I did a search and didn't find any similar thread, if there is, moderators, please take the most apporiate action.

I wonder what are your viewpoints of my viewpoint?

As many of us know, most parents these days blamed violent video games, movies, anime etc. for making their children violent or that their children are picking up negative influences from such media content. As such, many of these parents are discouraging their children from watching violents movies and playing violent video games, for they see that such media content teaches the ideas that violence is a way to solve problems, and is a good thing. To add on, some of these parents are trying to ban such violent media content.

However, I have noticed that there is another source of such negative influences that the parents had missed and even worst, think that they are good. The source, fairy tales and children stories. I will further explain my point.

Whenever I think about fairy tales and children stories, among them, the 'images' of handsome princes and knights slaying (in simpler terms, killing) dragons, giants, villians, witches, wizards, ogres etc. and then living happily ever after with the beautiful princess. From my inference, stories that follow such a story line contain the following negative values.

#1) Handsome = good, Ugly = bad, evil. Have you ever noticed that the Princes, Knights, heros are always described as handsome, good looking while the evil villians are always ugly?

#2) Violence is the way to solve problems. The Prince had to save the Princess in the tower, however, a dragon is guarding the tower, the prince bravely fought and killed the dragon. and lived happily ever after with the princess.

#3) Violent content. In some of the popular fairy tales, the villians are found to employ some violent and bad tecniques. The dragon burnt the villagers, arson. "Fee, fi, fo fum! I smell the blood of an Englishmen; Be he alive, or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread!" Peseus cuts off the head of Medusa.

(it makes me wonder why the slaying of demons and orcs in Diablo and Warcraft bad while the slaying of demons and ogres in fairy tales good.)

While most other fairy tales and children stories teaches moral values and are not like those that I mentioned aboved, stories that i mentioned aboved are among the popular ones.

From that, i believed that the actual reason why kids these days are becoming violent, is not entirely because of violent video games and movies but also partially, due to the fact that young kids are already exposed to such content through such fairy tales and worst of all, told that they (the stories) are good.

*However, my stand on violent video games and movies is that they are not exactly bad, its just the the kids lack parental guidance.

merged: 01-27-2007 ~ 02:20pm
A friend of mine had commented that the PowerPuff Girls also contain negative values.
#1) The are practically bashing up their enemies in most episodes.
#2) gender bias. While the girls are made up of suger, spice and everything nice + chemical X, the Rowdy Ruff boys were made up of nail clippings, pubic hair, snails and were created in a toilet bowl.

Fairy tales does indeed contain violence, and quite often sexual warnings too. But fairy tales have and important part to play in raising children.

A couple of months ago, I finished reading a little funny book, "The science of the Discworld II: The Globe" by T. Pratchett, I. Stewart & J. Cohen. In this book, a mix between a novel and scientific stuff, the authors explain why we should not be called "homo sapiens" but "pan narrans," "storytelling apes." We keep on telling stories. Some are called tales, others stories, history and so on. And these tales, along with other rites of passage are parts of what you may call a "make a human" kit.

Tales are useful in carrying messages to children in funny, easy to remember ways. Such stories are rooted in our societies. Parents repeat them generations after generations. They contain warnings, rules of life in a society and so on. They explain in a rather nice way what people are expected to do or not to do. They carry some kind of old wisdom and so on.

Now, I guess that one of big differences between these stories and video games is the role of the children. In stories, they have a mostly passive role: they listen. In video games, they usually have a much more active role. Otherwise, they loose and it sucks. Note that it usually gets really boring to look at someone else playing a game without doing anything else. At the same time, you're usually not expected to have a really active role in listening to a storyteller other than opening your eyes in awe and imagine.

Another difference, at least in my opinion, is that a fairy tale creates images from words. When you read something, it is up to your imagination to "see" things. In movies, you directly see splash of blood and so on. Note that last time I went seeing a movie with a nurse friend of mine we both spent our time laughing. She was laughing because of the medical impossibilities (too much blood or things like this) while I was laughing at the logical incoherences. And it was not even considered as a violent movie...

One of the main thing I regret about movies and games is that they are somehow "pre-canned" stories. You don't even have to imagine how things are, what are the surrounding looking like, what the people look like and so on. You don't have to imagine, to make your mind work, to ask questions. Of course, you can do this about what is unseen on the screen, but most of the important stuff is already shown. In fairy tales, you have to do all the stuff yourself, which is a really good exercise.

Now, if you go back in time, I'm sure that you'll find lots of people arguing about the fact that books should not be about fictional stuff as they would lead the reader to unholy ideas and so on. Yesterday, it was about books, today about video games and television. Tomorrow... we shall see.

To tell the truth I do believe that TV or video games can have bad influence, just as anything else. But what really matters, to my point of view, is the way children are raised by their parents, how they learn to see the world around them and to live in it. I have cousins who were raised without ever seeing the TV and so on. Their parents thought that TV was bad stuff. Nowadays, they're at the end of high school or in their first years of university. Are they any better or any worse than others: no.

I guess it's all about being reasonable, being sensible and not mixing fiction and reality. Now, if you ask me, I think there are stuff I wouldn't show to my kids until they reach some age. I'd rather make them imagine things, use their own brain on fairy tales than be consumers of pre-canned stories.

Well, first, I would have to make kids

haaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha
very very interesting!
well i donno about that but to be honest i have a four year old brother, and whenever i sit to tell him a bed time story, if i did not tell him one where a monster is destroyed and he is the hero, then he would tell me i am a loser (implying i have no storytelling skills whatsoever) and even if he did listen to a nice strory where the wolf is nice and playing with the sheep...he is not as captivated and as interested as telling him he busted some moster who looked scary...
but you are right....kids are fed ugly mentality...including violence, discriminatoin...that is very true...and also the illusion that a happily ever after would be after defeating one dragon...when in reality life is not so simple ne!
:D

children are greatly influenced with what they're seeing and hearing...
they tend to mimic what they are told or see whether in the book or in the idiot box (t.v)

the most responsible about their action is actually their parents/ or guardians,..people blame their irresponsibility with what the media are showing now, they may be influenced by it, but it can be corrected with proper guidance,..

violent movies either fairy tales---> both teaches violence, harshness even inequality and worldly actions, yet, not enough reason to blame the actions of young ones today...
proper guidance i say...and a sane mind for the kids

A lot of all of these I think is in the interpretation. As such, fairy tales may be a more accepted children media because they lend themselves easier to milder interpretations than some violent video games or such. For example, it is much easier for children/ parents to interpret violence in fairy tale as justice, but maybe not so much for the violence in Grand Theft Auto.

merged: 01-29-2007 ~ 05:05pm
Further, most fairy tale books do not come with violent visuals.

While there are many similarities between modern video games and fairy tales of old there also quite a few differences. Both are of course meant to entertain, however fairy tales often have morals wheras the majority of video games do not.

For instance in the "Red Shoes" by Hans Christian Anderson, a young girl named Karen decided to wear red dancing shoes repeatedly to church even though dressing in such a provacative manner was frowned upon. While she was scolded for it she continued to wear those shoes. One day as she was arriving to church, there was a soldier who saw her shoes and told her that they would be lovely for dancing. Karen could not resist and started to dance. Unfortunately for her the shoes would not stop and had to be forced off of her. She did not wear them for a while, but then there was a grand ball which she was invited to. She looked lovely in her dress but did not have any shoes to wear. Without thinking she put on the shoes but the second they were fastened she begun to dance. This time much to her dismay she couldn't stop. She danced into far off lands and across the seven seas but could not stop. Soon her shoes were quite bloodied. She needed to be rid off those infernal shoes, so she vistited an executioner and begged him to cut off her feet. So cut them off he did. She decided to enter a convent to atone for her sins. And from that day forth she was humbled.

Though the story is quite qraphic, it has a moral that parents (at least in the past) would want to teach their children. That disobedience and deviance from the norm is a sin, it also shows that there is forgiveness, even for sinners.

How many video games are there with simaler morals? I'm sure that there are exceptions, but the majority don't.

What, video game teach children morals, unfortunatly they are not usually good or explicit enough. Besides children and most other people don't play games to learn morals they play them to forget about real life and just have a fun time.

When i was younger. i played pc n video games for fun. Very addicted to them at one time till i had always neglected my responsibilities. So i dont really know if plp really play games to escape reality since i dont really have much problems in this n none of my friends do at least untill certain extent. In addition to that i dont really know or agree that video games can educate children till such great extent even for games specially made for them. I do agree that they have great influence over children as u can sometimes c them mimic characters but i think thats as far as it goes. Ohhh, n a fairry tales shouldnt have too much of violence in them if not it would be OK to teach kids in school.

Hmmm he he he
interesting topics

First I agree with you that it's looks funny how people just this bad, that's good and so on... like they did these days with violent movies and video games... I think people need something to blame and not take it for themselves how they have raised their children just like pernoel said.

I agree with what you think about nice looking prince that always take a good part.
In reality there is no such things, most of them is a real jerk ha ha not only prince also the princess (what i mean here is a good looking male and female ^^ remember what I mention is most not all)
This could make children think that every ugly creature is having a bad attitude, which makes some of them feel they have the right to bullying the others (which usually they called nerd) as they grew up.

There is no such thing as simple to judge right or wrong...
But there is again, children fairy tales or books generally using nice looking princess or prince because children loves beauty, that's why I think... well when I'm around 7-8 years old and my lil bro around 3-4 years old, my mom bought me a mask... it was "petruk" (one of Indonesian's wayang character) which have a scary face, I wore them and chasing after my lil bro... and he's crying out loud ha ha.. so my mom threw it away afterwards... that's why fairytales only using a nice looking one (with super duper great attitude too) as the main hero and heroine... wishing that if the child want to have a nice couple they have to have a nice manner ^^ (perhaps?)

And they live happily ever after...
What a bu****it
there is no such things! How could they (the books) said that? I really coudn't understand... so there is again... it's only a fairytales... (even the fairy did not exist) so just go on....

Violence... hmm me myself doesn't like American movie or games too much, I prefered Japanese games which have less (almost no) blood splash... Well there is violence games by Japanese developer (example Dynasty Warriors by Koei) but as you slain your enemies, there is no blood splash or something scary like that, or fighting games like Tekken, DOA, etc there is less bloods than a game like Mortal Combat

So what I wanna say is:
- you're right that fairytales is have a bad influence too about violence but there is again, fairytales is a part of every kids lives he he eventhough there is no such things in real life
- A violent movies and games do take part in bad manners of the players, just like pernoel said, you have to be active (as the bad person o_O) to make your main char stay alive
- if you're the parent or the guardian, prevent them to have or gain something like that (violent movies or video games)

i think you have a point but i think the fault is on the pairents. the first expose thier childern to thease "things"(i am not saying they are bad) but then as thier childern become vilont the hesatate to relise that they never told them that violnce is not the way to react to bad situatons. i also will point out that it is not just video games shows moves ect.it is what is going on the the world. even by watching the news they may get ideas. ofcorse you have see news whan someone is beten raped then murderd some children even witness thease kinds of acts, and they may add to childrens outlook on violence. my point is said not to add on to yours. yes games do infulence chilren so do movies and the reasom thay do is because mostly every homes in amrica (i use amrica because i live thier) own atleast 1 or more television sets. and at least one type of game "thinggy" by having so many items in your house that have potental to influence children they will in some way or another. and with farytails simply that is how people are ugly always =bad its just socioy. and yeah they can change it but i doubt they will....*sigh*

I'll take a stab at the fairy tale preconceptions

Quote by xiaodick#1) Handsome = good, Ugly = bad, evil. Have you ever noticed that the Princes, Knights, heroes are always described as handsome, good looking while the evil villains are always ugly?

This is not necessarily the case since the not all bad characters in the original fairly tales are actually depicted as ugly (except from a "moral" sense) and not all good characters are depicted as dashing or beautiful. Most of the hype is around how various others visually portrayed them from the script although this is more allegory? (ex. displaying the ugliness of the individual on the outside in the case of the villains) rather than an attempt to display ugly and bad and beautiful as good. It is merely an easier way to get the point of the story across.

Quote by xiaodick#2) Violence is the way to solve problems. The Prince had to save the Princess in the tower, however, a dragon is guarding the tower, the prince bravely fought and killed the dragon. and lived happily ever after with the princess.
#3) Violent content. In some of the popular fairy tales, the villians are found to employ some violent and bad tecniques. The dragon burnt the villagers, arson. "Fee, fi, fo fum! I smell the blood of an Englishmen; Be he alive, or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread!" Peseus cuts off the head of Medusa.

No contest here. Most fairly tales have their share of violence (or at least shows of force). Again though that is a reflection of the intent of the story (basically good overcoming evil) and not a deliberate attempt to promote violence.

Quote by xiaodick From that, i believed that the actual reason why kids these days are becoming violent, is not entirely because of violent video games and movies but also partially, due to the fact that young kids are already exposed to such content through such fairy tales and worst of all, told that they (the stories) are good.
*However, my stand on violent video games and movies is that they are not exactly bad, its just the the kids lack parental guidance.

Your last statement is really the best summary and can be applied to fairy tales too. People are shaped by their experiences but are not necessarily bound by those experiences. In the end an individual must take responsibility for their own actions regardless of how they were raised or what they were exposed to. Blaming other things for the behavior of anyone who make a choice to act in a certain way is BS and always will be.

As for video games. Well one only needs to look at how desensitized humanity has become to violence to discover why certain types of games are so popular.

I should really point out that games and television are images that are taken in through visual images. Fairtales are taken in through reading and listening to the story; two extremely different ways of absorbing information. Yes it is true that fairytales are violent in certain ways, but for the overall majority, it has little affect for increasing aggressive behavior.

You might argue that fairy tales have been created into movies, and therefore fairy tales are no different from television. Problem is, that in most fairy tales, it is nearly impossible to go "fight dragons or orcs" in the real world. One must remember that what is not possible will do little to stimulate one to act out such an action seen in movies. For most television shows, they deal with current issues: guns, knives, murder in apartments; all extremely current.

Now games; this is extremely different from a fairtale. In a fairy tale, you either watch or hear about the slaying of the dragon. Generally, one does not feel any sense of accomplishment from seeing the slaying of a monster in a movie. In a game, such as WWC, when one kills an orc, he/she will have the satisfaction of actually killing the monster. It has to deal with control. In a fairytale, one cannot control how the story goes. In a game, one can; one can decided whether or not the orc dies. There is a sense of power that is felt.

So in short from all this ranting, television are more current, and games give off a sense of power since one can actually control certain variables of the game, (not to mention games tend to be more vivid when it comes to the death scenes).

There is a lot of psychology to be seen into this subject, check it out, it's cool.

I have officially finished my rant, and thank you for reading it if you did.

The history nerd here has to point out that fairy tales, from a historical point of view, do contain a lot of slant, bias and violence, because they were originally intended for adults. What an example? One of the original Grimm fairy tales was called Donkeyskin or Deerskin. Try that story on for size, it's full of things you never want children near. The only stories were still tell little kids are paired down versions of the orignals, and only the ones with happy endings and even turning out to be ugly. I also have to point out that fairy tales are based on archetypes of human character that reaccur in every genre and form in every country. I then also have to point out the modern game programmers and television producers were also raised on fairy tales, so they're still puting the same stuff out there that they read as kids, just with a new twist. It's those human archetypes that make characters in stories, movies and games believable, so we use them over and over again, and it's the same bones every time but with different skin.

The real source or negativity in children is adults around them. You'd be amazed, but when people actually PLAY with their children, they don't have as much time for video games and TV! What a concept, interacting with your offspring!

There, literature and history nerdiness complete, rant complete.

I agree with you. All this talk of getting rid of violent games and such is just hypcritical and really bugs me. I know games and such are violent, but where do the parents come in? Where does parenting become an issue? I think its bull that the games and movies get the blame. Oh, the violence might dull them to it but their parents should be teaching them right and wrong. If the parents do what they should the kids won't end up bad. I think violent games, videos, etc. help prepare kids for the real world, not necessarily the demon slaying and magic, but that the fact that there's violence in the world and people who will do bad things and in turn try to get them to as well. There. like everyone else, I ranted, I fell better, I'm done.

There are so many violent video games these days..... including sexual stuff.....
Now even to children, killing is no big deal

I guess fairy tales might be a little less violent...... I mean a lot

It is very hard to figure out i think that it should be up to the parents disgreasion i thinks its sad that young children are exposed to that and that they develoup an apathy for it but i think that shouled be the least of are wories their are alot of worse things in the world today,corruption death, hardship, racism thier are worse things. but in reasponce to the questin fariy tales give a false impreason they are mostly suger coated and sweat(not all are like that) and most of them give a false impreason anyone can live hapily ever after the good always win and any girl can be rescued by a butiful prince life is not like that but it is good to dream i gues

The Brother Grimm, Wizard of OZ, and Alice and Wonderland are some of the many fairy tales that contain graphic violence in them. Unlike fairy tales video games do come with content ratings, but parents avoid the content ratings and purchase the game for their children any way. Parents always want to blame the so call "evils of society" because it takes the burden of bad parenting off of them.

yes there are thoes
and your right about that parents need to git there stuff together and stop blaming other sourses

i like fairy tales

yeah there okay... i guess

ne... everything I wanted to say had already been said :P

Anyway, I think its true that fairy tales have a means of a bad face. But if we take into consideration the audience, good and bad are displayed at its easiest to digest.

Black and White, Good and Evil. I agree with Mnemeth that "Ugly" doesnt necessarily mean "Bad". It's just an outlet. In every tale, story or saga, there has to be two opposite poles: the "Hero" side and the "Villain" side. For kids, its hard to understand something "ugly" (like a mean-face goon with a warty face and body odor) will be their "Hero". I mean, put youself in a kid's shoes, who would you chose to imagine yourself as (since as children, we think of ourselves as the characters, dont we?)?

It's not fair, its prejudiced and its immature. But it's also direct, simple and short. Exactly why it's called a fairy tale. As we grow older, we search for tales with more depth. And that mainly is the charm of video games.

Expensive plots, excellent characterizations, beautiful twists: yeah. that's the money. Bad guys arent bad, they're human. Violence is found in video games, yes. But so is Loyalty, Dignity, Justice, and all the other shebang... Somehow, the violence is just a commercial by-product used to promote the games. Its a face value.

If parents want to blame the violence found in video games, why dont they blame themselves for not showing their kids the correct values they could pick up in things around them. Every little thing has a good and bad side. Its how a kid is raised that he recognizes which and adopts it into his lifestyle.

Quote by AMEisRAINene... everything I wanted to say had already been said :P

Quite true

Most of today's "mainstream" fairy tales, or the ones that most people can recall from memory, are usually sugared version of the original ones. Usually the original ones are much more, should I say, graphic, than that of their modified counter-parts. Even if they were rewritten in such a way that they seem much more acceptable to society, the fact that they share the same idea as the original (w/c is Good Slays Evil) still stands out. Thats why we can't say that fairy tales are the better alternative to VGs when it comes down to this basic argument.

No matter how hard parents try to shift the blame to others, one cannot deny the idea that Violence indeed exists, in many different forms. Blaming one thing for child's exposure to violence is but a short-sighted view of the whole issue. I agree on what people said here, that proper parenting is essential to stem the damage being done by the media and such. (Not that I have anything against parents lol )

Actually Perseus cuts off the head of medusa is not a fairy tail but a Greek myth(can't remember Greek or roman) But you are right they do have some violence in it. I've watched movies with a bunch of killing and cussing and I don't even cuss or ever get in fights. I mean come on if you think that that is coming from video games movies and anime then they need to do more research.

I'm not a much a fan of fairy tales and good-ending stories so I can agree with your viewpoints. I find it interesting that you point out such a subtle thing. Even though I dislike violent movies and video games but I also dislike fairy tales. It's kind of fake and a serving-people's-purpose stories so I'm not gonna tell my kids about fairy tales but I'm not gonna stuff their heads with sad and cruel things either.