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There was an article in Reuters where a Thai Buddisht monk castrated himself because he had male biological reaction during meditation. Furthermore, the monk declined to have it reattach saying he renounces all earthly care.
I was floored when I read that article. How could he be so harsh to himself for something that is beyond his control? I'm having problem understanding this.
Well there you go... some religious extremist...
To tell you the truth its all because he has faith in his religion that he will sacrifice anything to abide to it...
even castrating... When people become monks.. they take everthing as a sort of test of will and control so when
something that is termed as "forbidden" like having sexual fantasies comes their way... they would do the
unthinkable that most men wont do and castrate... Violating their rules would be a great sin to them.... they only fear
what comes afterlife and not in the life they live in now... So basically losing what make them male in this life seem
nothing to them... and Lol buddy monks dont get married XD
At the end of the day, i would always turn around and say.... "Egao Saku... "
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We would term this action as "unthinkable" because the majority of people wouldn't think of doing this to themselves. For a man to castrate himself, for whatever his reasons, isn't, as far as I'm concerened, a negative thing. If, in this instance, it helps him to beome better at what he believes is important, then let him be. I consider it as unfortunate, purely out of a "chauvinistic" male, subjective, I-think-with-my-balls-perspective. I don't think of it as terrible to castrate yourself. Thats your and his buisiness. If he believes it makes him better, and if his community supports him, then I'd say "good on yer!" (but with a touch of pity).
I have a general rule for life: You can do whatever you want, whenever you want, no matter how unthinkable, as long as you don't hurt, damage, or upset other people. So you can do whatever you want to yourself (he could have eaten his own bits for all I care), but its when other people are unwillingly hurt in the process that I draw the line.
I studied a lot about religions and the important thing to remember is that you can't judge someone else of a diffrerebnt culture or religion by means of your own culture and religion. Just because I, in my current ideology, don't want my bits cut off, doesn't mean I have to like the way someone else tries to reach his full meditative potential. Each to his own.
Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.
As one on the internet will say:" LOOK AT ME! I AM SO HAAARRRRDDDKKKKOOOORRRREEEE! " it is all good to renounce desire for the love of peace and meditating harmony, but I guess it means some people go through an even stronger sense. Trust me, I think this monk has a lot more to look forward to, I am sure it is a matter of To each his own. At least he is not molesting little choir boys like some of those archbishops. C'mon, give the man some praise for daring do what others don't.
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The wind of destiny blows, and the descendant shall walk the earth once more...
WHAT?! I can't believe what I'm reading! So, if you see a man trying to commit suicide trowing himself from a building you'd say: "It's Ok, he can do whatever he wants, is his life. Each to his own".
This isn't a manifestacion of respect for religious freedom. It's more like cold indiference. "While I can do whatever I want, I'll let everyone do whatever they want".
Now, imagine that this monk is a close friend. Or your brother. What would you tell him? What wuold be you advice? "Yeah, rigth. Whatever"
Oooh, how we've lost the path.
As far as I know, no religion that is practiced nowadays would admit mutilation, since Human body is sacred to many.
What this monk needed was advice from some kind of superior or authority in his religion. Or serious medical help. Perhaps being a monk wasn't his thing. He could have been a good family man.
Quote by mireya2WHAT?! I can't believe what I'm reading! So, if you see a man trying to commit suicide trowing himself from a building you'd say: "It's Ok, he can do whatever he wants, is his life. Each to his own".
This isn't a manifestacion of respect for religious freedom. It's more like cold indiference. "While I can do whatever I want, I'll let everyone do whatever they want".
Now, imagine that this monk is a close friend. Or your brother. What would you tell him? What wuold be you advice? "Yeah, rigth. Whatever"
Just because I believe this, doesn't mean you have to. OIts a philosophy that works for me and it has its origins in my own anthropological and cultural interests. And please, don't overstate "While I can do whatever I want, I'll let everyone do whatever they want".
Quote by joemighty16...as long as you don't hurt, damage, or upset other people.
This topic is more than just seeing someone trying to jump of a building - its cultural and even religious. Do you seriously want to judge a person's acts out of your own frame of referance? I agree that this monk should have listened to what his fellow monks, superiors, and family would have said. But, sharing the same culture and belief, how do you know that this monk didn't convince them that he'd rather meditate in a clear mind than have a hard-on to distract him. Its just an extreme form of celibacy. Just because YOU don't understand it, doesn't mean YOU have to agree to it.
If that monk's family or fellow monks dissuaded him from castrating himself, then thats better than someone from the opposite end of the earth, from an entirely different culture and ideology (I'm not even refering to religion here), to be upset about it.
My own stance on self mutilation is that it is unfortunate and unnecassary. Usually it is to atrack attention, otherwise it is a stress reliever. I have known some self mutilators and they were adamant that it felt really good and that it helped them cope with stress. I reel at the thought, but if it works for them, then let them be. I admit that if my best friend were self mutilator then I would definately urge him to get help or at least try to talk him out of it. But if he refuses help - then what? I can't force help on him if he doesn't want it.
Therefore, no. It is not cold indiffidence, but tolerance and acceptance. Accept this monk as a human who tries to do the best he can. Respect him for the lengths he's willing to go through for bettering himself. To use the old cliche, "walk a mile in someone else's shoes". Try to think like they do. Just because you don't agree or can't imagine it doesn't make it wrong.
Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.
Man, I have to admit it, I felt in your cheap trap.
You just waited that someone with a minimum common sense posted here so you could rise yourself as the almigthy Champion of the Own Cultural Frame and the Interculture Tolerance.
If it weren't that way, and given that you are so sure of your answer, you wouldn't have named the thread with a question: "Going too far?" but "Castrated and loving it!" That would attracted more people.
But you chose the wrong example. You haven't get the whole context.
First of all, you have to agree that the monk wasn't in his whole capacity of making such a decition. I don't find the rigth word in English, but I'll stay with that description in order to not call him plainly "insane". Let's grant him that if not for the little thing of the castration, he would have lived a normal life.
But, because he wasn't, as we say in Mexico "completely in his five senses", that takes him out of any cultural frame, and makes it a medical case in his land, in Germany, the States, China or whatever the place. What the guy needed was phsyquiatric help.
If those monks were to castrate in order to reach perfection, it wouldn't had been in the news in the first place. Perhaps in Ripley's, but not in the news. So, none can say he acted inside the normal cultural frame of his people.
Now, indeed he's hurting and damaging other people. He has introduced doubt in his community. He's divided opinions. Now wait until he advices younger monks to do the same.
If there were any people around his comunity who for whatever the reason wanted to discredit the monks, he has put a new weapon in their hands. Now they are "radicals".
You can bet the simple and normal people that lived next to those monks are also divided and confused. It's called
"escandal". "Is that the way to reach perfection?" The CONSECUENCES of that incident won't
reach us, the hot thing has already passed, but that comunity is already hurt.
Any religious authority, IN ANY RELIGION, has to set an example, and that example includes to live with your healty organs. Temptation is part of the game, and if he needed a crutch as mutilation to win over temptation, it's because maybe being a monk wasn't his thing.
I know what I'm talking about because I have been a catequist for more that 18 years, and I have lived with my thingies for my whole 33 years.
Because I talk of God to children, I can't be going to bed with whoever I find at the disco each weekend. And pay attention to this words, because they're not easy to write for a man my age, even under a username: I'm still a virgin, because I got caugth in this thing since I was a teen. I don't know if tomorrow I'll lose it, but I hope to get to marriage this way (I don't care if my wife is virgin or not -what a hope!- this desition I apply it to myself), if someone still wants my carcass then.
Now, having embarrased myself, let's consider other things.
Cultural frames have to be respected, I agree, but everything has a limit. Dictated by whom? By elemental COMMON SENSE and Human Rigths.
How about the girls who get their external sex organs amputated, without anestesia and with infection guaranteed at age five, in the small towns of Somalia? Respect that "cultural frame" for what? To fit men's cultural perception of how a woman shold be? After each birth, they're sewed again. Those women suffer infection and pain every month during almost their whole life.
How about child abuse in Southeast Asia? That started as a local problem, because in some cultures children are iniciated in sex at early age. But now that pederast all over the world have discovered that, they have made it their paradise. And children became prostitutes, exploted by mafias.
Should we leave those "cultural frames" alone? Now that's a good and real question, instead of "Going too far?"
Let me state first that if you, mireya2, read the first post you'll notice that I didn't create this thread. I gave my opinion on someone else's question.
Quote by mireya2You just waited that someone with a minimum common sense posted here so you could rise yourself as the almigthy Champion of the Own Cultural Frame and the Interculture Tolerance.
So I'm going to ignore this attack on my alleged "Holier than Though" (as I deduce it) attitude. Like yourself I browsed through the forum topics and found this thread to be interesting and I voiced my attitude towards it accordingly.
Secondly I must admit that all I know of this monk was what mughi said in the first posting. I didn't follow the background up - I know no more than what mughi mentioned and what you added above. I can't argue with facts since I don't have any. I merely argued the principle from my own frame of mind.
Now.....I do agree with you that there are extreme cases of mutilation as parts of rituals and initiation ceremonies. People, still to this day, do horrible things to each other as part of their culture. In your more extermists religions you get people who will punish themselves in order to atone for their sins. Such events may end op litteraly in a blood-bath (no casualties though). We may look in horror at the (in our mind) needless spilling of blood. Now whether that is Right or Wrong (note the capital letters) is a different matter.
Quote by mireya2Cultural frames have to be respected, I agree, but everything has a limit. Dictated by whom? By elemental COMMON SENSE and Human Rigths.
The problem with common sense is that it isn't universal. Its relative. Common sense differs from one society to a next.
But this topic originated from mutilating yourself. I believe I was quite clear on the mutilation of others:
Quote by joemighty16...as long as you don't hurt, damage, or upset other people.
When I first started taking an interest in cultures (in particular ancient cultures) I made the rule never to judge any act - be it actions, be it beliefs. This rule has kept me going 'till today - I don't judge anything.
Life is a game played by gods who are bored and who fight over the rules.
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