This could be a sensitive issue (or crazy) to
some people so this is a warning as not to read it if you think
so
I've always been thinking, there IS a God and He created cavemen instead. Then
they evolved to humans. I mean, why is it not possible? Then science and faith
can be one and whole. This can also explain the doubts that some of us have
always been thinking. Man are not perfect and they could misinterpret what the
message was actually sent by God. Even in the case of the Pope and other
religion, they caused a matter of it as he said something that is misinterpreted
and this cause a huge misunderstanding. Whatever happened to hear no evil, see
no evil, speak no evil?
Some of you have been asking if there IS a God then why create bad people and
suffering as well? Balance! This is very logical as there is no balance,
everything will topple over. It also takes faith to believe it, so once again,
GOD CREATED SCIENCE! They are one.
This is NOT SCIENCETOLOGY mind
you, sciencetology's a crazy belief that we are desendants of aliens. Not
logical at all.
umm....so u say tht God created caveman...so doesn tht mean he actually exist n
created beings? not
disagreeing though...but caveman evolved into humans...its like saying a
chihuahua changing into a bulldog ahahahahaha
Quote by Kyo26umm....so u say tht God
created caveman...so doesn tht mean he actually exist n created beings? not
disagreeing though...but caveman evolved into humans...its like saying a
chihuahua changing into a bulldog ahahahahaha
lol, why not? the mammoths were the ancestors of elephants. The chihuahua is
created at the same time with the bulldog, so it can't be that the chihuahua is
it's ancestor lol.
I think I get what you all mean (scientology teaches that we descend from
aliens?! Must do research of this... ).
The balance of science/belief makes sense; if God created the world, he had to
use something to make it, so voila, matter is the medium he used. In the caveman
issue, it's kind of like "We live, we learn"; we hunt, find that we
are better as a biped instead of a quadroped, so we can use tools and such (or
am I just seeing this incorrectly?).
I like your idea, though; it's a good balance.
Quote by TrigunPreacherGirlI
think I get what you all mean (scientology teaches that we descend from aliens?!
Must do research of this... ).
The balance of science/belief makes sense; if God created the world, he had to
use something to make it, so voila, matter is the medium he used. In the caveman
issue, it's kind of like "We live, we learn"; we hunt, find that we
are better as a biped instead of a quadroped, so we can use tools and such (or
am I just seeing this incorrectly?).
I like your idea, though; it's a good balance.
Dunno, this idea was already with me since I was a kid. It is a belief that I
thought unites all religion. I mean, there are similarities in each religion
which is to teach us to do good; so that part was probably interpreted rightly.
But the history of it? I'm not too sure then. Ha...your idea is a bit remote but
it makes sense too.
While I am a staunch believer in evolution, I can accept your belief Milkiyo.
(It's people who say that God created everything and nothing has changed since
then that I can't accept.) My belief is that if there is a God, he created
living things with the potential for change. Then he just watches as natural
selection occurs. (Because yes, it is still going on today)
@TrigunPreacherGirl: I'm not quite sure that you've got it right... Your
thoughts seem to mirror those of Lamarck who believed that acquired
characteristics could be passed to offspring. However, Lamarck was mistaken in
this thought. It's not that "we" as cavemen thought that we were
better as a bipid, but that those quadrapeds (our ancestors) who had a mutation
in their DNA so maybe they stood a little straighter were better suited for the
environment so they were able to survive. The quadrapeds didn't just all of a
sudden decide "Let's try walking on two limbs today".
um..isnt this is like... an extremely common belief? i mean, in Islam we believe
that evolution is God's will. it makes sense. the whole "fight"
between science and religion is extremely unnecessary. both fields are yearning
for the same goal! my father told me a when i was young: two men were arguing.
one thought grapes were the best fruit. the other thought angurs(grapes. in
Bengali) were the best fruit. this argument somehow went public and neighboring
people joined in. after many fights a guy who spoke both English and Bengali
told the leaders that they were the same fruit.
merged: 10-27-2006 ~ 09:51pm
what im trying to say is, dont judge or "hate" b4 you know all the
details and facts. do your research and trust people. dont keep a cynical view
on life. this has been a Nahim Mizan (age 15) paid program...
Quote by nhm414um..isnt this is like... an
extremely common belief? i mean, in Islam we believe that evolution is God's
will. it makes sense. the whole "fight" between science and religion
is extremely unnecessary. both fields are yearning for the same goal! my father
told me a when i was young: two men were arguing. one thought grapes were the
best fruit. the other thought angurs(grapes. in Bengali) were the best fruit.
this argument somehow went public and neighboring people joined in. after many
fights a guy who spoke both English and Bengali told the leaders that they were
the same fruit.
merged: 10-27-2006 ~ 09:51pm
what im trying to say is, dont judge or "hate" b4 you know all the
details and facts. do your research and trust people. dont keep a cynical view
on life. this has been a Nahim Mizan (age 15) paid
program...
Yeah, that is what I'm trying to say too. Islam may be right on the evolution is
God's will part but then why is it that God created cavemen still unacceptable
by many? After all, that is evolution too. Yeah, about that story you told, God
created science, which is like anggur and grape.
I think it could be very much possible. Balance is needed in life, if there
wouldn't be suffering we wouldn't need hope nor faith. If we wouldn't have
faith/hope we would see no point in living since you dont have your goals.
Despite the pain bad people causes it is needed.
Of course my sentence will never justify deeds done by bad people just to make
clear. Also evolution is something remarkable in our history. We first have
people that invent things we even have today and that civilisation gets whiped
out. Then were left with older knowledge and later on we ''re-discover'' things
that were once already discovered by older civilisations.
Then you have certain unexplainable events on earth, we have given names to
these occurences wether we call them ghosts or aliens or spirits. They are as of
today un explainable happenings. Is there a god? Are there gifted people?
Questions that also pops up when I'm thinking of this theory of
Milkiyo.
And one of our greatest inventions or rather creation is the bible , koran and
any other book / testament of believe. Its a keystone in evolution since we
still base beliefs on that very old ''artifact'' if I may call it like
that.
Science.. now thats a long topic to discuss, why do we need science.. and is it
good or bad? In my oppinion science is good and bad at the same time. But its
not really the science itself but the people involved with science. This brings
up another important trait of us human beings ---> Characteristics. Why do
''know it all'' character persons get attracted to science? To prove a point.
Not stating all humans that are involved with science are like that but of
course a part of them are. Just like some of them are garbage collecters
etc.
Nonetheless someone must have given the cavemen the power to evolve, to invent
stuff. I think it could be what we call god. Of course no one can give a 100%
fact answer. But is that really needed?
If everything in life, no better yet, if the meaning of life could be answered
in 1 answer, would you even want to know it's answer? I think I wouldn't ... I
would lose my faith/hope. Whats the point of living it out then.
creating cavemen and then evolving them into humans can also be considered a way
of creating humans, right?
well, i share a similar view with ya, Milkiyo, if god exists and god is the
creator of all... wouldn't it also mean that everything that existed (e.g.
science) is a creation of god?
Hmmm, well, this this interesting. We do know that micro evolution exists, but
there's no evidence for macro evolution... Hopefully we also know that there is
a God, and He has indeed created all things. What were Adam and Even like? Were
they "cavemen"? Possilbly, but we'll never know for certain. After
all, the closest "proof" we've seen are those two brothers featured on
the GEICO commercials. Regardless, it should be safe to say that macro evolution
is nonexistent and that micro evolution still goes on to this day... My take
home message to all is to believe the bible first and then lay hold of what
little evidence we have with evolution. You may ask, why faith before evidence?
Well, what's more important? The words of life to save one's soul or a vain
attempt of understanding the evolutionary course of biology that doesn't even
affect one's life in the present (trying to find answers when there are none for
macro evolution in particular)? Just something to consider...
WHAT THE HECK...? the question is so RETRO that it was a hot debate... in my
grandmom's times.
Catholic Church accepts that Evolution and faith don't have necessarely to
oposse each other.
The only problem with the Church comes when the theory gets radically
materialist, such as in the case of Oparin, whom being communist, declared that
his point of view defeated all religion's "superstitions" about
life.
WHEN THE FIRST THEORIES OF EVOLUTION RAISED, they lacked of the key to explain
the changes in animals and plants: THAT KEY WAS DISCOVERED in the 70's: the DNA.
Before that, they were attacked easily because they couldn't explain where lied
the mechanism of heritage.
These days, radicall faiths that take the Bible or the Coran more literally,
like would said no to evolution, and that the tons of fossilized bones that are
at the museums are things of the devil.
What you call "CAVEMEN" were not very different to actual Homo
Sapiens. ONE EXPERIMENT MADE IN CANADA: using only those primitive tools made by
Homo Erectus, Homo Antecessor and Neanthertals, a skilled craftman created a
small cabin, a table, chairs and bed. So, they weren't as stupid and monkey-like
as people believe
Perhaps if you dressed an Homo Erectus like a modern man, and placed him in a
bar, perhaps he'd look ugly, but not very different to the people sorrounding
him.
merged: 10-28-2006 ~ 10:25am
IN THE OTHER HAND: Discovering DNA doesn't mean the unbeatable triumph of
materialim over faith: We knoe DNA, but we CANNOT CREATE LIFE OUT OF NOTHING. We
can't assemble the pieces and make a living animal. We clone out of another
living cell, but nothing more.
Quote by mireya2IN THE OTHER HAND:
Discovering DNA doesn't mean the unbeatable triumph of materialim over faith: We
knoe DNA, but we CANNOT CREATE LIFE OUT OF NOTHING. We can't assemble the pieces
and make a living animal. We clone out of another living cell, but nothing
more.
SO, THE SPARK OF LIFE IS IN GOD'S HANDS
yeah, that's the bad point for the anti-god people; I mean..what creates dna?
Something must've started it.
And there is this question about why there are still monkeys now and they didn't
evolve to human beings? This is because they are created in the later period and
it's not the same with humans.
merged: 10-28-2006 ~ 03:41pm
Quote by RockHoward You may ask, why
faith before evidence? Well, what's more important? The words of life to save
one's soul or a vain attempt of understanding the evolutionary course of biology
that doesn't even affect one's life in the present (trying to find answers when
there are none for macro evolution in particular)? Just something to consider...
well..both could be important but the former is more of a priority. You see,
through research; they can also answer some of the doubts ppl had but then it
could also end up finding nothing at all. Perhaps some mystery are best left as
a mystery.
Retro? You people still believe we evolved from monkeys. Talk about
backwards.
We did not, I repeat, NOT, evolve from monkeys. Our common ancestor, a
monkey-like creature with human traits, evolved through several different paths:
one giving monkeys, one giving us. Get your facts straight, before typing
garbage and attacking strawmen.
Quote by tobiast88Retro? You people
still believe we evolved from monkeys. Talk about backwards.
We did not, I repeat, NOT, evolve from monkeys. Our common ancestor, a
monkey-like creature with human traits, evolved through several different paths:
one giving monkeys, one giving us. Get your facts straight, before typing
garbage and attacking strawmen.
hahaha...some ppl call that a monkey cos it looks like one. Obviously it's a
monkey-like creature. Some ppl think that monkeys should evolve like humans the real monkey I mean.
Argh tobiast88 beat me! *squints at you* Just
to reiterate, HUMANS DID NOT EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS. This is a common misconception
that people have, even college educated persons!
I would also like to address RockHoward's statement that science is not as
"important" as faith. The fact of the matter is that what happened in
the past DOES affect one's life in the present and future. The technology we
have today with DNA sequencing/fingerprinting has helped many people. For
instance we now know what gene to look for in people who are risk for breast
cancer. This allows patients to be diagnosed earlier and treated before their
cancer becomes malignant. (And while that seems somewhat off topic, just think
that without understanding how DNA is able to copy itself and replicate, we
would not be able to save as many lives as we have. Evolution is the product of
mutations in DNA.)
Quote by fireflywishesI would also
like to address RockHoward's statement that science is not as
"important" as faith. The fact of the matter is that what happened in
the past DOES affect one's life in the present and future. The technology we
have today with DNA sequencing/fingerprinting has helped many people. For
instance we now know what gene to look for in people who are risk for breast
cancer. This allows patients to be diagnosed earlier and treated before their
cancer becomes malignant. (And while that seems somewhat off topic, just think
that without understanding how DNA is able to copy itself and replicate, we
would not be able to save as many lives as we have. Evolution is the product of
mutations in DNA.)
I've also been thinking perhaps there is a reason why science exist not only
because mainly people want to prove that there is no god and to find cure and
better understanding; perhaps that it has always been God's will for them to go
into research and science. This creates balance; more new illnesses are found
yet more cures are introduced. This is also a part of evolution of the world I
mean.
If we did not evolve from monkeys then why is there a 2% difference from our DNA
and chimpanzee DNA? They use tools and have a language. Yet we are still somehow
a bit different. I mean, chimps don't build the kind of things we do.
this could "evolve" into a really huge debate among the science
community and the religious people. in a way it makes sense but then again the
bible just starts off with already "perfect" human beings. they dont
mention cavemen in the bible so this is highly illogical
Quote by Ganjamusthis could
"evolve" into a really huge debate among the science community and the
religious people. in a way it makes sense but then again the bible just starts
off with already "perfect" human beings. they dont mention cavemen in
the bible so this is highly illogical
Which is why it is mentioned above that the message could've been misinterpreted
wrongly. they can't just start off as perfect human beings; that is
illogical.
i FIND there is more potential for that than a wholesomely specially selected
race, cause he did say we were created... later... which mean we are possibly
something like an observation result. At the end, he decided to take a little
from the animals that walked the land and add up their little bits of movements
and design and made us... which potentially means He may find particular fancy
in witnessing the agile limbs of mnkeys and chimps...
all in all, it does sound more believable than saying we came from sand and that
we are made according to a superior will that wills us to become rulers of the
earth.
Taking into account my belief and science, I have convinced myself that God has
worked his creation through evolution. One of my dreams to accomplish before I
pass on is to set up a grand unified theory that would seek out connections
among science, theology, philisophy, etc.
That sounds very believable because I have thought about that same thing because
God did create all and everything but I have not come across anything of us
evolving from old cave men in the bible.
This could be a sensitive issue (or crazy) to some people so this is a warning as not to read it if you think so
I've always been thinking, there IS a God and He created cavemen instead. Then they evolved to humans. I mean, why is it not possible? Then science and faith can be one and whole. This can also explain the doubts that some of us have always been thinking. Man are not perfect and they could misinterpret what the message was actually sent by God. Even in the case of the Pope and other religion, they caused a matter of it as he said something that is misinterpreted and this cause a huge misunderstanding. Whatever happened to hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil?
Some of you have been asking if there IS a God then why create bad people and suffering as well? Balance! This is very logical as there is no balance, everything will topple over. It also takes faith to believe it, so once again, GOD CREATED SCIENCE! They are one.
This is NOT SCIENCETOLOGY mind you, sciencetology's a crazy belief that we are desendants of aliens. Not logical at all.
umm....so u say tht God created caveman...so doesn tht mean he actually exist n created beings?
not
disagreeing though...but caveman evolved into humans...its like saying a
chihuahua changing into a bulldog ahahahahaha
lol, why not? the mammoths were the ancestors of elephants. The chihuahua is created at the same time with the bulldog, so it can't be that the chihuahua is it's ancestor lol.
wow thats amazing (lol you always bafle me with your beliefs. That actually mgiht be true...
I think I get what you all mean (scientology teaches that we descend from aliens?! Must do research of this...
).
The balance of science/belief makes sense; if God created the world, he had to use something to make it, so voila, matter is the medium he used. In the caveman issue, it's kind of like "We live, we learn"; we hunt, find that we are better as a biped instead of a quadroped, so we can use tools and such (or am I just seeing this incorrectly?).
I like your idea, though; it's a good balance.
Dunno, this idea was already with me since I was a kid. It is a belief that I thought unites all religion. I mean, there are similarities in each religion which is to teach us to do good; so that part was probably interpreted rightly. But the history of it? I'm not too sure then. Ha...your idea is a bit remote but it makes sense too.
While I am a staunch believer in evolution, I can accept your belief Milkiyo. (It's people who say that God created everything and nothing has changed since then that I can't accept.) My belief is that if there is a God, he created living things with the potential for change. Then he just watches as natural selection occurs. (Because yes, it is still going on today)
@TrigunPreacherGirl: I'm not quite sure that you've got it right... Your thoughts seem to mirror those of Lamarck who believed that acquired characteristics could be passed to offspring. However, Lamarck was mistaken in this thought. It's not that "we" as cavemen thought that we were better as a bipid, but that those quadrapeds (our ancestors) who had a mutation in their DNA so maybe they stood a little straighter were better suited for the environment so they were able to survive. The quadrapeds didn't just all of a sudden decide "Let's try walking on two limbs today".
um..isnt this is like... an extremely common belief? i mean, in Islam we believe that evolution is God's will. it makes sense. the whole "fight" between science and religion is extremely unnecessary. both fields are yearning for the same goal! my father told me a when i was young: two men were arguing. one thought grapes were the best fruit. the other thought angurs(grapes. in Bengali) were the best fruit. this argument somehow went public and neighboring people joined in. after many fights a guy who spoke both English and Bengali told the leaders that they were the same fruit.
merged: 10-27-2006 ~ 09:51pm
what im trying to say is, dont judge or "hate" b4 you know all the details and facts. do your research and trust people. dont keep a cynical view on life. this has been a Nahim Mizan (age 15) paid program...
Yeah, that is what I'm trying to say too. Islam may be right on the evolution is God's will part but then why is it that God created cavemen still unacceptable by many? After all, that is evolution too. Yeah, about that story you told, God created science, which is like anggur and grape.
I think it could be very much possible. Balance is needed in life, if there wouldn't be suffering we wouldn't need hope nor faith. If we wouldn't have faith/hope we would see no point in living since you dont have your goals. Despite the pain bad people causes it is needed.
Of course my sentence will never justify deeds done by bad people just to make clear. Also evolution is something remarkable in our history. We first have people that invent things we even have today and that civilisation gets whiped out. Then were left with older knowledge and later on we ''re-discover'' things that were once already discovered by older civilisations.
Then you have certain unexplainable events on earth, we have given names to these occurences wether we call them ghosts or aliens or spirits. They are as of today un explainable happenings. Is there a god? Are there gifted people? Questions that also pops up when I'm thinking of this theory of Milkiyo.
And one of our greatest inventions or rather creation is the bible , koran and any other book / testament of believe. Its a keystone in evolution since we still base beliefs on that very old ''artifact'' if I may call it like that.
Science.. now thats a long topic to discuss, why do we need science.. and is it good or bad? In my oppinion science is good and bad at the same time. But its not really the science itself but the people involved with science. This brings up another important trait of us human beings ---> Characteristics. Why do ''know it all'' character persons get attracted to science? To prove a point. Not stating all humans that are involved with science are like that but of course a part of them are. Just like some of them are garbage collecters etc.
Nonetheless someone must have given the cavemen the power to evolve, to invent stuff. I think it could be what we call god. Of course no one can give a 100% fact answer. But is that really needed?
If everything in life, no better yet, if the meaning of life could be answered in 1 answer, would you even want to know it's answer? I think I wouldn't ... I would lose my faith/hope. Whats the point of living it out then.
Thats my oppinion about it.
creating cavemen and then evolving them into humans can also be considered a way of creating humans, right?
well, i share a similar view with ya, Milkiyo, if god exists and god is the creator of all... wouldn't it also mean that everything that existed (e.g. science) is a creation of god?
Hmmm, well, this this interesting. We do know that micro evolution exists, but there's no evidence for macro evolution... Hopefully we also know that there is a God, and He has indeed created all things. What were Adam and Even like? Were they "cavemen"? Possilbly, but we'll never know for certain. After all, the closest "proof" we've seen are those two brothers featured on the GEICO commercials. Regardless, it should be safe to say that macro evolution is nonexistent and that micro evolution still goes on to this day... My take home message to all is to believe the bible first and then lay hold of what little evidence we have with evolution. You may ask, why faith before evidence? Well, what's more important? The words of life to save one's soul or a vain attempt of understanding the evolutionary course of biology that doesn't even affect one's life in the present (trying to find answers when there are none for macro evolution in particular)? Just something to consider...
WHAT THE HECK...? the question is so RETRO that it was a hot debate... in my grandmom's times.
Catholic Church accepts that Evolution and faith don't have necessarely to oposse each other.
The only problem with the Church comes when the theory gets radically materialist, such as in the case of Oparin, whom being communist, declared that his point of view defeated all religion's "superstitions" about life.
WHEN THE FIRST THEORIES OF EVOLUTION RAISED, they lacked of the key to explain the changes in animals and plants: THAT KEY WAS DISCOVERED in the 70's: the DNA. Before that, they were attacked easily because they couldn't explain where lied the mechanism of heritage.
These days, radicall faiths that take the Bible or the Coran more literally, like would said no to evolution, and that the tons of fossilized bones that are at the museums are things of the devil.
What you call "CAVEMEN" were not very different to actual Homo Sapiens. ONE EXPERIMENT MADE IN CANADA: using only those primitive tools made by Homo Erectus, Homo Antecessor and Neanthertals, a skilled craftman created a small cabin, a table, chairs and bed. So, they weren't as stupid and monkey-like as people believe
Perhaps if you dressed an Homo Erectus like a modern man, and placed him in a bar, perhaps he'd look ugly, but not very different to the people sorrounding him.
merged: 10-28-2006 ~ 10:25am
IN THE OTHER HAND: Discovering DNA doesn't mean the unbeatable triumph of materialim over faith: We knoe DNA, but we CANNOT CREATE LIFE OUT OF NOTHING. We can't assemble the pieces and make a living animal. We clone out of another living cell, but nothing more.
SO, THE SPARK OF LIFE IS IN GOD'S HANDS
yeah, that's the bad point for the anti-god people; I mean..what creates dna? Something must've started it.
And there is this question about why there are still monkeys now and they didn't evolve to human beings? This is because they are created in the later period and it's not the same with humans.
merged: 10-28-2006 ~ 03:41pm
well..both could be important but the former is more of a priority. You see, through research; they can also answer some of the doubts ppl had but then it could also end up finding nothing at all. Perhaps some mystery are best left as a mystery.
Retro? You people still believe we evolved from monkeys. Talk about backwards.
We did not, I repeat, NOT, evolve from monkeys. Our common ancestor, a monkey-like creature with human traits, evolved through several different paths: one giving monkeys, one giving us. Get your facts straight, before typing garbage and attacking strawmen.
hahaha...some ppl call that a monkey cos it looks like one. Obviously it's a monkey-like creature. Some ppl think that monkeys should evolve like humans
the real monkey I mean.
Argh tobiast88 beat me! *squints at you*
Just
to reiterate, HUMANS DID NOT EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS. This is a common misconception
that people have, even college educated persons!
I would also like to address RockHoward's statement that science is not as "important" as faith. The fact of the matter is that what happened in the past DOES affect one's life in the present and future. The technology we have today with DNA sequencing/fingerprinting has helped many people. For instance we now know what gene to look for in people who are risk for breast cancer. This allows patients to be diagnosed earlier and treated before their cancer becomes malignant. (And while that seems somewhat off topic, just think that without understanding how DNA is able to copy itself and replicate, we would not be able to save as many lives as we have. Evolution is the product of mutations in DNA.)
I've also been thinking perhaps there is a reason why science exist not only because mainly people want to prove that there is no god and to find cure and better understanding; perhaps that it has always been God's will for them to go into research and science. This creates balance; more new illnesses are found yet more cures are introduced. This is also a part of evolution of the world I mean.
If we did not evolve from monkeys then why is there a 2% difference from our DNA and chimpanzee DNA? They use tools and have a language. Yet we are still somehow a bit different. I mean, chimps don't build the kind of things we do.
this could "evolve" into a really huge debate among the science community and the religious people. in a way it makes sense but then again the bible just starts off with already "perfect" human beings. they dont mention cavemen in the bible so this is highly illogical
Which is why it is mentioned above that the message could've been misinterpreted wrongly.
they can't just start off as perfect human beings; that is
illogical.
i FIND there is more potential for that than a wholesomely specially selected race, cause he did say we were created... later... which mean we are possibly something like an observation result. At the end, he decided to take a little from the animals that walked the land and add up their little bits of movements and design and made us... which potentially means He may find particular fancy in witnessing the agile limbs of mnkeys and chimps...
all in all, it does sound more believable than saying we came from sand and that we are made according to a superior will that wills us to become rulers of the earth.
Taking into account my belief and science, I have convinced myself that God has worked his creation through evolution. One of my dreams to accomplish before I pass on is to set up a grand unified theory that would seek out connections among science, theology, philisophy, etc.
That sounds very believable because I have thought about that same thing because God did create all and everything but I have not come across anything of us evolving from old cave men in the bible.