Chaotic Chain Theory or CCT[ It's time to do some changes! ]

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irix

irix

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well, i'm know that the actual system in MT is chaotic and crazy, because the rulez here are difficult to understand sometimes [all by the terms and the meaning of the same terms, example: like the word nude... ], next with the scans... i'm know that in MT is a site with a lot of the most beautiful and quality scans, but... there are so much scan's now and a few mods that have a lot of work [because not only have to work to keep all so good here (like to fix all the bugs in MT, look for spammers, evaluated all the quality scans, try to do a wall, give help to the people with the support inquiry... etc), them have a real life, have to go to school or work, have another websites, and have a social life!!! ^^], then with the rulez all the persons who sumitted scans pass to submit wall's [like me... ^^'], yeah i'm know that all the person here are angry not for that, because like me, i'm really like the best scans more than the poor quality scans!, it's because for the level that you gain in the effort to post something here and when it's deleted you lost your level [example: my friend noctum, it's the fisrt person who gain the level 100 two times!!! ^^ in the change of the rulez... in this time the rulez change of ecchi to not allowed ecchi any more! ^^], then the wallpapers now... difficult to say something... because is an artwork!!! how i can give my only perspective of all the works here... because do you like the works of piccasso for some people his work is very appreciate, but for another people it's very strange and don't like it!... well, why not try to improve in a rating system base to give some idea what kind of work eliminate in a regular time [i don't know, but something like: X wall have: 5.6 of appreciation in a week [regular]... and then only the mods can decide in the final step if that wall it's deleted!].
Well, why i'm post this thread it's only to make a suggestion about it, because... all the poeple that makes a poor wall's [because are a lot of people that are new in doing this kind of things, and like to improve (and because in MT, not all the members are really an experimented artist or are so good making wall's (like me ^^')], if them don't post scans or wallies because the rulez and the level system, then much of them work more in post comments or do more doujinshi, or make more threads [like usual do! ^^] it's like a chain...

scans[if not a good quality is deleted] > wallpapers [if it's a low effort in a specific time it's deleted or something like that! ^^] and doujinshi [not have a clearly directives and it's more rentable to all the members here in the future and now... ^^] > comments and threads [if you spam are you restricted or banned, you have to see all the warnings!!!]
...and the detonate here is the Level system and the not very clearly terms in the rulez of MT! [plus that in MT are a huge Babel tower with a lot people of all the countries here, and some that not have a good comprehesion of the english very well ^^']

well this is my chain theory example:
if i post a 20 scans [reached a level 5], and all are deleted because if bad quality [lost level and have level 1] in this moment the person is >=( , then try to work in walls and gain level 20, but because it's a nuisances wall's lost level and have now level 5 the person is :angry: , then he tries to comment more (but it of another country that not have a good english at all, and don't understand very well the rulez here and do much spamming), and if have gave level 11, he lost the level again for spam having a level 3 and now the person is >=0!! ... after this the person have a lot of friends and do a riotting against all the mods [specially for the ones to give the respectful warnings or the ones that restricted to this member ^^]... then is banned and the person is now >=0000000~~~~~!!!!!!!! ...then the same member do another account... and do the same history but with the doujinshi [that for in this moment not have any directives or problems with the rulez]
this is a worst case of a member here... *thinking more about it!* heh,really not!!! ^^'
[this is a fictious character... :P]

that's why i'm propose two options...
the numeric level system to a word level system... mods can view the numeric one... but the member only can view a word of her/his description
ex. mods view 118 in her/his level system but the member can view something like this quite high or simple high ^^
something like this...

i'm use the mayor level... [in this case as exam i'm use 128 as the max. level member here... ^^] then i do somthing like that
128 [max level] -10 [the minimus level to have some privileges here] = 118 then
level of the actual member used have 25 [more than minimus level], then
(25 [actual level]/118 [relative max. level])x100%= 21.18% [level based in % it's more easy]
and the member only can view the word... good

and you can make a chart like this...
x = max. level
y = actual member level
x-10 = w = relative max. level
y / w * (100) = n% = porcentage
if y <= 10 then " insufficient level " else
if y > 10 then
case
if w is 0 to 25.99% then "good level"
if w is 26% to 50.99% then "quite high level"
if w is 60% to 80.99% then "high level"
if w is 90% to 100% then "extremadely high level"

something like that... i'm forgot so much of my programming life... ^^'


and a similar system to evaluate the works instead a favorite bottom
like 6 person post califications of 6,7,5,6,7 and a 8 with the prom of 7.8 ,
my idea is like that: i can evaluated in a rage of 1 to the 10 [and only appears that i'm voted like a fav or a vote, not the number... like a secret vote and not have so much problems with the member], the system will deleted automatically the wall's that have a prom <6 in a concrete time [maybe a week]... the mods only receive the few regular wall in his/her daily report menu to evaluate if that wall's are so good to stay here or will be deleted! and the another one... that are the good wall's [with the evaluation of all the different visions of all the members that vote in that wall] , in the wall all the members only can view the word of the appreciation... based in the numeral system... somthing like...
0-5.9 bad [automatically deleted in a week]
6-7.5 regular [the mod have only the report to jugde at least]
7.6-8.9 good
9-9.7 wow!
9.8-10 really amazing!
but for vote i like to say something... you have to make a directives of what do you thinks is a good wall... like...
a bad one is a repetitive wall with the same single effect... not have a lot of effort in it [looks like a instant wall of 5 mins], use only a stock photos without make a sigle change... the image is only post and don't looks like the member extract the scan [looks like a copy paste]... something like that... yeah i'm know that is very difficult! ^^ but you can do a something like this!

well, i don't like to have a riot here in MT, but if that continues in the same form... i don't know really, but someday all the people leave this beautiful site... or will be banned all of us! ^^

Postdata: Sorry if my english is really bad... ^^' and that's only my refletion of my life in MT... sorry if some people may be angry with this thread!!! ^^' and sorry again! ^^

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Geez...the arithmatic is confusing. Let me run it over again @_@ Interesting idea though

  • Dec 30, 2004

Alpha

Alpha

DreamMaster

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I see you are thinking a lot my dear friend, all suggestions to make MT a better place day by day are all welcome.
But the problem I think and it is the most problematic is de deltion criteria and the control of Gallery Directors behavior.
I can admit that some scans and walls may be blury, etc,etc. But a lot of time I see scans and walls with no problem deleted by GD.
Determinate the deletion criteria as a stron rule to follow always and do not admit doubt about it.
With this change I can see all members happy in MT.

Just a suggestion of course...

Keltosh

Retired Moderator

Keltosh

Inquisitor on hiatus

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Alpha, the deletion criteria are already stated clearly in this thread
http://forum.minitokyo.net/showthread/10833/

As for this idea, I appreciate the thought but I think itì's not good for many reasons
1) the existing database cannot be easily changed
2) The system would be hard to implement and probably buggy
3) last but not least, popular support isn't really determinating, since persons with many friends will get higher evaluation and since many just post in order to gain levels.
Also masses usually just look at a picture and try to decide if it's pretty, not if it's well made.

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Vampire

Vampire

Somebody is watching you, always

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Your offer is really interesting irix, for my (and maybe for some of us) this would be equivalent to begin again.

I would be ready to lose everything, only to obtain more and best quality ;)

  • Dec 30, 2004

irix

irix

quam sidera multa, cum tacet nox

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yeah, i'm understand all this points keltosh... and that's why i said that is very difficult...
1. really in the database have a huge bugs!!! and really difficult to change... ^^'
2. yeah, your point three it's the most huge problem ... but there are only two forms to change that... first that a ethical/moral change or designate a group that have the control to do only that [like a mod, but in this case like a senate to do that! ^^' ], ...difficult too! :(
3.and for the deletion criteria... in MT have to do a special section only for the approved rulez... ^^' and it's something like that, but with examples and more concrete the terms...

Kiyone17

nya!

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wow I totally agree with said posts...Just today I finally got to level 10 so I could finally get that picture i wanted then suddenly I was level 8 again because a scan was deleted even tho it was a good quality scan and not resized and not blurry and I had given proper credit and ppl had commented on how good it was thanking me for sharing it and Poof it was deleted and I dropped 2 levels....??? However even tho I am greiving about this I do agree we need to keep the standards high here but when I first found myself demoted I was thinking sheesh they did it on porpose so i am no longer lvl 10...of course I know thats not true but I can see where other newbies might see it that way or get angry...I try not to post too many forum entries a day because I fear someone will say I'm spamming even tho I am not spamming I'm only trying to make frineds here. I have found many ppl I can talk to from Germany since i came here and I have a ton of fun here. Thanks for listening to my rant I promise to close for now.

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  • Dec 30, 2004
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I rather like the current system, actually. I don't think any changes to systems will change people's reactions. Some things always stay the same. :)

DarkVirus

DarkVirus

::Nobody::

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whoa...it looks so confusing...but it is pretty good to decide if a wall is great or just is spam basically...MT realy should have a rating system...

retire

Dende

Dende

Insanity = Freedom

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Quote by VampireYour offer is really interesting irix, for my (and maybe for some of us) this would be equivalent to begin again.
I would be ready to lose everything, only to obtain more and best quality ;)


Quote by DarkViruswhoa...it looks so confusing...but it is pretty good to decide if a wall is great or just is spam basically...MT realy should have a rating system...

all the comments are brilliant indeed..... Irix i like your point, besides that maybe is kinda hard to apply the changes, I havent get any of my posts deleted (this doesnt mean that it wont happen someday) maybe the reasons of delition are valid and the work is on my computer, nothing is been lost that is that hard to get again, Im still learning tips, & techs, and many more like me tries their best to do something of high quiality or at least accepted for the others, so I think the reviews on posts and work valuation, could be bit changed or be a bit-less estrict, of course that just my opinion. :)

"Reality continues To Ruin my Life"-Calvin & Hobbes
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sammo

Retired Moderator

sammo

Retired Moderator

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it's not that MT rules are confusing, it's just that no one reads them >_>

@ alpha: you must think we moderators just go out and pick random gallery submission and delete them. that is NOT the case. if its delete, it just means it didn't meet the basic criteria. most of the time we're being very generous with our judging, so let's stop the blaming, ok?

Alpha

Alpha

DreamMaster

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But Sammo just tell me what kind of thing you see and mods see before delete a wallpaper for example...
A wallpaper is a unique item and this work represent the unique point of view of his owner and anyone else.
Then what people can says what it is good or not, I understand very clear when mods or GD delete wallpapers because it is so blury or bad character extraction, etc, etc...
But I saw works deleted not aparently for quality reazons. o_o???.

I know Sammo your good will to be generous or tolerant and thanks for this, but some times all peoples makes a mistakes, I can sae this very ofthen, he,he...

Just kidding pal. And Why do you tell me stop blaming. I am just tell you what lots of members fell here about deletion... Dont kill me pal, it is or not true that there are lots of post with members asking reazons for deletion problems.

So Relax Sammo be happy, I am just give you good suggestion to solve this problem.
I am not against mods or gallery director is all ok with you Sammo and all of you my friends.

And Keltosh thanks for the link honestly I didnt read it, sorry for that my friend.

Ok Sammo this disscusion is over for me ...

Cheers and happy new year Sammo, gallery directors and mods.


Alpha.

blueotaku-sp

blueotaku-sp

Blue is on me!

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That's not quite exactly sammo it's more like not all the members catch with the changes of rules and know nothing about the gallery system and/or for other are hard to understand 'cause they're in English (this is for not English speakers) and when they try to translate it, they get a really confussing text!! (trust me! ). adn about the quality of wallies I have no comm. on that.

I like the idea a lil confussing but the main idea it's really good!
Maybe if the mods. evaluate and plan it they can get a effective solution, 'cause there's a real problem here at MT and it's not just rippers!!

  • Dec 31, 2004

shinsengumi

Retired Moderator

shinsengumi

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For all of its flaws, real or apparent, I think the current system works fine. You'll never get a system that everyone will be happy with, and with this system, if you think it's too strict, (which I personally don't think it is), that's actually a good thing, because it means that anything that does actually pass the scrutiny of the mods will clearly be a good product. Put differently, for every one marginal entry that is deleted, dozens of bad submissions are cast aside so that when people are looking for scans or wallpapers, they don't have to dig through mountains of garbage.

Yes, it may hurt people's self esteem, but the mods have been here for a while, they've been wallers for a while, and they know exactly what it takes to make a good wallpaper, and they definitely can judge effort.

Besides, as was mentioned previously, the codebase probably isn't the easiest thing to modify, and any major overhaul like what's being suggested may require some pretty extreme effort (and could cause more bugs and problems). The current system works well enough as is.

s h i n s e n g u m i
Minitokyo Policy, Forum, Review, and Category Maintenance Moderator Emeritus

Do not expect to be applauded when you do the right thing, and do not expect to be forgiven when you err, but even your enemies will respect commitment, and a conscience at peace is worth a thousand tainted victories.

sammo

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sammo

Retired Moderator

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@alpha:
but you also must realize that some members post wallpapers just to gain levels so that they can leech. having clutters of nonsense isn't what we really want on MT.

Alpha

Alpha

DreamMaster

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Quote by sammo@alpha:
but you also must realize that some members post wallpapers just to gain levels so that they can leech. having clutters of nonsense isn't what we really want on MT.

well finally Sammo we are agree in everything,
good point and I suggest to remove the level if it is possible to prevent this behavior.
just a suggestion and only use a little concept of each member.

See ya Sammo and I am glad to share the same thinking.

amy

amy

StudioDink

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Irix...

That was so confusing but very informative....I think that its a very good idea...I too would be willing to lose some of my level just for better quality scans and wallpapers...I do try to put alot of hard word and effort into my wallpapers...Alot of my wallpapers tend to take days or weeks to do...I know that there is one that I will need to redo and save as a better quality and thats the Sesshy one...I hate showing bad wallpapers...Anyways, Great idea....

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irix

irix

quam sidera multa, cum tacet nox

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Quote by sammoit's not that MT rules are confusing, it's just that no one reads them
&gt;_&gt;


i'm know that, but honestly, where is a clear button that saids Rules in the principal page of mt... yeah, it's in the support button like the links Minitokyo Policy and FAQ, that's so good, but honestly again, in some countries support meaning help not rules, it's so confusing for some people... maybe this can help or not... like rknight1 saids...

Quote by rknight1I don't think any changes
to systems will change people's reactions. Some things always stay the
same. :)


and that's true... maybe this can not change all, but at least you can have more tools 2 your favor to explain why you erase all of them... and more poeple can help you, only because it's more clear for more people too!

and yeah amy i'm so confising because.... ^^' sorry for that!

and finally, i'm only propose some solutions, i don't think that resolves all problems, because "each head is a different world", but if that change to help is good... ^^

shinsengumi

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shinsengumi

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Quote by Alphawell finally Sammo we are agree in everything, good point and I suggest to remove the level if it is possible to prevent this behavior.

When a submission is deleted, a user's level does go down.

s h i n s e n g u m i
Minitokyo Policy, Forum, Review, and Category Maintenance Moderator Emeritus

Do not expect to be applauded when you do the right thing, and do not expect to be forgiven when you err, but even your enemies will respect commitment, and a conscience at peace is worth a thousand tainted victories.

Keltosh

Retired Moderator

Keltosh

Inquisitor on hiatus

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Uhm .. Irix I appreciate your work but I really don't see the point of this. Maybe some other mod will but honestly sucha system would be too flawed, create too much new problems adnd such >_>

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One of my favorite game ever: Mordor: The Depths Of Dejenol Community
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papyworld

papyworld

Papaya

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Quote by sammoit's not that MT rules are confusing, it's just that no one reads them

honestly sammo ; i have read them carefully because i proposed to translate them in french for sheqel due to his point on his list to do

make miltilingual faq

and there are some misunderstandings really ; some sentences can obviously be understand by 2 ways

i talked with biriwilg about that and she said me keltosh was on the go to make it easier to understand for members. i have made some suggestions in sheqel guestbook ; i think here is also the place to make them.

so here i go ^_^ :

1) problem found while translating the support section :

quote by support section :
Moderators reserve the right to delete material that they deem inappropriate for the Minitokyo Galleries with or without deletion, even if that material conforms to this policy.

the "with or without deletion" is according to me unnecessary no ?

we should just write:
Moderators reserve the right to delete material that they deem inappropriate for the Minitokyo Galleries, even if that material conforms to the policy.

"with or without deletion" makes the sentece weird ... because we speak of deletion just earlier ...

maybe i didn't understand well that sentence ?

2) quote by support section :
You may only submit materials that have at least 16 bit-per-pixel; this does not include greyscale images.

it could be understand like this :
at least 16-bit-per-pixel pic allowed AND THAT proposition doesn't apply to greyscale image. SO greyscale images can be posted and be less thant 16-bit-per pixel

suggestion :
divide this point in two
*You may only submit materials that have at least 16 bit-per-pixel
**this rule doesn't apply to greyscale pictures which can't be uploaded on minitokyo


3)about all "technical" terms like blurry , ... explained as reason of deletion :

i have looked in the sticky threads and i didn't see one explainig clearly what is blurry , ...
maybe should it be great to have a thread with image examples of what isn't good ?

i ask this because i'm not sure of the real meaning of some terms.
i found the correct translation for blurry but there are other terms difficult to translate.

4) about the moderate aspect of the faq

this point is especially due to jinzhou reaction :
i want to point out a thing that really make me irritated about mt ... i have made a forum post to try to discover why a friend of mine was banned. It's a natural reaction if a friend gets a problem i think. Well at the end , jinzhou pointed clearly why she was banned and it's all application of new rules ; but well if they are well stated, i'll accept. Even the "spam" she had done was considerated as spam due to "bad quality". What confuses me, is that last week, i had a talk with biriwilg about "banning due to bad quality" ; and she said me it will not occur ... so the rules have again changed. Well i can accept this if rules are well stated again.but what i can't accept is the way a person talked to all of us who only wanted to find "the truth". it's really irrespectuous. in moderators , there is also the word moderate no ? and if we, little users say one little thing that could irritate him then we haven't any chance. I can understand such petitions posts are annoying BUT i made it by my own decision because that's what a friend should do. I think some diplomacy is also needed here to be a moderator
i have stayed polite ; i have asked nice questions ... so i don't deserve such behaviour according to me

this is too conclude on the current sentences of the faq but i think this point has now been corrected ... i saw it two days ago and today it seems to be changed.
it went about doujinshi : if your work is crap then it is removed
i'm thankful that this sentence has been corrected

well i have finished ; i must say i agree to rules ; but some changes are necessary. that's why i have posted my remarks on this post

thank you

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Alpha

Alpha

DreamMaster

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Quote by shinsengumi

Quote by Alphawell finally Sammo we are agree in everything, good point and I suggest to remove the level if it is possible to prevent this behavior.

When a submission is deleted, a user's level does go down.

And what is the problem pal.

Albiore

Albiore

Webmaster

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Greetings:

I think is is a good idea... but it will take a "little" time to make it. If you (the owners) make a beta, you can test the results.

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