[Death is the absence of life]

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I don't know if there's something like this already on here, but it really is amazing. The following is an atheist professor of philosophy who is speaking to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new students to stand and.....

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student: Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student : Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student :Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student: No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student: From...God...

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make
everything.
Correct?

Student: Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?

All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student: No , sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelled your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.

Student: And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student: No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. here is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,flashing light.... But if you ave no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker,wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)
Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelled it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain,sir. With all
due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures,sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student: That is it, sir... The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.


Can you believe that student was ALBERT EINSTEIN? It totally makes sense...I can tell you this, it totally changed the way I see things now O_O.

I hope you enjoy and comments on it would be well-read...and...appreciated by me cause I would like to read them ^____^

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I've probably heard 50 different versions of this story by now....

It's not an Einstein quote genius

In his Autobiographical Notes, he states that even though his Jewish family was not religious, he developed a "deep religiosity" as Jewish child that came to an end when he was 12. He says he developed a skeptical attitude that never left him. He made reference to "God" on many occasions but also said he did not believe some of the stories in the Bible and did not believe in a personal God.


I'm glad your way of thinking has been totally changed by email spam. There's also a prince in Nigeria that wants to give you lots of money, perhaps you should get on that right now.

Anyway you can't call evil the lack of god since god is supposedly all powerful, all knowing and all present. If god doesn't have power to stop evil then he's no longer god. The argument is flawed. It's also crushed on a number of other different levels in various topics on this very forum. Your god created the search function, use it.

Infact, just because I'm so sick of this story I'm going to take a little extra time to squash it even further...


"There are many confusions in that proof, which you had sent me before. Remember a meaning of a term is determined by its usage. First, there is a difference between cold and absolute zero. And absolute zero doesn't exist, but cold does. The absences of light in a space does exist. That too is different than darkness, and darkness exist (if it didn't we would use the term). Third, there is evil, for just like cold, darkness it is defined by our usage. The usage determines its meaning. The Christians have defined there God in a certain way. The question embedded in the discussion by the professor is one of whether this definition of God is in conflict with observable reality on the question of evil. They also defined their good as omnipotent, omniscient and perfectly good. Since there is evil, there is a conflict; and it is one that won't go away. Finally, since they claim that their God created all things, then it created evil. This is made a fortiori inexcusable given their god being omniscient. God, as the professor pointed out, therefore deliberately created evil, and thus is evil.

The Gnostic Christians had a better solution, that Yahweh was a lesser (imperfect god) who didn't take the advice of Sophie the highest god and created man. No amount of sophistry can undo the fact that the Christian definition is in conflict with observed reality and the meaning of the terms that describe that reality.

Finally, Einstein did not believe in a personal god; moreover, he probably did not have believed in a god period - though he didn't want to admit that and deal with the intolerance of the Christians. There are a few lines in a letter that imply that he was an atheist, or an agnostic....

'From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being.'

The end "The young man's name - Albert Einstein. A true story", is just one more example of the little regard for both truth and logic those of faith have. "


More about Einstein.....

1."I believe...not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?" Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J. Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter 3.

2."I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A. Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)

3."I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

4."It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

5."Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being."
-- Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray. Source: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann

6.And finally, my favorite which blows this whole story out of the water: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press"


The story also has no biblical support.....

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7).

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" (Lam. 3:38).

"...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3).

"...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin" (Jer. 36:3).

"I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts...." (Ezek. 20:25-26).

"For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer. 32:42).

"...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).

See also: Jer. 11:11, 14:16, 18:11, 19:3, 19:15, 23:12, 26:13, 26:19, 35:17, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 42:17, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64, Ezek. 6:10, Micah 2:3, 1 Kings 21:29, 2 Chron. 34:24, and 2 Chron. 34:28


So there you have it. If this story really had an effect on you then you should now be back to whatever you were before you read it, or even further back. Thanks for playing.

  • Jul 19, 2006

CyberDragoon

The Prince of Nothing

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Quote:
Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

Evolution is observed through changes in genetic information between generations. Such as when bacteria get more and more resistant to antibiotics. You can't see radio waves but you can obviously measure it using other instruments besides your eyes.

Quote: Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

We forget the fact that without a brain the professor wouldn't be able to move or talk so it's clear that the prof. has a brain. It's an indirect observation. How do you know that I have a heart? Well you can feel my pulse and I'm still alive so it's clear that I have a beating heart. You can even take a CAT scan of me to see my heart if you want. You can cut me open a little and put a small camera in if you really really wanted to. You don't have to witness evolution first-hand. You can come to the conclusions of evolution from indirect observation and reason.

Quote:
Can you believe that student was ALBERT EINSTEIN? It totally makes sense...I can tell you this, it totally changed the way I see things now O_O.

Einstein may or may not have said that. However, you're using an argument using an authority figure. Basically you're saying that since so and so said this and since he's so smart he MUST BE RIGHT. This is completely untrue. Einstein has been wrong on many occasions. For instance when quantum physics came out Einstein thought that it had to be wrong. The universe had to be orderly not chaotic and random like quantum physics predicts. However, ideas such as the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle is still true to this day despite Einstein's best efforts. Einstein also spent the last 30 or so years of his life trying to unify quantum mechanics as well as general relativity to make a so-called Theory of Everything. He died without success.

Even if he did say these things the fact of the matter is that Einstein is and forever will be an AGNOSTIC.

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

Albert Einstein, in a letter March 24, 1954; from Albert Einstein the Human Side, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, eds., Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1981, p. 43.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

Albert Einstein in a letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 216.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_einstein.html

As you can see Einstein held no belief in God.

The basic premise you're arguming is that we view God too narrowly. We think that he can only be ALL good or ALL bad. He can't be in-between. Does God do bad things?

Isaiah 45:7 New International Version

7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

God creates disasters for us humans. Sure it's open to interpretation but it's clear that earthquakes and hurricanes are not humanity's fault. These natural disasters have been happening since forever. God knows that they will happen and many will suffer. Doesn't sound too compassionate to me if he just lets them suffer even young children. You can't really say that God is absent from the lives of the suffering because God is suppose to be everywhere. He's in the rocks. He's in the trees. He's in the 100 ft tsunamis. He's in the hurricanes. He made all those things. The absence of God does not create hurricanes. Since God makes everything then he must have made the hurricanes too.

Now the only question is how is it compassionate and good of God to send hurricanes our way?

  • Jul 19, 2006
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Oh so I guess it isn't really Albert? Oh well. It was still neat in my opinion.

GearStalker05

GearStalker05

En Memoria

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Whether it was him, or it wasn't, it still turned out pretty interesting. I mean, the whole clash between science and faith has always caught my interest...

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You got what you wanted...but you got what you hate...

  • Jul 19, 2006

Yu-huang

Yu-huang

The Jade Emperor

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Very interesting read.
Thank you very much for sharing.

When Darkness Falls, All is quiet in the Mist of the Night.

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Quote by Yu-huangVery interesting read.
Thank you very much for sharing.


I've never thought about things in that perspective....

*?~}-^'!:°?_|"

  • Jul 20, 2006

Persocom01

Persocom01

Seeker of the Truth

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Quote by CyberDragoonEvolution is observed through changes in genetic information between generations. Such as when bacteria get more and more resistant to antibiotics. You can't see radio waves but you can obviously measure it using other instruments besides your eyes.

Only microevolution is observable. The link between micro and macroevolution remains a topic of scientific debate till today. Einstein certainly wasn't an Atheist. Although he didn't believe in a personal God, he did believe in "a superior reasoning power", a kind of God.

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive With our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible Universe, forms my idea of God." - Quoted in the New York Times obituary April 19, 1955

On Atheists:
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." - Prince Hubertus zu Lowenstein, Towards the Further Shore (Victor Gollancz, London, 1968), p. 156; quoted in Jammer, p. 97

He apparently respected the teachings of Christianity even though he didn't practice them:
"If one purges the Judaism of the Prophets and Christianity as Jesus taught it of all subsequent additions, especially those of the priests, one is left with a teaching which is capable of curing all the social ills of humanity." - Albert Einstein

Referances: http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/index.html
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

  • Jul 20, 2006

CyberDragoon

The Prince of Nothing

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Quote by Persocom01On Atheists:
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." - Prince Hubertus zu Lowenstein, Towards the Further Shore (Victor Gollancz, London, 1968), p. 156; quoted in Jammer, p. 97

Isn't that quote by Prince Hubertus zu Lowenstein and not Einstein?

  • Jul 20, 2006
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Quote by Persocom01Only microevolution is observable. Blah blah blah...

You're like a disease going from thread to thread parroting your misinformation. There are a million other threads debating evolution, why would you bring it here? It so amazingly irrelevent to the thread.

Quote: Albert Einstein blah blah blah

The point is that story is a lie from start to finish. Einstein sided with neither organized religion nor atheism, so stop pretending like he's somehow on your side. If anything he developed his own little religion where he didn't have to be associated with christians/jews and still be able to believe in a higher power (albeit an irrelevent one to humans).

  • Jul 20, 2006

Persocom01

Persocom01

Seeker of the Truth

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Quote by CyberDragoonIsn't that quote by Prince Hubertus zu Lowenstein and not Einstein?

You don't need to believe me, you can check the quote by yourself. It is by Einstein.

Quote by PlunkiesThe point is that story is a lie from start to finish. Einstein sided with neither organized religion nor atheism, so stop pretending like he's somehow on your side. If anything he developed his own little religion where he didn't have to be associated with christians/jews and still be able to believe in a higher power (albeit an irrelevent one to humans).

I don't think the story itself is from Einstein, and I never said it was.

Quote by PlunkiesFinally, Einstein did not believe in a personal god; moreover, he probably did not have believed in a god period - though he didn't want to admit that and deal with the intolerance of the Christians. There are a few lines in a letter that imply that he was an atheist, or an agnostic....

You are a hypocrite for accusing me of pretending that Einstein is on my side. You misrepresent his beliefs and even said that he probably did not believe in God.

  • Jul 21, 2006
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Quote by Persocom01You don't need to believe me, you can check the quote by yourself. It is by Einstein.

Heh, read your own post again. You missed his point.

Quote: I don't think the story itself is from Einstein, and I never said it was.

Did I SAY you thought the story was from Einstein? No.

Quote: You are a hypocrite for accusing me of pretending that Einstein is on my side. You misrepresent his beliefs and even said that he probably did not believe in God.

Where?

  • Jul 21, 2006
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whether this is true or not, i admire the fact that the student actually went and talked right into the face of the professor... :sweat: i wish i cud b that brave..

anywayz.. i don't really "know" Einstein... and i don't really care bout him (partially because i haven't learned anything he did ^_^')

  • Jul 21, 2006
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Quote: whether this is true or not, i admire the fact that the student actually went and talked right into the face of the professor...

Yes fictional people sure are brave! Oh well, he sounds more like a community college professor at best.

I admire the fact that the faithful are still upholding the tradition of concocting elaborate lies to trick stupid people into believing in their god. A long time ago every church had some religious relic like a piece of the cross, a toenail from jesus, the spear that stabbed him, the shirt he wore, etc etc. Nowadays it's email spam and the miracles of preachers "curing" actors of fake diseases while the real sick people are never allowed within 100 feet of him or the camera.

  • Jul 21, 2006
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that is one thing that i have not thought of.
thanks for sharing.

My your light and dark Ka form the perfect BA.


http://www.mindistortion.net/iwantyoursoul/?i_am=danielbgrisso

  • Jul 25, 2006
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Wait a minute... So we should all believe in god because Einstein, who was smart supposedly believed in god. Talk about flawed logic.

And for those of you who think that we can only observe evolution through minute genetic changes, please read The Beak of the Finch by Jonathan Weirner.

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