Login

Login

Need to register? Lost password?

Options

Advertisements

Advertisements

 

What would it take to change your beliefs?

Religion & Science

Minitokyo » Life & Lifestyle Fora » Religion & Science  What would it take to change your beliefs?

page 1 of 2

Any Simpsons viewers in here? Remember that episode where Homer became a genius and had mathematical proof that God didn't exist? Ned Flanders got a hold of one of the paper copies and found that Homer was right so he set it on fire...

The point is, in his hands he had "proof" that his god didn't exist. Which leads to the question, based on your beliefs, what would it take to make you change them? Would scientific evidence be enough? Does it actually take an act of a god to convince you that yours is wrong? Would absolutely nothing convince you that you were wrong and you're willing to take that to the afterlife?

Also for those who are atheist/agnostic etc, what would it take for you to change your tune? I hope this doesn't devolve into nothing more than attacks on one another, but will instead give more insight into strength of belief as well as reasons behind it. Also discuss where your beliefs originated from. Like age you started or reason behind it.

Personally, for a while I was one of those God fearing Christians. "God fearing" being the main part of that in that my grandparents made it their purpose to scare the hell out of me into believing. Telling me that I wouldn't get a chance to graduate high school when I was 8 because the world was going to end. Detailing the horrors of hell as if it were a bedtime story. But as I got older, I saw the error in pushing religion on a child. What mother and father say is like the word of God to a child. So to say "worship this way" to a child incapable of making their own rational decisions, seemed wrong to me and I abandoned this taught way of thinking.

Since then I have become agnostic, seeking answers through science, discussion and self soul searching. I'd estimate that by my life's end, I likely won't have found the true answers, all I can hope to do is find answers that work for me. That's my story... your turn.

if God smites me or strikes me down with lightning and I live through it, sure why not. or like in Moses' case, a bush on fire and a voice coming from it (which could possibly be me or one of my friends pulling a prank on people, but whatever) or maybe God appears in front of me personally and turns me into an old man like it did to Moses and live to like 1000. basically, just physical proof would be more than sufficient instead of other people's opinions and a possibly fiction book.

All of these condition must be met for me to believe.
1. I must see someone die in a matter that there is no way that they could still be alive (ex. fed through a meet grinder.). there must be proof that there was no escape (ex. trapdoors. mirrors. any trick a magiciam might use. And god must raise this person back to life with no ill effects. Must have the same memories, describe how death felt, how he/she saw heaven or hell.
2. I must be able to with "God's" help walk on water. Again it must be normal water. Something like the middle of the atlantic would work.
3. I must be shown heaven. If i don't see grandma/grandpa the whole things off.
4. I will need a plausible explanation of why we have dinosaur bones on earth.
5. I will need a sensible answer for "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"
6. Finally if the conditions are met along with anything else i can think of there must be proof that is wasn't simply "high" or under any sort of chemical influence, and that i wasn't going insane.

i dont know, i just heard God's voice telling me to do it.
if u talk about God, u dont need theory.

Quote: And god must raise this person back to life with no ill effects.

it's strange u asked. u could but u must believe Him first to see someone die in a matter that bla..bla..bla

Quote: Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"

He can do anything except if it againsts His nature, like do sins, etc. so the answer is yes. Jesus could microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it, then He also could do something to make Him could eat that burrito.

Quote: I must be shown heaven.

some people have met heaven when they're in apparent death. u could ask them

Quote: why we have dinosaur bones on earth.

well, n why not? what's the big deal? o. O


I wont change my believe. or should i say nothing would change my believe

Quote by XRW175P6MQ4All of these condition must be met for me to believe.
1. I must see someone die in a matter that there is no way that they could still be alive (ex. fed through a meet grinder.). there must be proof that there was no escape (ex. trapdoors. mirrors. any trick a magiciam might use. And god must raise this person back to life with no ill effects. Must have the same memories, describe how death felt, how he/she saw heaven or hell.
2. I must be able to with "God's" help walk on water. Again it must be normal water. Something like the middle of the atlantic would work.
3. I must be shown heaven. If i don't see grandma/grandpa the whole things off.
4. I will need a plausible explanation of why we have dinosaur bones on earth.
5. I will need a sensible answer for "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"
6. Finally if the conditions are met along with anything else i can think of there must be proof that is wasn't simply "high" or under any sort of chemical influence, and that i wasn't going insane.

i'd say living in your country peacefully is already kind of a miracle lol

priincess, while your intentions may be good enough, I have to wonder as to whether you think things completely through before typing them and submitting them. Besides the obvious downfall in the way you compose your thoughts, IE the usage of 'u' as a substitute for 'you' and the serious sentence structure problem, you really do very little to substantiate your points. Case in point...

"it's strange u asked. u could but u must believe Him first to see someone die in a matter that bla..bla..bla "
How is it that you would know God's intentions? That also being said, wouldn't then all diehard Christians who lost friends or family in terrible accidents would have had them resurrected? If the determining factor for resurrection is belief, then miracles like that would occur far more often.

In reference to the dinosaur bones you said "well, n why not? what's the big deal? o. O" What exactly is your knowledge of the devine creation vs evolution debate? Creationists believe that God created all life and therefore would have also had to create dinosaurs. While scientists believe these bones could be millions of years old, a creationist believes earth is only thousands. So dinosaurs and humans would have had to simultaneously exist or at least in very close proximity of one another.

And although it's unimportant in the larger scope of things, you said that Jesus could microwave a burrito so hot he couldn't eat it, but then went on to say he would then do something so that he could. That being said, wouldn't that null the point that it would be too hot since he can now consume said burrito? That's one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" types of questions.

It's obvious that the religion board is the most volatile of all the boards on MT. We have so many people that are polar opposites of others, and sometimes it just escalates into a yelling match. But these short and sometimes unintelligible responses you sometimes are keen to giving, don't usually help your agenda all that much.

money?

Quote by Alfredigitalmoney?

join scientology den

Quote: How is it that you would know God's intentions? That also being said, wouldn't then all diehard Christians who lost friends or family in terrible accidents would have had them resurrected? If the determining factor for resurrection is belief, then miracles like that would occur far more often.

you should note that Jesus says everything is possible if we've strong faith. it's posibble for believers to walk on the water as long as they have strong faith; that none of us have it these days

merged: 06-28-2008 ~ 11:18am

Quote: In reference to the dinosaur bones you said "well, n why not? what's the big deal? o. O" What exactly is your knowledge of the devine creation vs evolution debate? Creationists believe that God created all life and therefore would have also had to create dinosaurs. While scientists believe these bones could be millions of years old, a creationist believes earth is only thousands. So dinosaurs and humans would have had to simultaneously exist or at least in very close proximity of one another.

God who creates everything lives forever n ever, there's no start or end for Him.

Quote: That being said, wouldn't that null the point that it would be too hot since he can now consume said burrito?

n that's why, why we've to asks something nonsense to prove that God's exist or not, God's powerful or not. so, now u know that the answer for that question doesnt prove anything.


Quote: But these short and sometimes unintelligible responses you sometimes are keen to giving, don't usually help your agenda all that much.

that's not strange for me o. O it's said that the conversations between believers n nonbelievers wouldnt connected each other, for we have different view of something. but for a good speaker, it's possible to make someone agree for what he says. i know i dont, n i say anything straight to the point. i just says things based from facts; what God says in the Bible.

Nothing could really change my belifes so far as I know.

When I get a brain transplant, my beliefs will change.

Quote by SulibresWhen I get a brain transplant, my beliefs will change.

These are the kinds of comments that scare me. The fact that there is no conceivable way to convince you that your way of thinking is wrong, is the type of thinking that creates extremism and hate. Were I to have been your parent, I could have taught you that all black people want to steal and rape. I could have drilled that into your head and made you believe it. And beings that your belief is absolute, nothing would be able to convince you that you were wrong in your thoughts aside of a brain transplant? I guess no matter how much logic, proof or discussion some people just assume they are right.

I guess to answer the title question: nothing. Yes, I don't think anything could ever change my beliefs. Maybe it seems close minded, but I believe that there is one true answer out there, and I believe I know what it is. (That sounds conceited, sorry 0_0) I'm a very logical person, so my mind does say things like "How can you be sure beyond doubt that what you believe is true?" but my heart already knows. I've never been the best at explaining myself, so I won't really try.

Quote by shoujoboyThese are the kinds of comments that scare me. The fact that there is no conceivable way to convince you that your way of thinking is wrong, is the type of thinking that creates extremism and hate.

You know, I agree. Extremism and hate is often born from people not being able to accept someone else's way of thinking. But not everyone is like that. Even though I have no doubt in my religion, I don't feel any hatred towards those who don't agree with me, nor do I try to push my beliefs on others. I may mention it and talk about it, but forcing is very wrong. I think the people who feel that hatred are just not thinking, and they need to realise they're giving people even more reason to hate them. There are even things in my religion I don't always agree with, but I still believe that they're true. Just because I don't agree with them for myself doesn't make them wrong.

Quote by shoujoboyWere I to have been your parent, I could have taught you that all black people want to steal and rape. I could have drilled that into your head and made you believe it.

This is why I think a time comes when everyone should just start thinking for themselves. When we are young, we are usually taught one thing, and when we grow up we refuse to believe anything else. But people need to realise this, and find their own answers. Both sides of my family are very different religion wise, and both my parents disagree on many things, so I have to do my own thinking. There are things I've been taught that I don't agree with. But in the end, both my parents and myself ended up as the same religion. We still disagree on some little matters but our beliefs lie in the same place.

I guess what I'm basically trying to say is, use your brain everyone, it's there for a reason ^_^' Anyways I don't usually participate in these discussions; not sure why I did, but thanks for listening. And for the record, I'm not Christian (people usually assume), I'm Muslim.

(And for those of you who like scientific answers, the Qur'an has things mentioned in it that science didn't discover until ages later ^^ But as I said, no forcing :))


My dad is Catholic, my mom is Buddhist. My own beliefs are more a mishmash of both religions, though I consider myself Catholic because I was raised to be so and I got to church and whatnot. As such, though more core beliefs will not change, the little details will as I learn about other religions. I don't believe that any one religion is correct, and that most of them (cults and made-up religions don't really count imho) provide some insight to what God/life is.

After all, all religion, even though the lessons they teach I believe are directly from God, are still passed down from humans. Humans err, make mistakes, and ultimately, much of religion is institutionalized. However, I believe religion at its core is still from God. You just need to take some things--rites, regulations--with a grain of salt.

Also, I, like Ash, don't like to force my beliefs on anyone else. It's mainly from the belief that there is no one supreme religion, but also because I believe that true faith comes not from having it forced on you, but rather must be experienced firsthand. No amount of research and study will truly convert anyone.

And that's my story. <3

These go under number 6 on my previous list.
I would change my beliefs if you could prove that
1. God created dinosaurs just before he created man
2. God made all dinosaurs invisible so man would never know they existed until thousands of years later we dug up their bones.

Quote: These go under number 6 on my previous list.
I would change my beliefs if you could prove that
1. God created dinosaurs just before he created man
2. God made all dinosaurs invisible so man would never know they existed until thousands of years later we dug up their bones

whatever the proves are, we cant change ur beliefs if you dont want to. God created dinosaurs? i thought you didnt believe God's exist.

Again, his arguement is the the time of their existence. If we assume that God created dinosaurs, then we have to assume that it was thousands of years ago, not millions. That being the case, dinosaurs and humans would have had to coexist at some point. Therefore, our knowledge of them would be greater due to first hand experience as opposed to fossils today.

The whole thing is, if humans weren't the first to exist then the whole God thing is kind of in question.

Quote: The whole thing is, if humans weren't the first to exist then the whole God thing is kind of in question.

why?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Now two verses before that you have mention of the "living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind". So if we assume that dinosaurs were apart of this group of creation, then they were created on the same day as humans. That being said, LOGICALLY we would have to inhabit Earth simulatanously.

If you'd like argue that dinosaurs were first and humans came later, then that eliminates the concept of "dominion" over everything. We should have had control over dinosaurs. We should have used them for food or transportation. Yet, we have no real first-hand proof of cooexistance.

Quote by priincess

Quote: These go under number 6 on my previous list.
I would change my beliefs if you could prove that
1. God created dinosaurs just before he created man
2. God made all dinosaurs invisible so man would never know they existed until thousands of years later we dug up their bones

whatever the proves are, we cant change ur beliefs if you dont want to. God created dinosaurs? i thought you didnt believe God's exist.

If you had read my previous post you would know that item 6 implied that I may think of more possible proofs that i would accept to prove that God existed. The above 2 conditions are written assuming the bible is in fact correct. Current science holds that dinosaurs and humans never coexisted. I am also assuming that dinosaurs did exist at the some time in the past. Therefore IF the Bible is accurate God must have been able to hide the existence of Dinosaurs for several thousand years or he simply does not exist. More accurately the bible is incorrect. However in that case refer back to my original post, does not necessarily assume that the God is the one portrayed in the bible.

I hope that clarified that statement.

maybe this helps.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_creationism"

i don't know about what you guys/gals believe, but i support the so called "progressive creationism"

Yea I remember right at the end of the bible, there was an addendum added by God: Don't take my word litterally. You need to decipher what it was I was trying to say. I didn't really create everything in 7 days, it was more like over millions of years. It just totally felt like 7 days ya know. So yea, while you're reading all of this stuff, remember not all of it means exactly what it says. Peace.

You know science at least takes time to admit it doesn't know everything. When it gets things wrong or just gets new information, then the theories are changed. It seems religion is all about just winging it as long as at the end of the day they can say "Yea, God totally did it."

Quote: I am also assuming that dinosaurs did exist at the some time in the past.

so do i

Quote: Therefore IF the Bible is accurate God must have been able to hide the existence of Dinosaurs for several thousand years or he simply does not exist.

why must He? because dinosaurs had come before human did, the prophets- that were guided by God to write Bible- didnt mention anyhing about dinosaurs.

Quote by shoujoboyYea I remember right at the end of the bible, there was an addendum added by God: Don't take my word litterally. You need to decipher what it was I was trying to say. I didn't really create everything in 7 days, it was more like over millions of years. It just totally felt like 7 days ya know. So yea, while you're reading all of this stuff, remember not all of it means exactly what it says. Peace.

You know science at least takes time to admit it doesn't know everything. When it gets things wrong or just gets new information, then the theories are changed. It seems religion is all about just winging it as long as at the end of the day they can say "Yea, God totally did it."

yea, God did it, in the end. and that's the truth :\

page 1 of 2

Only members can post replies, please register.