was deleted by a mod, and I felt it is really still very much up to the agile
mind of the viewer by majority to decide if it was far too graphic or
otherwise.
I have replied to the mod regarding the deletion in animepaper as well. But I
hope I may have more than two opinions if it was indeed too much for this site
and its people.
My first say is that, tho it may touch on the subject of sado masochism, it does
not directly reflect its brutality in such, I do not believe a girl being tied
up and slightly dirty and looking frustrated and distressed stands to be counted
straight as raped.
I also do not view the wall was indeed that bad, as there is actually no
particular sexually graphic indication of said sadist and masochistic
expressions. In actual fact there is no showing of parts most sensitive to the
human psyche.
My opinion is that I take on the subject that people dare not explore and just
taking a little bit from the deep mind and subject of the Marquis de Sade and
exploring it in a way that can be slightly related, but I do not conform to its
entirety that takes on the full range of nearly dark ages torture, instead I
toned down to what I deemed as slightly offensive, but not all, to touch on the
more open adult mind, and more imaginative dark resesses of the human
mind.
I took on a subject, I even took the effort to create a slight story, which in
it, also predescribe the notions "it is just the beginning" it is not
yet done.
I do not consider it at all to be really all that much bad, I consider it as
creating a divergence between walls that aim to please and walls that aim to
create a difference.
Have I not take it in such a manner, does it still be considered as a bad wall
simply because of the subject I touched was too much for the simplish mind of
the public who dare not express their opinions through rather more open minded
opinions while not partaking in actual technical and real life situations to
compare against the subject of sado masochism?
I think the wall deserved a second or third opinion, so if the mods would kindly
take time to reconsider what is right and what is wrong without touching on the
subject of how I am considering renouncing rape and rapture, and that I am
teaching bad things to the kids, I would really appreciate that.
I hope that we can all be fair.
merged: 11-06-2006 ~ 02:36pm
Of course.. not like I am expecting any good response...
and out of the 3 walls I saw..I was gonna put this in the hot gallery too D:
:3 lol..I'm not saying that this is bad..I think it's a good wall but maybe the
small kiddies with simple minds will start to imagine too much?
I'm not against the submition of this wall either so I'll leave it to the rest.
Your whole argumentation is based on the principle that MiniTokyo functions as a
democracy. Apparently, you've been dreaming. Moderators decide for the viewers,
in case you didn't notice.
This wallpaper was extremely subjective
and depicting very clearly the scene of a rape. Do not play innocent when your
title is 21 Days of Sodomy. Dare I repeat
myself on the Human Rights and personal liberties we humans have, this was
absolutely not acceptable for the family friendly policy MiniTokyo has.
MT is family friendly? Since when?! Lolz. I must have totally missed something.
You better not say the whole human rights in combination of personal beliefs and
amendments candy-person! I think I've heard that lecture a million times till
now! Gah! Lolz. I agree with that wall as being a little bit on the high R-rated
side you know? Even the title is subjective.
I'm sorry, but I do have to say that I do find it to be offensive. The wall in
itself isn't, since obviously it's not depicting any sort of rape..thought the
story and the title do suggest elsewise and really give a lot to the imagine of
the viewer, which in this case can be a bad thing.
Yes, sodomy is a real thing that happens in this world. Yes, it probably doesn't
hurt to address it. Though, I do have to agree with Candy. MT is SUPPOSE to be
more of aimed for everyone and this isn't necessarly the type of wall that is
fit for everyone. I do, however, agree with your right to complain about it and
I understand as well your point. I just think it's a bit extreme for MT, if
anything the story should be removed and the title changed, then it would be
fine for submitting, but as is, I dunno.
If this doesn't make any sense, PM me and I'll try to type up something tomorrow
when I'm thinking properly. Have a nice day.
Quote by A-10hybridMT is family
friendly? Since when?! Lolz. I must have totally missed something. You better
not say the whole human rights in combination of personal beliefs and amendments
candy-person! I think I've heard that lecture a million times till now! Gah!
Lolz. I agree with that wall as being a little bit on the high R-rated side you
know? Even the title is subjective.
Er... the day MT becomes viewer rated for age 21.... would be the day i spent
time at animepaper more often... it has been for a long time.... although yes
there are instances where some wallpaper is questionable to the meaning of
family-friendly viewing, but it still be viewed and remarked by its artistry
value and not its explicit details.
For Devildude's wallpaper case... the title actually give it away 21 days of
sodomy... a person who understand the meaning of the title might wview it for
the wrong reason... and when viewed... Do you think of it as artistry or the
implication of the title it goes with?
Actually, I'm the person who really deleted your wallpaper, and I can tell you
for a fact that it will not be restored.
The focus of the image is clearly explicit in a sexual manner, and not family
safe in any way. You also have to admit, 21 Days of Sodomy is a rather questionable title.
We have been deleting inappropriate material for a long time now, so I don't see
why it's a surprise that this was deleted.
I have to say that the image itself does strike me as rather too explicit and
suggestive; even more so when combined with the title. It's definitely beyond
the bounds of the family friendly policy.
In a way devildude you had something that might be over the borderlines plus the
title I believe just pushed it over the fence and into the lava. Still
Candy-Chan I sware girl dont get smart I have no clue wth happened to you since
AP and I dont want to know why but try and say things like what Bromithia and
BluSake said instead of making something that my friend here would feel crushed.
But anyway Omni try and put it a little lower and use that probably for
DeviantART haha, anything goes down at deviantart . Sorry
to hear that m8.
It's because it's a woman. If it were a man tied up with barely any skin showing
through tight clothing, we may get different responses. However, society feels
that females subjected to this type of scenario is more brutal. Probably because
it's more likely to happen to a female. Plus your title doesn't really help the
matter as pointed out by a billion other people. What is it with you and half
naked girls anyway?
I don't have anything against it. It doesn't have to be sexual just because
she's tied up. Maybe her rival tied her up because she didn't want her to win
the swimming contest ^-^
CyanideBlizzard and I are having a most interesting conversation that he
wouldn't mind sharing so:
In response to my post above he wrote in my guestbook:
Quote by CyanideBlizzardActually,
I'm sure if a guy was like that, it'd get deleted for the same reasons, not just
because it's a girl. Though, you do state a good point, it being female really
does have a larger impact (at least to me it does), but I personally believe the
outcome would be the same thing. Dunno if you want me to post my opinion, but I
thought I'd let you know my thoughts on it. =S Sorry.
And then I wrote:
Quote by xRedPhoenixLike I said in my
post- If it were a guy we'd get different RESPONSES. I didn't necessarily mean
it wouldn't get deleted. Yes society holds the sacredness of a woman's Chastity at a much higher level
than males'. I mean if a girl sleeps with 5 guys, she's a whore, but if a guy
sleeps with 5 girls, he's a national hero.
(exaggeration...) Somehow the image of a girl tied up is a lot more helpless
thana guy tied up I guess. Would you take a look at my gallery? I USED to have
the frontal view of Elfen Lied's Lucy naked BUT COVERED with brushing and her
own arms (You actually have that scan on your userpage!) in my gallery, but had
been recently deleted. However, the wallpaper of TWO GUYS together, with their
chests bare and nothing covering it remains. I know the upper bodies of males
and females differ, but seriously now... The deleted wall showed nothing sexual
while the wall with two guys clearly are. I doubt then it's friend/family-safe
if the same restrictions apply to male and woman scans/wallpapers.
(Who knows, maybe it'll be deleted later. ^^)
If you wish to read our further discussions (If it ensues) you'll have to visit
our userpage, because I'm a lazy bum. Maybe he should just post here.
Quote by xRedPhoenixI USED to have
the frontal view of Elfen Lied's Lucy naked BUT COVERED with brushing and her
own arms (You actually have that scan on your userpage!) in my gallery, but had
been recently deleted. However, the wallpaper of TWO GUYS together, with their
chests bare and nothing covering it remains. I know the upper bodies of males
and females differ, but seriously now... The deleted wall showed nothing sexual
while the wall with two guys clearly are. I doubt then it's friend/family-safe
if the same restrictions apply to male and woman scans/wallpapers.
(Who knows, maybe it'll be deleted later. ^^)
You have a good point there. It's easy to say personally I wouln'dt make the
decision of keeping a naked female with no sexual intention compared ecchi male
scan, but that's a quite lame answer to escape the question.
I think it's a good thing to remember us about our different social visions of
the sexes. But on this matter it's pretty clear that female or male, this was
clearly not acceptable.
unfortunatly the power are getting the the mods heads, there totely forgeting
why people post here and the joys of submisstions. It's gotten to the point
where you've forgotten the basics of why were all here mods. To have fun, but
now there just looking for htings to delete because it doesn't "meet"
there standards, i feel you pain man. i to have suffered from there frenzies (of
course there are "some" reasonable mods..... i wont point fingures
though....
Alright, pretending I even dared to assume there is a form of democracy in
"the art is in the eye of the beholder" I guess I am wrong.
So what say since your emphasis largely and whatever the manner seem to point
that as long as the wall has a girl more privately covered and taken a less
suggestive title it is ok?
Cause it does to me that you are saying, "change the title to family
friendly by cutting out the really suggestive part" and then "in any
case, if the wall was portraying NOT A FEMALE BEING SUBJECTED to abuse, it can
be accepted"
I was planning to take it a step further, but I guess I was wrong to assume
that, nonetheless, don't you agree that wallpapers should be seen as such, an
anime, a form of escapism, a form of presentation, I believe if the majority
feels that it is offensive, the best thing was to really avoid it rather than
criticising that I am not observant of human right which is taking things far
too much.
I post here this:
ah, but was it I who took it as a part of what I created and channel in a way
that I am "promoting violence"
are you saying I cannot potray what I seen through a replication of the seeming
image of a person being hurt and human rights?
Are you also saying that pretending if I am a famed artist and that I am
presenting an exhibition on child abuse with lots of pictures of children being
sodomized and defiled, that I am actually cheering it to go on?
I don't think so, mind I tell you.
I certainly do not enjoy looking at women getting tortured, or Jews getting
tortured by Nazis in world war 2 in a graphic massacre of several millions of
innocents, I prefer peace.
But I certainly do not conform that say, I use a readily available media (scan)
to potray a scene of fear and dungeon like world, and that it is though
suggestive, meant to present a visual aspect of the wallpaper maker, not to
embrace the negativity of human ugliness.
Not once did I actually stated I am embracing that, I did however, said I
challenged the norm of people walling all nice and happy girls and guys, and
that I am trying for something that people dared not undertake.
All because I feel no shame in trying something new.
Like what Red and Jason has said, it is cruelly graphic if it was a woman,
featuring a man however, seems to indicate I have no malicious intent to promote
the negativity of mankind's darkest thoughts, while it seems, this controversial
wall of mine generated a significant degeneralizing response, also is under fire
from those who view it as carrying a moral attack.
I have clearly said that it doesn't, but if one views it as so, I guess it is no
choice.
Oh well.
merged: 11-07-2006 ~ 01:23pm
Quote by bromithiaActually, I'm the
person who really deleted your wallpaper, and I can tell you for a fact that it
will not be restored. The focus of the
image is clearly explicit in a sexual manner, and not family safe in any way.
You also have to admit, 21 Days of Sodomy is a rather questionable title.
We have been deleting inappropriate material for a long time now, so I don't see
why it's a surprise that this was deleted.
Thank you, that is quite a good response, I am glad that it can be understood in
a manner that I do not have to drag a lawyer to explain what human rights and
not is, if it was so, I can understand.
Your colleague Ms Candy feels that I have been ignoring the way I choose to
promote female violence, which I swear if there is a God, that I did not choose
in any way or even try or think for a moment of that, I choose to portray a
visual image of the novel I read in an anime sort of way.
I believe at least if that was felt as inappropriate, that I can understand.
I am in no means surprised, it was a matter of time, I simply choose to try my
luck here as well as in AP (which as you can see, is still there)
You seem to be forgetting that mature content is no longer allowed on this site.
It is nothing more than that single, simple reason. Just because an image
containing mature content may be beautiful and/or have a profound meaning, or is
intended to evoke deep emotion in the viewer does not mean it is above the
rules. It would not be fair to allow your wallpaper to stay and delete others of
a similar theme. This is not about
anyone trying to say you are a bad person for making a controversial wallpaper
or attempting to stifle your creativity. A single piece of art can evoke utter
disgust in one person, and another could claim it is the most elegant thing ever
created, but the aesthetic ideals of other members and moderators are irrelevant
because of the site policy. Rules must be consistently and fairly enforced. No
matter which way you look at it this wallpaper features mature content, and
since that is currently not allowed in MT it was removed. The moderator who
deleted your wallpaper may have even liked it a great deal, but that would not
matter because it is the moderators' job to enforce policy, even if they
personally don't agree with it.
I don't see why this is an issue. If fully clothed women in an innocent pose
with nipples visible through their clothing are removed, of course this would
be. AP is more lenient in regard to ecchi and suggestive material, so there is
no point in saying "But they let me
do it!" because it is a completely different site with different rules.
i dont know the picture itself didnt seem very suggestive to me. i got the
original scan showing the whole body. he cut off the broom and only showed her
hands tied. i have seen countless pics on this site that show a girl tied up and
got the ok. a girl with tied hands does not equal rape. the title is the only
thing i thought would be suggestive.
The recent deletion of my wallpaper
21 Days of Sodomy by Devildude
can be seen here:
http://www.animepaper.net/gallery/wallpapers/Omnidevil/item42983/
was deleted by a mod, and I felt it is really still very much up to the agile mind of the viewer by majority to decide if it was far too graphic or otherwise.
I have replied to the mod regarding the deletion in animepaper as well. But I hope I may have more than two opinions if it was indeed too much for this site and its people.
My first say is that, tho it may touch on the subject of sado masochism, it does not directly reflect its brutality in such, I do not believe a girl being tied up and slightly dirty and looking frustrated and distressed stands to be counted straight as raped.
I also do not view the wall was indeed that bad, as there is actually no particular sexually graphic indication of said sadist and masochistic expressions. In actual fact there is no showing of parts most sensitive to the human psyche.
My opinion is that I take on the subject that people dare not explore and just taking a little bit from the deep mind and subject of the Marquis de Sade and exploring it in a way that can be slightly related, but I do not conform to its entirety that takes on the full range of nearly dark ages torture, instead I toned down to what I deemed as slightly offensive, but not all, to touch on the more open adult mind, and more imaginative dark resesses of the human mind.
I took on a subject, I even took the effort to create a slight story, which in it, also predescribe the notions "it is just the beginning" it is not yet done.
I do not consider it at all to be really all that much bad, I consider it as creating a divergence between walls that aim to please and walls that aim to create a difference.
Have I not take it in such a manner, does it still be considered as a bad wall simply because of the subject I touched was too much for the simplish mind of the public who dare not express their opinions through rather more open minded opinions while not partaking in actual technical and real life situations to compare against the subject of sado masochism?
I think the wall deserved a second or third opinion, so if the mods would kindly take time to reconsider what is right and what is wrong without touching on the subject of how I am considering renouncing rape and rapture, and that I am teaching bad things to the kids, I would really appreciate that.
I hope that we can all be fair.
merged: 11-06-2006 ~ 02:36pm
Of course.. not like I am expecting any good response...
and out of the 3 walls I saw..I was gonna put this in the hot gallery too D:
:3 lol..I'm not saying that this is bad..I think it's a good wall but maybe the small kiddies with simple minds will start to imagine too much?
I'm not against the submition of this wall either so I'll leave it to the rest.
Your whole argumentation is based on the principle that MiniTokyo functions as a democracy. Apparently, you've been dreaming. Moderators decide for the viewers, in case you didn't notice.
This wallpaper was extremely subjective and depicting very clearly the scene of a rape. Do not play innocent when your title is 21 Days of Sodomy. Dare I repeat myself on the Human Rights and personal liberties we humans have, this was absolutely not acceptable for the family friendly policy MiniTokyo has.
MT is family friendly? Since when?! Lolz. I must have totally missed something. You better not say the whole human rights in combination of personal beliefs and amendments candy-person! I think I've heard that lecture a million times till now! Gah! Lolz. I agree with that wall as being a little bit on the high R-rated side you know? Even the title is subjective.
I'm sorry, but I do have to say that I do find it to be offensive. The wall in itself isn't, since obviously it's not depicting any sort of rape..thought the story and the title do suggest elsewise and really give a lot to the imagine of the viewer, which in this case can be a bad thing.
Yes, sodomy is a real thing that happens in this world. Yes, it probably doesn't hurt to address it. Though, I do have to agree with Candy. MT is SUPPOSE to be more of aimed for everyone and this isn't necessarly the type of wall that is fit for everyone. I do, however, agree with your right to complain about it and I understand as well your point. I just think it's a bit extreme for MT, if anything the story should be removed and the title changed, then it would be fine for submitting, but as is, I dunno.
If this doesn't make any sense, PM me and I'll try to type up something tomorrow when I'm thinking properly. Have a nice day.
The title said it all...
Er... the day MT becomes viewer rated for age 21.... would be the day i spent time at animepaper more often... it has been for a long time.... although yes there are instances where some wallpaper is questionable to the meaning of family-friendly viewing, but it still be viewed and remarked by its artistry value and not its explicit details.
For Devildude's wallpaper case... the title actually give it away 21 days of sodomy... a person who understand the meaning of the title might wview it for the wrong reason... and when viewed... Do you think of it as artistry or the implication of the title it goes with?
Actually, I'm the person who really deleted your wallpaper, and I can tell you for a fact that it will not be restored. The focus of the image is clearly explicit in a sexual manner, and not family safe in any way. You also have to admit, 21 Days of Sodomy is a rather questionable title.
We have been deleting inappropriate material for a long time now, so I don't see why it's a surprise that this was deleted.
I have to say that the image itself does strike me as rather too explicit and suggestive; even more so when combined with the title. It's definitely beyond the bounds of the family friendly policy.
In a way devildude you had something that might be over the borderlines plus the title I believe just pushed it over the fence and into the lava. Still Candy-Chan I sware girl dont get smart I have no clue wth happened to you since AP and I dont want to know why but try and say things like what Bromithia and BluSake said instead of making something that my friend here would feel crushed. But anyway Omni try and put it a little lower and use that probably for DeviantART haha, anything goes down at deviantart
. Sorry
to hear that m8.
-Jason-
It's because it's a woman. If it were a man tied up with barely any skin showing through tight clothing, we may get different responses. However, society feels that females subjected to this type of scenario is more brutal. Probably because it's more likely to happen to a female. Plus your title doesn't really help the matter as pointed out by a billion other people. What is it with you and half naked girls anyway?
I don't have anything against it. It doesn't have to be sexual just because she's tied up. Maybe her rival tied her up because she didn't want her to win the swimming contest ^-^
CyanideBlizzard and I are having a most interesting conversation that he wouldn't mind sharing so:
In response to my post above he wrote in my guestbook:
And then I wrote:
If you wish to read our further discussions (If it ensues) you'll have to visit our userpage, because I'm a lazy bum. Maybe he should just post here.
You have a good point there. It's easy to say personally I wouln'dt make the decision of keeping a naked female with no sexual intention compared ecchi male scan, but that's a quite lame answer to escape the question.
I think it's a good thing to remember us about our different social visions of the sexes. But on this matter it's pretty clear that female or male, this was clearly not acceptable.
unfortunatly the power are getting the the mods heads, there totely forgeting why people post here and the joys of submisstions. It's gotten to the point where you've forgotten the basics of why were all here mods. To have fun, but now there just looking for htings to delete because it doesn't "meet" there standards, i feel you pain man. i to have suffered from there frenzies (of course there are "some" reasonable mods..... i wont point fingures though....
Alright, pretending I even dared to assume there is a form of democracy in "the art is in the eye of the beholder" I guess I am wrong.
So what say since your emphasis largely and whatever the manner seem to point that as long as the wall has a girl more privately covered and taken a less suggestive title it is ok?
Cause it does to me that you are saying, "change the title to family friendly by cutting out the really suggestive part" and then "in any case, if the wall was portraying NOT A FEMALE BEING SUBJECTED to abuse, it can be accepted"
I was planning to take it a step further, but I guess I was wrong to assume that, nonetheless, don't you agree that wallpapers should be seen as such, an anime, a form of escapism, a form of presentation, I believe if the majority feels that it is offensive, the best thing was to really avoid it rather than criticising that I am not observant of human right which is taking things far too much.
I post here this:
ah, but was it I who took it as a part of what I created and channel in a way that I am "promoting violence"
are you saying I cannot potray what I seen through a replication of the seeming image of a person being hurt and human rights?
Are you also saying that pretending if I am a famed artist and that I am presenting an exhibition on child abuse with lots of pictures of children being sodomized and defiled, that I am actually cheering it to go on?
I don't think so, mind I tell you.
I certainly do not enjoy looking at women getting tortured, or Jews getting tortured by Nazis in world war 2 in a graphic massacre of several millions of innocents, I prefer peace.
But I certainly do not conform that say, I use a readily available media (scan) to potray a scene of fear and dungeon like world, and that it is though suggestive, meant to present a visual aspect of the wallpaper maker, not to embrace the negativity of human ugliness.
Not once did I actually stated I am embracing that, I did however, said I challenged the norm of people walling all nice and happy girls and guys, and that I am trying for something that people dared not undertake.
All because I feel no shame in trying something new.
Like what Red and Jason has said, it is cruelly graphic if it was a woman, featuring a man however, seems to indicate I have no malicious intent to promote the negativity of mankind's darkest thoughts, while it seems, this controversial wall of mine generated a significant degeneralizing response, also is under fire from those who view it as carrying a moral attack.
I have clearly said that it doesn't, but if one views it as so, I guess it is no choice.
Oh well.
merged: 11-07-2006 ~ 01:23pm
Thank you, that is quite a good response, I am glad that it can be understood in a manner that I do not have to drag a lawyer to explain what human rights and not is, if it was so, I can understand.
Your colleague Ms Candy feels that I have been ignoring the way I choose to promote female violence, which I swear if there is a God, that I did not choose in any way or even try or think for a moment of that, I choose to portray a visual image of the novel I read in an anime sort of way.
I believe at least if that was felt as inappropriate, that I can understand.
I am in no means surprised, it was a matter of time, I simply choose to try my luck here as well as in AP (which as you can see, is still there)
You seem to be forgetting that mature content is no longer allowed on this site. It is nothing more than that single, simple reason. Just because an image containing mature content may be beautiful and/or have a profound meaning, or is intended to evoke deep emotion in the viewer does not mean it is above the rules. It would not be fair to allow your wallpaper to stay and delete others of a similar theme. This is not about anyone trying to say you are a bad person for making a controversial wallpaper or attempting to stifle your creativity. A single piece of art can evoke utter disgust in one person, and another could claim it is the most elegant thing ever created, but the aesthetic ideals of other members and moderators are irrelevant because of the site policy. Rules must be consistently and fairly enforced. No matter which way you look at it this wallpaper features mature content, and since that is currently not allowed in MT it was removed. The moderator who deleted your wallpaper may have even liked it a great deal, but that would not matter because it is the moderators' job to enforce policy, even if they personally don't agree with it.
I don't see why this is an issue. If fully clothed women in an innocent pose with nipples visible through their clothing are removed, of course this would be. AP is more lenient in regard to ecchi and suggestive material, so there is no point in saying "But they let me do it!" because it is a completely different site with different rules.
i dont know the picture itself didnt seem very suggestive to me. i got the original scan showing the whole body. he cut off the broom and only showed her hands tied. i have seen countless pics on this site that show a girl tied up and got the ok. a girl with tied hands does not equal rape. the title is the only thing i thought would be suggestive.