage should be increased, but not as much as Kennedy proposed.

Furthermore, people who get paid $100,000 (this is actually not that much for a manager) are competent people who can make businesses money. As a result, companies compete for these people and thus they have a much higher salary. And how much money will you need for an actual difference in employer salary? Only a handful of people (less than 100) will have to cut their salary for lets say (100,000+)? By your 15,000 per person standard, each employee will ONLY get $15 more a year.....

Sen. Dorgan head the Democratic Policy Committee & Indian Affairs, not any committees that has more direct influence on commerce and economics. (he kind of does on his subcommittees, but you need to look at those and decide if it counts or not) His policy to stop outsource is not only outlandish but simply irrational. And frankly, that's why most of his various forms of legislation to "stop" outsourcing has NO COSPONSORS. (I don't know which exact bill you are talking about, so check for yourself) Start another thread on outsourcing if you like, that's another topic.

I rather agree with Rebel actually. Minium wage is a rather flawed concept. Different jobs require different amounts of "labor" under different circumstances. Let's me try a complicated example. Ok, say you are a small business owner. You run a non-chain bookstore in a moderate sized town. Your shop was established several years ago and is protected from chain-store competition because you are located in a historic area. You have three full-time assistants and you employ several person's part-time durring busy times like Christmas. If minium wage is raised you will likely be affected negatively because you will need to pay your help more, but your amount of business will not be increased proportionately. You can't do with less help to serve your customer base and you can't really change the type of employees you hire because the job has specific requirements. This is one example of how a small business might be affected negatively. There are however other more obvious problems with minimum wage. First of all, is it really appropriate to say that a person cannot work for less than a certain amount if they are willing to? Think about it this way. If an amount of money is unacceptable, the potential employees will not take the position. This is probably why day-labor exists. People are willing to work for less money than the government believes is necessary to cover cost of living. It is hard to say that all sales clerks in a specific area should be making at least this much without forcing the meritocracy out of the work place. If everyone must be paided the same regardless of work, then companies can only afford smaller rewards for the ethical and devoted employees. This is a lot more complicated than my little examples seem to suggest, but I'm tired and I can tell I'm not explaining myself well. Maybe I'll try again later...

I am for the increase of the minimum wage increase. At lease, make it a "living wage" to $8 per hour. Of course, depending on the job, the skill required to do the job. Hell, here in the "Great State of Ohio", the state minimum wage is not $5.15 per hour, but $4.25 per hour and you have the businesses (small and medium, do I hear large, too ?) screaming. It's been a while since the National Minimum Wage was increased.

Of course, when the wages go up, you can betcha the prices have gone up. (Energy, food, consumable products, etc.) Yes, those have gone and to add insult, the Federal Reserve has raise the "Prime Lending Rate 17 times ! Correct me if I am wrong (6.25% ! That is what the FED charges the largest banks-- 6.25% . Then the largest banks will charge each other and larger customers 6.25% plus their fees. By the time you and I want to borrow $$$$ from the bank, well, get ready to be "Finacially Boinked in the Wallet !"

Of course, dealing with finacial matters is never EASY.

In my opinion raising the minimum wage wouldn't do much good. This would give managers an incentive to cut down their workforce because they would have to meet the requirements of actually paying their workers more. I used to work a minimum wage job so I've been there. I've seen illegal immigrants go to my old workplace without providing my boss proper documentation so that they could make a few bucks. Outsourcing work to countries outside of our borders is not uncommon these days. The reason why the U.S. is having such a large influx of cheap workers is so that common services can be rendered at more affordable prices to the rest of the population. I hope I'm making this clear enough... If you've got questions, lemme know. I always like keeping myself on my toes...

I think the minimum wage should be raised. Here in WA, the minimum wage is raised every year just after the new year, and it does help. It's based on the cost of living, I think. I believe it ot be good because it helps the workers. People don't want to work for someone that's going to pay them really low.

Raising the minimum wage for any reason other than to keep up with inflation is just completely unnecessary. The economy will simply correct itself. You could raise the minimum wage a hundred dollars and in three months it'd be the equivalent to 5.15. If the goverment wants to help minimum wage workers, the best thing they can do is adopt a policy to all businesses to grow rather than mandate an increased minimum wage. This causes downsizing until inflation reduces the wage increase to the equivalent to its previous value. Minimum wage increase is just a simple economic policy politicians can adopt to appear concerned about the lower-middle class.