The Spear of Destiny and a Jesus Clone

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alright, so, Im an atheist..but even I know Jesus was an actual living being, but I refuse to believe he is the son of the non-existant god. Those of you who don't know the story;

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The Spear of Destiny, also known as the Spear of Longinus and the Heilige Lance — Holy Lance — is one of the most important Christian relics of the Passion of Jesus Christ. As first described in John 19:31-37, the Spear was used by a Roman soldier (Gaius Cassius, later called Longinus) to pierce the side of Christ as he hung on the cross. The Spear, bathed in the blood of the Lamb and playing a significant role in the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, is believed to have acquired tremendous mystical power. The first sign of that power was the purported healing of Gaius Cassius’s failing eyesight by blood from the wound. The centurion later become an early convert to Christianity.

the was last in the possesion of Adolf Hitler and was recovered by the Allied Forces and its current location is unnknown. Now yes..I know the spear is supposed to hold magical powers and hold the destiny of the world...hence "spear of destiny", but Im not interested in that..since I hardly believe it is more than a mere scrap of metal. But today, as I watched Constantine..a horrible movie btw, the idea struck me. DNA can stay intact for millions of years...so, assumming Jesus was actually stabbed by it, and it did not undergo some extensive cleaning, with today's technology a clone could be possible. Now sounds crazy neh? but..if a clone does recieve its hosts memories...wouldn't solve many religious arguments.

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Ah, i read about that.. And saw constatine as well. Very intersting things about life to know^.^

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Im an athiest, i dotn even think that jesus was a real person, just someone history desided to make up.
A for the lance of longinus, i for soem reason believe in such a relic. So im kinda at a standstill with the bible. Great, now you've confused me
Cheers


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  • Aug 26, 2005

AngelXXX

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Quote by toxictea23Ah, i read about that.. And saw constatine as well. Very intersting things about life to know^.^


I haven't read about that. I have alo seen constatine... it was good...

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Quote by AdventSXIm an athiest, i dotn even think that jesus was a real person, just
someone history desided to make up.
A for the lance of longinus, i for soem reason believe in such a relic.
So im kinda at a standstill with the bible. Great, now you've confused
me
Cheers


the bible is a very valuabe source of historical facts, although it also feeds you a huge load of bedtime stories you should be able to tell them apart from the real deal, its a fact that jesus was a real man.

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CowboyBebopFreak

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whoa.. Of course if Jesus could be cloned, a clone can't be an exact doppleganger of the original person. It has flaws/diseases. Well I don't think the Lord really appreciates clonin' since if humans can create on their own.. which God spent 7 days doing then that is like the biggest slap in the face to our Creator. X.x
There's something in Bible that says something along the lines that even if you do something good that is considered evil it shouldn't be so or something like that. ^_^'
Interestin' thread though.. ;)

  • Aug 26, 2005
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Quote by CowboyBebopFreakwhoa.. Of course if Jesus could be cloned, a clone can't be an exact
doppleganger of the original person. It has flaws/diseases. Well I
don't think the Lord really appreciates clonin' since if humans can
create on their own.. which God spent 7 days doing then that is like
the biggest slap in the face to our Creator. X.x There's something in
Bible that says something along the lines that even if you do something
good that is considered evil it shouldn't be so or something like that.
^_^' Interestin' thread though.. ;)


it would still be quite an experiment..even if its destined to be a failed one.

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RainOfStars

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Interesting. I saw Constatine on the day of its release^^

This is actually a very interesting idea, but I doubt it can be realized. First, as you said, the spear is missing. Second, even if it is found, who said that it actually the weapon that killed jesus. The bible is like a story passed down for generations. So of it might be based on truth, but most of it is probably fiction. Third, even though DNA can last a long time, it still gets damaged and it maybe impossible to retrieve.

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Quote by AdventSXIm an athiest, i dotn even think that jesus was a real person, just someone history desided to make up.
A for the lance of longinus, i for soem reason believe in such a relic. So im kinda at a standstill with the bible. Great, now you've confused me
Cheers


Jesus did existed... It was written in alot scripture left. Historians have also confirmed that he existed, just that they say that 'he is just a person living in that era and not the son of God.'.

Lol, I don't think any dead cells will be left. it's like 2000 years already, all trances of DNA would have been attacked and destroyed by bacteria and considering there is no preservatives of any sort on that spear... You could do it if you have a time machine. XD

  • Aug 26, 2005
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Quote by Seraphim84Lol, I don't
think any dead cells will be left. it's like 2000 years already, all
trances of DNA would have been attacked and destroyed by bacteria and
considering there is no preservatives of any sort on that spear... You
could do it if you have a time machine. XD

there is still a very slim possibility, 2000 years in science is really not much.

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cardmage

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As far as I know, the clone doesn't really recieve the original's memory. Sure, it'll have a lot of similarities with the original person and so on but I don't think memory can be cloned. Unless, of course, you can find his brain intact, which may make it quite interesting. Are the memories we feel and so on really stored in our brain and would the recreation of a body to host this brain make it so that the person will have these memories? I don't think anyone has really tried these things so we can't be sure, but blood can't hold our memories, so cloning Jesus from that would be a waste of time.

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Its the transition that is troublesome...

  • Aug 26, 2005
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well, its is true that cloning cannot re-create memories, but I disagree on the waste of time part...I mean...you'd be cloning Jesus...the so called son of God!

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cardmage

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Quote by SharinganKnightwell, its is true that cloning cannot re-create memories, but I
disagree on the waste of time part...I mean...you'd be clonging
Jesus...the so called son of God!

I guess it would get a lot of people interested. It would be highly controversial too. Would people see him as a "Son of God" then? I wonder if christians who got hold of this idea would think of cloning as against God's will and thus reject this notion or think of cloning as something God has had in store for us so we could bring his son back to life. I'd think something like that would be fun. However, let me clarify why I would say it is a waste of time. Mostly, I don't think Jesus is anything really that special and he'll just turn out like any other normal person, so wasting huge resources for it would be kinda a waste.

Anyways, I'm agnostic. I'm not inclined to care if this or that was really true.

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Its the transition that is troublesome...

  • Aug 26, 2005
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I actually liked constantine, especially the hell scenes. They actually were supposedly trying to do this in "Amazing Nurse Nanako", if you watched that one. Unfortunately DNA won't last unless it is protected or frozen for this long, and a humans complete memory isn't carried in a few cells. It would be interesting. However, Jesus is only supposed to be the son of God incarnate. I don't recall any stories that relate that his body was anything other than human. Certainly are alot of atheist around, not complaining just noticing.

  • Aug 26, 2005
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we travel in packs...<_<

well, its true he is much of a celebirty..just another person. But he's a celeb for historical and religious reasons, it would be a much interesting experiment than cloning a random guy off the streets. Then there would be the whole soul deal...if Jesus did in fact come back to life..and then later on go heaven, then there would be 2 of them....@_@

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Haha, I do agree that it is quite a waste of time in cloning another Jesus out.

1) There is a huge chance of creating a deformed 1 and are you telling me that they could identify the DNA of Jesus? The spear must have stabbed more people than 1 during it's formal glory. (Modern cloning tech is still not that advance yet)

2) The cloned do not have any memory of the original one, not to even say habit, thinking, etc...

3) Who the hell is willing to invest in it when it doesn't really benefit him/her.

4) Human rights' issue will arise. I wonder will you be happy if you'r being cloned and your clone goes around screwing up your reputation.

  • Aug 26, 2005
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Quote by Seraphim84Haha, I do agree that it is quite a waste of time in cloning another
Jesus out.
1) There is a huge chance of creating a deformed 1 and are you telling
me that they could identify the DNA of Jesus? The spear must have
stabbed more people than 1 during it's formal glory. (Modern cloning
tech is still not that advance yet)


well, you can clone them all

Quote by Seraphim84
2) The cloned do not have any memory of the original one, not to even
say habit, thinking, etc...


I already said that....

Quote by Seraphim84
3) Who the hell is willing to invest in it when it doesn't really
benefit him/her.


this one is just retarded.. <_< Im sure theres tons of people who'd be quite interested in cloning a jesus


Quote by Seraphim84
4) Human rights' issue will arise. I wonder will you be happy if you'r
being cloned and your clone goes around screwing up your reputation.

thats kind of the whole point of it, its not worth doing anything unless you get some attention for it.

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Can I make a suggestion to any who are interested. This is a good topic i might add.

If you are willing to read this book it's a good book "Holy Blood Holy Grail" ! It a long book but interesting. The only problem is finding copies of it. most copies were burnt or destroyed after it was release so they don't have to many copies left. But if you do find it pick it up and read it. It has all the Jesus stuff and the holy grail, Knights Templar and other things of interest.

I reject your reality and substitute it with my own!!!

  • Aug 26, 2005
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Quote by SharinganKnight

Quote by Seraphim84Haha, I do agree that it is quite a waste of time in cloning another
Jesus out.1) There is a huge chance of creating a deformed 1 and are you telling
me that they could identify the DNA of Jesus? The spear must have
stabbed more people than 1 during it's formal glory. (Modern cloning
tech is still not that advance yet)

well, you can clone them all

Quote by Seraphim84
2) The cloned do not have any memory of the original one, not to even
say habit, thinking, etc...

I already said that....

Quote by Seraphim84
3) Who the hell is willing to invest in it when it doesn't really
benefit him/her.


this one is just retarded.. <_< Im sure theres tons of people who'd be quite interested in cloning a jesus

Quote by Seraphim84
4) Human rights' issue will arise. I wonder will you be happy if you'r
being cloned and your clone goes around screwing up your reputation.


thats kind of the whole point of it, its not worth doing anything unless you get some attention for it.

1) And you could identify who is Jesus if a 100 of them are cloned from a single DNA? Its not really reliable considering it will cost millions and a huge chance of creating a deformed 1 out of the DNA. (So they normally create more than 1)

3) I still don't see why many people are willing to invest in it. The risks are very high and the return isn't really good (Refer to 1). its against human's right. What are you going to do with the extra clones? Sell their organs?

  • Aug 26, 2005

Shkira

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If that's the case, then why Jesus? Why start up a worldwide issue with conflicting religions and such? Instead, I say bring to life a truly great man who really made a difference, someone no one can deny. Think revolutionists, or the fore-fathers. For what purpose? None really, other than it'd be kindda cool to see them walking around, I guess.

bloodphoenix

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another problem that would arise is that if he actually had his memories at least one religion would be proved false and these religions have a lot of devout followers so what would they do if they found out that what they had belived to be true was false there would be quite a bit of panic from something like that

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  • Aug 26, 2005

IcyBlade

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yeah that was a thing that must we know.....Hitler.................................Adolf has it's clone?!

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This is a stupid thread. Ok... So we clone Jesus... and... we get a normal human being, or umm normal clone human. I mean, what would make him different from any other person? It's not like he has "holy dna" or "mega alterboy genes" (*dna2 reference*). I mean, it doesn't matter how perfect you replicate him, or what technology you use, you just can't replicate holiness. Holiness is up for god to decide, and if God wants another Jesus then we'll get one. If he doesn't, then crap for us.

Wtf is your problem?!?

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  • Aug 26, 2005

Berserker13

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I am also an atheist..................What you say is true...........DNA can be extracted fro the "believed" spear that pierced Jesus.......But can an clone of a human can really be done???

"Makes you what to wonder if" Partial quote by Andrew Waltfeld (a war will only end when all your enemies are DEAD")
Let's c so far only a sheep was cloned sucessfully.........even that caused controversi

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Pure is Impure~Impure is Pure~To live is to DIE~To Die is to LIVE

  • Aug 26, 2005

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