How Should Religion Be Measured?

Are all religions acceptable to God?

No, there must be only one true religion...
15 votes
Yes, they're all acceptable
9 votes
I don't know...
2 votes

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DarkIngram

DarkIngram

Urzu 7

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World history must give us pause and make us wonder what role religion has played in the many wars that have devastated mankind and caused untold suffering. T_T Why have so many people killed and been killed in the name of religion? X-O The Crusades, the Inquisition, the conflicts in the Middle East and Northern Ireland, the slaughter between Iraq and Iran (1980-88), the Hindu-Sikh clashes in India--all these events certainly make thinking people raise questions about religious beliefs and ethics...

The realm of Christendom has been noteworthy for its hypocrisy in this field. In two world wars, Catholic has killed Catholic and Protestant has killed Protestant at the behest of their "christian" political leaders. >=(

Buddhism
Buddhist teachings are vague and the interpretation varies from one person to another. Japanese Buddhism is quite different from the Buddhism of Southeast Asia. Individuals, too, differ as to their viewpoint: Buddhism does not recognize an external God, a personal Creator. But many Buddhists worship images and relics of Buddha. Siddhartha Gautama, who was given the title Buddha, came to be viewed as the religious ideal of his followers, to be imitated by them. He encouraged gaining enlightenment by studying mankind from a human standpoint, also severing the roots of suffering by controlling the mind so as to eliminate all earthly desire. He taught that in this way one might attain to Nirvana, free from the rebirths of transmigration. Buddhists worship their ancestors, because they view these as the source of their life...

Hinduism
Hindu philosophy is very complex and does not conform to normal logic: Hinduism teaches that the god Brahman includes three forms--Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Siva the Destroyer. But Hindus do not think of a personal god with an individual existence. Hindus believe that all natural objects possess a soul that never dies, that the soul experiences a virtually endless cycle of reincarnation, that the forms in which it is reborn are determined by deeds (Karma), that release from this "endless wheel" is possible only by extinguishing all physical desire, and that if this is achieved, the soul will merge with the universal spirit. In general, Hindus respect other religions. Hindus believe that, in spite of the fact that they teach conflicting doctrines, all religions lead to the same truth...

Judaism
Religious Jews view the pronouncing of God's name as forbidden. Many Jews think of "the Bible" as a Christian book, but if you refer to "the Hebrew Scriptures," "the Scriptures," or "the Torah," that problem does not arise. Tradition is a central part of their faith and is viewed by many religious Jews as equal in authority with the Scriptures. They may associate Jesus Christ with the brutal persecution experienced by the Jews at the hands of Christendom in the name of Jesus. They frequently believe that God requires the Jews to keep the Sabbath, which belief includes refraining from handling money on that day...

Islam
The Koran is their principal "holy book." Some will agree that the Bible is God's Word, but they believe that it is superseded by the Koran. They believe that there is only one true God. They say that Jesus was one of the prophets, as was Muhammad, and that Muhammad (570-632 C.E.) was the Comforter foretold by Jesus. They believe Muhammad was the last and most important prophet. They strongly believe that God has no son...

Christendom
Believes in trinity, immortality of the soul, purgatory, hellfire, they go to heaven if they're good, political & war involvement, worshipping images, clergy, sometimes uses the Bible but they're following pagan celebrations & traditions of men...

Christianism
Worships the only true God, Jehovah. Offers access to God by means of Christ Jesus. Teaches and practices unselfish love. Remains untainted by worldly politics and conflicts. It is neutral in time of war. Lets God be true by accepting the Bible as God's Word. Does not condone war or personal violence. Successfully unites people of every race, language, and tribe. :D It does not preach nationalism or hatred, but love. Advocates serving God, not for selfish gain or a salary, but out of love. It does not glorify men. It glorifies God. Proclaims the Kingdom of God as man's sure hope, not some political or social philosophy. Teaches the truth regarding God's purpose for man and the earth. It does not teach the religious lies of immortal soul and eternal torment in hell. It teaches that God is love... :D
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If religion is "the expression of man's belief in and reverence for a superhuman power recognized as the creator and governor of the universe," as one dictionary states, then surely the question should be, 'Is my religion good enough for the creator and governor of the universe?' Also, in that case, the Creator would have the right to establish what is acceptable conduct, worship, and doctrine and what is not. To do that, he must reveal his will to mankind, and that revelation must be easily available and accessible to all...

This presents a challenge to each person--to examine the evidence and prove for oneself what the acceptable will of God is... let's compare them with your religion... :D How should religion be measured?

Mnemeth

Mnemeth

Rider of the Currents

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I must say first of that those are some pretty interesting summaries of several major world religions.

Quote by DarkIngramWhy have so many people killed and been killed in the name of religion?

Well thats kinda a misrepresentation seeing as 90+% of deaths attributed to religion can actaully be traced farther back to one of two main factors: 1. money (equaling land, booty, etc...) and 2. power (self-explanatory). Religion was basically nothing more than a tool and as such has gotten a pretty poor rap for it.

Quote by DarkIngramIf religion is "the expression of man's belief in and reverence for a superhuman power recognized as the creator and governor of the universe," as one dictionary states, then surely the question should be, 'Is my religion good enough for the creator and governor of the universe?' Also, in that case, the Creator would have the right to establish what is acceptable conduct, worship, and doctrine and what is not. To do that, he must reveal his will to mankind, and that revelation must be easily available and accessible to all...

Actually I would sum it up much more simply. Can we live together peacefully accepting that we will disagree at times in our beliefs and actions? After all we are kinda stuck together on this rock (and will be for the near future).

As for me being raised as a Methodist and educated (grade school and high-school) as Catholic, its provided a rather interesting look at the multitude of differences between Protestants and Catholics, within the different Protestant religions, between Christianity and other religions (mostly Judaism and Islam although we did touch on other religions (Taoism, Buddhism, Hindu, etc...) and in recent history the multitude of differences between members of the same base religion (mostly Islam seeing as I had already seen most of the different groups within Christianity). I find that the funny thing is Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all trace back to the same roots (i.e. technically the same God, regardless of name) and differ basically on 1 key issue; Whether or not God sent his son to earth (Christianity = yes Jesus was the son of God, Islam = no but Jesus was in fact a great prophet who foretold Mohammad (sp?), Judaism = still waiting for the son of God) All the other differences can be directly associated with when the different religions separated in their history. The Eastern religions seem to be much more nature based and I only know a small amount about them. I am also unaware of them being used as tools for war although I know that several of those religions were persecuted for political reasons at various times.

Do not interfere in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

  • Feb 19, 2007
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Quote: World history must give us pause and make us wonder what role religion has played in the many wars that have devastated mankind and caused untold suffering. T_T Why have so many people killed and been killed in the name of religion? X-O The Crusades, the Inquisition, the conflicts in the Middle East and Northern Ireland, the slaughter between Iraq and Iran (1980-88), the Hindu-Sikh clashes in India--all these events certainly make thinking people raise questions about religious beliefs and ethics...

The realm of Christendom has been noteworthy for its hypocrisy in this field. In two world wars, Catholic has killed Catholic and Protestant has killed Protestant at the behest of their "christian" political leaders. >=(


World War One and Two has nothing to do with religion. If they're killing their own kind or believers because of religion, that is hypcrisy. With the World War, it was partially because the people ordered them to, and partially because of political power and what not.

Quote: This presents a challenge to each person--to examine the evidence and prove for oneself what the acceptable will of God is... let's compare them with your religion... :D How should religion be measured?


Your summaries are beyond a biased point of view. You've done is mostly summarize the points of conflict and if not, you also "make" stuff to support your own ideas.

Also, you can actually consider confucionism a religion, or belief. There doesn't have to be a god to be a religion. Confucionism was brough upon by confucious. He taught about stuff that even a bible has. Morality and knowledge. One quote or proverb or whatever you want to call it. Of three people, they're all my teachers. Whether they're good or bad, I can learn something from each one of them. If you don't know what this means, then wow...

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  • Feb 19, 2007

BobaFett2ha

BobaFett2ha

Mandalore

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The theist vs. atheist debates here are already bad enough. The last thing I want to see is debates between different religions. Not only is it completely meaningless (as I'm an atheist), but it can become very offensive, very quickly.

"The ugly and thin cattle ate up the seven sleek and fat cattle." - Genesis 41:4

  • Feb 19, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by BobaFett2haThe theist vs. atheist debates here are already bad enough. The last thing I want to see is debates between different religions. Not only is it completely meaningless (as I'm an atheist), but it can become very offensive, very quickly.

LOL! True. Those can REALLY get out of hand sometimes. Let's just keep it at Atheist vs. Theist.

Quote by DarkIngramHow should religion be measured?

Well, first we would have to establish a purpose for religion so that it can be measured. I think we should ask ourselves what puspose religion serves in the world before we go about measuring it.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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Quote by DarkIngram
Christianism
Worships the only true God, Jehovah. Offers access to God by means of Christ Jesus. Teaches and practices unselfish love. Remains untainted by worldly politics and conflicts. It is neutral in time of war. Lets God be true by accepting the Bible as God's Word. Does not condone war or personal violence. Successfully unites people of every race, language, and tribe. :D It does not preach nationalism or hatred, but love. Advocates serving God, not for selfish gain or a salary, but out of love. It does not glorify men. It glorifies God. Proclaims the Kingdom of God as man's sure hope, not some political or social philosophy. Teaches the truth regarding God's purpose for man and the earth. It does not teach the religious lies of immortal soul and eternal torment in hell. It teaches that God is love... :D
___________________________________________(...)


This presents a challenge to each person--to examine the evidence and prove for oneself what the acceptable will of God is... let's compare them with your religion... :D How should religion be measured?

This is a very quick summary which shows that maybe you haven't read about this religion much and you have made a really hasty assumption or that you are confused. I will not say to you which the truth is. If you want, go and find it. I don't like preaching anyway... :D :D

As for your question...
How religion should be measured....
The answer lies within you. There is no measure. When you feel right and full in yourself, then you have found your religion. You have found the heavy and true religion. When you don't, you have found the fake and light religion.

One tip. Don't try to understand religion because everything that has to do with it, is out of everyone's knowledge. Try to accept a little more... :)

  • Feb 20, 2007
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Quote: The theist vs. atheist debates here are already bad enough. The last thing I want to see is debates between different religions. Not only is it completely meaningless (as I'm an atheist), but it can become very offensive, very quickly.


Yeah, that's true XD. Plus, whoever gets offended should actually say something about it. Just so people can be more cautious.

Quote: As for your question...
How religion should be measured....
The answer lies within you. There is no measure. When you feel right and full in yourself, then you have found your religion. You have found the heavy and true religion. When you don't, you have found the fake and light religion.

One tip. Don't try to understand religion because everything that has to do with it, is out of everyone's knowledge. Try to accept a little more... :)


This statement seems a tad weird but it makes sense but this is just someone's point of view.

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  • Feb 20, 2007

rorenzu

rorenzu

Mio Amakura

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Quote by This presents a challenge to each person--to examine the evidence and prove for oneself what the acceptable will of God is... let's compare them with your religion... How should religion be measured?

thru influence...
but comparing one religion to another would only lead to arguement and won't even give you clear answers, it would just lead to your own conclusions....

side comment*
but i don't think religion should be measured, after all, your religion won't save you...
because if it would, surely, i would convert myself to the religion that would save me...

Together...forever...
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  • Feb 20, 2007

DarkIngram

DarkIngram

Urzu 7

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Quote by MnemethWell thats kinda a misrepresentation seeing as 90+% of deaths attributed to religion can actaully be traced farther back to one of two main factors: 1. money (equaling land, booty, etc...) and 2. power (self-explanatory). Religion was basically nothing more than a tool and as such has gotten a pretty poor rap for it.

Not 90+% ^_^'

In accordance with the prophetic vision, Babylon the Great is the great whore that has led nations, peoples, and tribes into bloody wars, crusades, and vendettas, blessing them with incantations, holy water, prayers, and fiery patriotic speeches. (Revelation 18:24)

The "holy" Crusades (1096-1270), the Thirty Years' War in Europe (1618-48), two world wars, and the slaughter of some 200,000 Hindus and Muslims on the partition of India (1947) are just a few examples of religion's bloodguilt...

False religion continues to contribute to the bloodbath "of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth."

Quote: Actually I would sum it up much more simply. Can we live together peacefully accepting that we will disagree at times in our beliefs and actions? After all we are kinda stuck together on this rock (and will be for the near future).

Sad to say but it's impossible for man to live together peacefully with different religion... but I know we'll both agree Mnemeth that God soon will destroy false religions & unite all people in one form of worship--in the coming New World... :)

Quote: As for me being raised as a Methodist and educated (grade school and high-school) as Catholic, its provided a rather interesting look at the multitude of differences between Protestants and Catholics, within the different Protestant religions, between Christianity and other religions (mostly Judaism and Islam although we did touch on other religions (Taoism, Buddhism, Hindu, etc...) and in recent history the multitude of differences between members of the same base religion (mostly Islam seeing as I had already seen most of the different groups within Christianity). I find that the funny thing is Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all trace back to the same roots (i.e. technically the same God, regardless of name) and differ basically on 1 key issue; Whether or not God sent his son to earth (Christianity = yes Jesus was the son of God, Islam = no but Jesus was in fact a great prophet who foretold Mohammad (sp?), Judaism = still waiting for the son of God) All the other differences can be directly associated with when the different religions separated in their history. The Eastern religions seem to be much more nature based and I only know a small amount about them. I am also unaware of them being used as tools for war although I know that several of those religions were persecuted for political reasons at various times.

Yeah, but among all the teachings & books they're using, only the Bible holds the truth & accurateness... :)

Jehovah God is far more different to allah...

Eastern religion has also a bloodguilt, State Shinto was equipped with its idol as well. "Every morning, I clapped my hands toward the sun, the symbol of the goddess Amaterasu Omikami, and then faced east toward the Imperial Palace and worshiped the emperor," recalls Masato, an older Japanese man. The emperor was worshiped as god by his subjects. He was viewed as supreme politically and religiously by reason of his descent from the sun-goddess. One Japanese professor stated: "The Emperor is god revealed in men. He is manifest Deity."

As a result, the teaching was developed that "the center of this phenomenal world is the Mikado's [Emperor's] land. From this center we must expand this Great Spirit throughout the world. . . . The expansion of Great Japan throughout the world and the elevation of the entire world into the land of the Gods is the urgent business of the present and, again, it is our eternal and unchanging object." (The Political Philosophy of Modern Shinto, by D. C. Holtom) There was no separation of Church and State there!

In his book Man's Religions, John B. Noss comments: "The Japanese military were not slow in availing themselves of this point of view. They made it part of their war talk that conquest was the holy mission of Japan. Certainly in such words we may see the logical outcome of a nationalism infused with all the values of religion." What tragedy was sown for the Japanese and for other peoples, based mainly on the Shinto myth of the divinity of the emperor and the mixing of religion with nationalism! >_>

The Japanese in general did not have any alternative but to worship the emperor under State Shinto and its imperial system. Norinaga Motoori's teaching of 'Ask nothing, but submit to divine providence' permeated and controlled Japanese thinking. By 1941 the whole nation was mobilized into the war effort of World War II under the banner of State Shinto and in dedication to the "living man-god." 'Japan is a divine nation,' the people thought, 'and the kamikaze, the divine wind, will blow when there is a crisis.' Soldiers and their families petitioned their guardian gods for success in the war... -_-

When the "divine" nation was defeated in 1945, under the twin blows of the atomic annihilation of Hiroshima and much of Nagasaki, Shinto faced a severe crisis. Overnight, the supposedly invincible divine ruler Hirohito became simply the defeated human emperor. Japanese faith was shattered. Kamikaze had failed the nation. States the encyclopedia Nihon Shukyo Jiten: "One of the reasons was the nation's disappointment at being betrayed. . . . Worse yet, the Shinto world gave no religiously advanced and appropriate explanation of doubts that resulted from [defeat]. Thus, the religiously immature reaction of 'There is no god or Buddha' became the general trend."

The course that State Shinto trod highlights the need for each individual to investigate the traditional beliefs to which he adheres. Shintoists may have sought a way of harmony with their Japanese neighbors when they supported militarism. That, of course, did not contribute to worldwide harmony, and with their breadwinners and young ones killed in battle, neither did it bring domestic harmony. Before we dedicate our lives to someone, we must make sure to whom and to what cause we are offering ourselves. "I entreat you," said a Christian teacher to Romans who had previously been given to emperor worship, "to present your bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason." Just as the Roman Christians were to use their power of reason to choose to whom they should dedicate themselves, it is vital to use our power of reason to determine whom we should worship. (Romans 12:1, 2)

For Shintoists in general, the important factor in their religion was not the specific identification of one god. "For the common people," says Hidenori Tsuji, an instructor of Japanese religious history, "gods or Buddhas did not make any difference. Be they gods or Buddhas, as long as they heard supplications for a good crop, eradication of disease, and family safety, that was sufficient for the people." But did that lead them to the true God and his blessing? History's answer is clear...
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Quote by DarkRoseofHellWorld War One and Two has nothing to do with religion. If they're killing their own kind or believers because of religion, that is hypcrisy. With the World War, it was partially because the people ordered them to, and partially because of political power and what not.

Yeah, you're right...they're not killing their own kind or believers because of religion, but did you understand my point? False religion supports war... Indeed, the clergy of Christendom have been the most prominent members of Satan's seed...

"Hitler . . . had a Catholic as Vice-Chancellor and from practically the first day of the regime Franz von Papen became the drummer to attract the Catholic factions to a support of the new Reich. In every part of the Reich von Papen was to be heard exhorting the faithful to blind obedience to Adolf Hitler."

"In early 1933 the following official announcement was made by the body corporate of Catholic action and thought in Germany, then led by [Franz] von Papen: 'We German Catholics will stand, with all our soul and our full convictions, behind Adolf Hitler and his Government. We wonder at his love for fatherland, his energy and his statesmanly wisdom. . . . German Catholicism . . . must take an active part in the building-up of the Third Reich.'"

Franz von Papen was instrumental in achieving a concordat between the Nazi government he served in Germany and the Vatican in Rome. The concordat was signed July 20, 1933. A special communique stated: "Cardinal and Secretary of State Pacelli [later Pope Pius XII] to-day bestowed on Vice-Chancellor von Papen, the Grand Cross of the Order of Pius . . . Vice-Chancellor von Papen presented to the Cardinal Secretary of State a Madonna of White Meissen Porcelain as a gift of the Reichs Government. . . . All gifts bore the dedication: 'A memento of the Reich Concordat 1933.'"--All quotes taken from Franz von Papen--His Life and Times, by H. W. Blood-Ryan.

Quote: Your summaries are beyond a biased point of view. You've done is mostly summarize the points of conflict and if not, you also "make" stuff to support your own ideas.

How I became a biased if I'm only telling the truth?

Quote: Also, you can actually consider confucionism a religion, or belief. There doesn't have to be a god to be a religion. Confucionism was brough upon by confucious. He taught about stuff that even a bible has. Morality and knowledge. One quote or proverb or whatever you want to call it. Of three people, they're all my teachers. Whether they're good or bad, I can learn something from each one of them. If you don't know what this means, then wow...

Confucianism fails to satisfy one's spiritual needs; nor has it brought lasting peace and happiness. Confucianism has been labeled as feudalistic, promoting a slave mentality to keep people, especially women, under subjection...

It had a favorable attitude toward ancestor worship and placed great emphasis on the observance of the rites and ceremonies relating to the spirits of departed ancestors...

Its role as a religion has been reduced to the status of a national monument. In China at Ch'u-fou, the birthplace of Confucius, the State maintains the Temple of Confucius and family grounds as tourist attractions. There, according to the magazine China Reconstructs, performances are put on "reenacting a ritual of worship for Confucius." And in Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and other places in eastern Asia, people still celebrate Confucius' birthday...

In Confucianism and Taoism, we see how a system based on human wisdom and reasoning, no matter how logical and well-meaning, ultimately falls short in the search for the true God. Why? Because it leaves out one essential element, namely, the will and requirements of a personal God. Confucianism turns to human nature as the motivating force to do good, and Taoism turns to nature itself. But this is misplaced confidence because it simply amounts to worshiping created things rather than the Creator...
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Quote by ProgramZEROWell, first we would have to establish a purpose for religion so that it can be measured. I think we should ask ourselves what puspose religion serves in the world before we go about measuring it.

Nice point, we need to know what purposes of each religion so that it can be measured...

Some people think religion's purpose is just to make good men. Their view is: "If one is sincere in his religion, that is all that is expected of him." Others view religion as a drug for the mentally distressed or a help to those in trouble. They say: "All these religions fit some people's needs; if they are doing good, that is fine!" Still others who think just having the name "Christian" is sufficient say: "They are just different roads, all going to the same place." Hence, it is often proposed that these various roads be fused into a broad middle way, a uniting of all religions. These are wrong views...

However, true worship and right doctrine are of vital importance...

Some claim to see good in all religions; hence, they feel no real need to seek out the true religion. Such individuals should heed the warning given by the prophet Isaiah, who wrote: "Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20) False religion has produced what is bad for humanity. It has resulted in spiritual darkness and has left a bitter taste in the mouths of honesthearted people...
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Quote by GreomerThis is a very quick summary which shows that maybe you haven't read about this religion much and you have made a really hasty assumption or that you are confused. I will not say to you which the truth is. If you want, go and find it. I don't like preaching anyway... :D :D

I'm familiar with those religions... :) and those posts are true and history testifies it... :)

Quote: As for your question...
How religion should be measured....
The answer lies within you. There is no measure. When you feel right and full in yourself, then you have found your religion. You have found the heavy and true religion. When you don't, you have found the fake and light religion.

I know the answer, but I want to know other's view... :) As for my religion, yes I've found it, but how about the others?

God well knew that man would need something to guide him. He knew that there would be many deceptive paths leading in different directions that would thoroughly confuse people. They would have to have something that would unerringly point out the right path and would be a dependable light for their feet. He provided it by giving mankind the Bible. "Your word is a lamp to my foot, and a light to my roadway." (Psalm 119:105)

Proverbs 4:18, 19 says: "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling."

Quote: One tip. Don't try to understand religion because everything that has to do with it, is out of everyone's knowledge. Try to accept a little more... :)

The only way a person can stay on the right path is to follow the righteous principles and instructions of God's Word. He must walk carefully, permitting the Bible to expose false paths and to illuminate the right way. To ignore it is like stumbling through a swamp in total darkness. Is it any wonder, then, that so many people do not know where they are actually headed? Jesus truly said: "He that walks in the darkness does not know where he is going." (John 12:35)

No one can be sure he is on the right path by leaning upon his own understanding. What may seem right to him may actually be wrong, because it is contrary to the laws of the supreme Sovereign. That is why it is written: "There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward." (Proverbs 14:12) It is only by using the truths of the Scriptures that a person can be certain what path is right and what is wrong and deceptive...
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Quote by rorenzuthru influence...
but comparing one religion to another would only lead to arguement and won't even give you clear answers, it would just lead to your own conclusions....

The true religion can also be identified by the fruitage it bears. Jesus Christ explained that there is one outstanding feature by which it can be recognized, saying: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (John 13:35) Does your religion produce this fruitage of love? Does it inspire its people genuinely to love one another, regardless of the race or nationality to which they belong? (1 John 4:20)

Is it not obvious that, instead of bearing the fruitage of love, the major religions of the world have condoned and even encouraged their members to hate and war against persons of another race or nationality? During wartime millions of persons belonging to the same religion have slaughtered one another on the battlefields, with each side supported by their respective clergy who are also of the same religion! Religions that produce such unloving fruitage are not pursuing the way of love and of true religion. By the fruitage they bear you can identify them to be false. (1 John 3:10-12)

Quote: side comment*
but i don't think religion should be measured, after all, your religion won't save you...
because if it would, surely, i would convert myself to the religion that would save me...

Jehovah is the Savior of humans who love him. (Isaiah 43:11) Israel's renowned King David knew this from personal experience, and he wholeheartedly sang: "Salvation belongs to Jehovah." (Psalm 3:8)

Jehovah God has specific requirements for those seeking salvation. They must acquire accurate knowledge, exercise faith, repent of their sins, be converted, make a dedication to God, and undergo baptism as believers...

If a religion is not in accord with what the Bible teaches, then it is not in harmony with truth. It is not the true religion. (Romans 3:4) You have nothing to fear in examining your beliefs by the standard of God's Word, for if you have the true religion you can only be reassured. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth, because it leads to eternal life. (John 17:3)

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Quote: Yeah, you're right...they're not killing their own kind or believers because of religion, but did you understand my point? False religion supports war... Indeed, the clergy of Christendom have been the most prominent members of Satan's seed...

"Hitler . . . had a Catholic as Vice-Chancellor and from practically the first day of the regime Franz von Papen became the drummer to attract the Catholic factions to a support of the new Reich. In every part of the Reich von Papen was to be heard exhorting the faithful to blind obedience to Adolf Hitler."

"In early 1933 the following official announcement was made by the body corporate of Catholic action and thought in Germany, then led by [Franz] von Papen: 'We German Catholics will stand, with all our soul and our full convictions, behind Adolf Hitler and his Government. We wonder at his love for fatherland, his energy and his statesmanly wisdom. . . . German Catholicism . . . must take an active part in the building-up of the Third Reich.'"

Franz von Papen was instrumental in achieving a concordat between the Nazi government he served in Germany and the Vatican in Rome. The concordat was signed July 20, 1933. A special communique stated: "Cardinal and Secretary of State Pacelli [later Pope Pius XII] to-day bestowed on Vice-Chancellor von Papen, the Grand Cross of the Order of Pius . . . Vice-Chancellor von Papen presented to the Cardinal Secretary of State a Madonna of White Meissen Porcelain as a gift of the Reichs Government. . . . All gifts bore the dedication: 'A memento of the Reich Concordat 1933.'"--All quotes taken from Franz von Papen--His Life and Times, by H. W. Blood-Ryan.


Umm, thats politics, not really a lot to do with religion. Yes, there is the use of religion, but because it was to be used as a method of recruitment. It goes intoi politics.

Quote: How I became a biased if I'm only telling the truth?


You've selected information that is one sided, that meaning bias.

Quote: Confucianism fails to satisfy one's spiritual needs; nor has it brought lasting peace and happiness. Confucianism has been labeled as feudalistic, promoting a slave mentality to keep people, especially women, under subjection...

It had a favorable attitude toward ancestor worship and placed great emphasis on the observance of the rites and ceremonies relating to the spirits of departed ancestors...

Its role as a religion has been reduced to the status of a national monument. In China at Ch'u-fou, the birthplace of Confucius, the State maintains the Temple of Confucius and family grounds as tourist attractions. There, according to the magazine China Reconstructs, performances are put on "reenacting a ritual of worship for Confucius." And in Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and other places in eastern Asia, people still celebrate Confucius' birthday...

In Confucianism and Taoism, we see how a system based on human wisdom and reasoning, no matter how logical and well-meaning, ultimately falls short in the search for the true God. Why? Because it leaves out one essential element, namely, the will and requirements of a personal God. Confucianism turns to human nature as the motivating force to do good, and Taoism turns to nature itself. But this is misplaced confidence because it simply amounts to worshiping created things rather than the Creator...


Umm, where did the spiritual needs come from? For Confucianism, it has no god... Confucianism is to teach morality, concepts and knowledge. For spirtuality, it does not need to be god, there are those who use nature as their spirituality and what not.

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  • Feb 21, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by DarkIngramSome claim to see good in all religions; hence, they feel no real need to seek out the true religion. Such individuals should heed the warning given by the prophet Isaiah, who wrote: "Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20) False religion has produced what is bad for humanity. It has resulted in spiritual darkness and has left a bitter taste in the mouths of honesthearted people...

But isn't quoting a "prophet" from a specific religion biased against all other faiths? Should you, when comparing different faiths, quote one when evaluating others?

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Blueheart

Blueheart

Wapy's sister

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God doesn't see religion, He sees people. you can have a bad Religion but be a pure person or you can have a good religion and be a bad person.

God doesn't care about what we believe, He cares about us.

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Mnemeth

Mnemeth

Rider of the Currents

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Quote by DarkIngram Not 90+% ^_^'
In accordance with the prophetic vision, Babylon the Great is the great whore that has led nations, peoples, and tribes into bloody wars, crusades, and vendettas, blessing them with incantations, holy water, prayers, and fiery patriotic speeches. (Revelation 18:24)
The "holy" Crusades (1096-1270), the Thirty Years' War in Europe (1618-48), two world wars, and the slaughter of some 200,000 Hindus and Muslims on the partition of India (1947) are just a few examples of religion's bloodguilt...
False religion continues to contribute to the bloodbath "of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth."


Um get your history correct.
- Holy Crusades = a LAND GRAB (along with whatever other wealth could be plundered) from the Muslims under the guise of a religious war against the heretics to reclaim the "Holy Land". Yes the Catholic Church was partially responsible for inflaming the situation but it was not for religion it was to line their own pockets
- Thirty Years War = a POWER struggle between two of the dominant religions of that time as well as attempted land grabs by several of the countries involved. Make no mistake as again religion was merely a tool used in an attempt to gain power and wealth.
- In the two world wars religion was only involved peripherally such as the persecution of the Jews due to their financial prowness (or underhandedness depending on the point of view). It was as tool and not a cause.
- Final example in India is again a POWER struggle in which one side sough to eliminate the threat to their power over the people.

Aha False Religion is correct. By inflaming the impressionable and ignorant with lies and half truths people have been able to turn neighbors against neighbors, cities against cities, and nations against other nations. However as I will maintain, in 90+% of these cases the ultimate goal of those people who initiated the chains of events leading to the conflicts was not to perform the will of god but to gain wealth or power. I say 90+% because there were a few that actually believed they were doing god's work and well insanity is usually a good way to describe their conditions

Quote by DarkIngramSad to say but it's impossible for man to live together peacefully with different religion... but I know we'll both agree Mnemeth that God soon will destroy false religions & unite all people in one form of worship--in the coming New World... :)

Sadly I must disagree with you per my beliefs in that God has made the choice to allow humans to progress on their own path and make their own choices and has in fact said he will not destroy the world again as he did in the Great Flood.

I thank you for the blurb on Shintoism as I am always interested in learning about other religions but it again reinforces the fact that religion was again merely a tool used to control. It was not much different for the Egyptians and the pharoahs.

Quote by DarkIngramYeah, but among all the teachings & books they're using, only the Bible holds the truth & accurateness...

Unfortunately and please correct me if I am in error as to this assumption. This statement places you in to the category of one who believes that the Bible is the end all be all of the Christian religion. IF, if that is the case then I do pity your position as it shows an arrogance not becoming of a Christian as well as a lack of understanding of what I believe to be Gods true will since the Bible is merely a book containing an incomplete history of the Christian (and indeed a version of early Islamic and Judaic history) religion as well as the original tenents of the Christian faith. Unfortunately this was written in a era very different from today and the church has done a poor job of keeping it up to date as we learn more and strive to become closer to God. The true religion is our personal relationship with God and not the Bible.

Do not interfere in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

  • Feb 23, 2007
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Quote by DarkIngramFalse religion has produced what is bad for humanity. It has resulted in spiritual darkness and has left a bitter taste in the mouths of honesthearted people...

Why are these religions false religions exactly?

  • Feb 23, 2007
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Quote by DarkIngram
Hinduism
Hindu philosophy is very complex and does not conform to normal logic: Hinduism teaches that the god Brahman includes three forms--Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Siva the Destroyer.


The concept of Trimukti is not really that complex. It is merely a form of depiction of Brahman in his roles as a Creator (Brahma), Preserver (Vishnu) and Destroyer (Shiva). A similar analogy would be a man as a husband, employee, friend and whatever other roles that he is taking on. And this is not only limited to the Trimukti as Hinduism has a pantheon of deities each with their own duties. In the end, they are all Brahma in various roles.

Quote by DarkIngram
Buddhism
Buddhist teachings are vague and the interpretation varies from one person to another.


Buddhism espouses living life in moderation and respect for other life. There is little vagueness and variation in Buddhism among the Mahayana and Theravada schools of Buddhism.

Quote by DarkIngram
Japanese Buddhism is quite different from the Buddhism of Southeast Asia.


And so is Christianity in the Middle East, West, Africa and Latin America. Variations occur when local religion and cultures are assimilated into a religion.

Quote by DarkIngram
Individuals, too, differ as to their viewpoint: Buddhism does not recognize an external God, a personal Creator. But many Buddhists worship images and relics of Buddha. Siddhartha Gautama, who was given the title Buddha, came to be viewed as the religious ideal of his followers, to be imitated by them.


Buddhists do not worship images and relics of Buddha nor do they see Siddhartha Gautama Buddha as a religious ideal. He is venerated (i.e. respected) as a great teacher just like people respect Confucius. And to see Gautama Buddha as a religious ideal is not in accordance with Buddhist teachings. To be seen as a moral ideal is more accurate.

Quote by DarkIngram
He encouraged gaining enlightenment by studying mankind from a human standpoint, also severing the roots of suffering by controlling the mind so as to eliminate all earthly desire. He taught that in this way one might attain to Nirvana, free from the rebirths of transmigration. Buddhists worship their ancestors, because they view these as the source of their life


Worshipping of ancestors is entirely a combination of Taoism and Confucianism elements and not Buddhisms. Buddhists in India do not practice ancestor worshipping (since the dead are cremated and their ashes scattered away in the Ganges River). And you fail to mention that Buddhism teaches that suffering is eliminated by keeping desires to moderate levels while doing away with the immoral ones (i.e. lust, greed, jealousy, etc).

Quote by DarkIngram
Its role as a religion has been reduced to the status of a national monument. In China at Ch'u-fou, the birthplace of Confucius, the State maintains the Temple of Confucius and family grounds as tourist attractions. There, according to the magazine China Reconstructs, performances are put on "reenacting a ritual of worship for Confucius." And in Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and other places in eastern Asia, people still celebrate Confucius' birthday...


Confucianism was never seen as a religion. It is a system of behavior governing the relationship of people with other people as well as relationship between the people and the State as well as being a code of moral conduct and ethical values designed as a remedy to the social ills and widespread government

  • Feb 23, 2007

rorenzu

rorenzu

Mio Amakura

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wouldn't "faith" be much suited than the word "religion" to save you?

Together...forever...
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  • Feb 23, 2007
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everyone got their own religion, and everyone is free to choose, to contunue and die.
I dont believe in a superior energy called God, i only i believe in my self. im my god and i'll live what i am until i die :3

  • Mar 27, 2007

Carmen

Carmen

Alaba a Dios

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To messure religion...
I think that the religion can only be messured in our hearts... because religion is in the heart of human beings.
I think that the religion is not important, the important thing is to have a true relationship with God.
We need to not lie to ourselves and to not try to lie to God (He knows everything, He can not be fouled). I think that in that reletionship with God is te meassure of the religion, and that meassure must be between everyone and God...

  • Apr 10, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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The inactivity of the OP has spoken volumes.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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I was hoping that this thread would hold an interesting debate when I found it, and to be honest there are some interesting insights into the various religions discussed. However, the arrogance displayed by the OP in their responses to others is exactly the sort of thing that annoyed me about religion in the first place. I was raised as a Christian but chose to become an atheist around the age of 10 or 11, although I do still have an interest in religion on an intellectual level. The blind acceptance of the OP is exactly the sort of attitude that made this change remarkably easy.

It's sad that such an interesting topic was turned into a "preaching thread" by the OP, but I must thank most of the contributors for some interesting and well-thought out posts. One thing I would like to point out is the need to specify exactly what is being measured; are we trying to measure the beliefs of the different religions or are we trying to measure the religions based on their history? I think that the former would be a very difficult thing to make any conclusions about, while measuring the latter would require an in-depth understanding of history where it would be naive in the extreme to try and separate religion, politics, and power.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

  • Apr 23, 2007

Archer79

Nerdly Ghost

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Success could be measured by counting how many people have been transfigured to the "ideal state" (i.e. heaven, enlightenment, etc.). ...But then, it will be hard to get any religion to agree on what that ideal state is.

...But I'm pretty sure there's only one. :D (Personally, I believe that "state" is going to Heaven when you die. XD)

And I will openly state that I find your decision to break out Christianity into "Christendom" and "Christianism" as offensive. ...First of all, your "Christendom" appears to siginificantly reference the Catholic denomination, while being utterly incorrect and misleading to what is actually believed. Christians are Christians. ....They claim/seek salvation in the name of Jesus Christ, and all of God through Him. Your attempt to segregate a part of the church to mock it is deplorable.

  • Apr 23, 2007
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Quote by Archer79Success could be measured by counting how many people have been transfigured to the "ideal state" (i.e. heaven, enlightenment, etc.). ...But then, it will be hard to get any religion to agree on what that ideal state is.

Good point, I didn't consider that option. Even if you could get them to agree on an ideal state, you'd still have a fair bit of trouble counting the number of people that have reached that state. Is there some sort of Census office in Heaven and what's the number? ;)

  • Apr 23, 2007

Archer79

Nerdly Ghost

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Quote by ArnyGood point, I didn't consider that option. Even if you could get them to agree on an ideal state, you'd still have a fair bit of trouble counting the number of people that have reached that state. Is there some sort of Census office in Heaven and what's the number? ;)

Wouldn't it be nice if there was? Feedback and all? ...In some ways there is. The Catholic Church looks at Miracles and Saints and Apparitions. determining which ones actually originate from God... ...The Church has effected some changes in direction due to miracles that have happened in the past 2000 years. ...Doing so while remaining true to the Bible. Truly, no Christians were abandoned by the death of Christ... And I'm pretty sure most Christians will agree, God is quite alive and active, even today, 2000 years since Jesus came.

...Man, I hope the population is a REALLY big one though. ;-)

  • Apr 23, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by ArnyI was hoping that this thread would hold an interesting debate when I found it, and to be honest there are some interesting insights into the various religions discussed. However, the arrogance displayed by the OP in their responses to others is exactly the sort of thing that annoyed me about religion in the first place. I was raised as a Christian but chose to become an atheist around the age of 10 or 11, although I do still have an interest in religion on an intellectual level. The blind acceptance of the OP is exactly the sort of attitude that made this change remarkably easy.

It's sad that such an interesting topic was turned into a "preaching thread" by the OP, but I must thank most of the contributors for some interesting and well-thought out posts. One thing I would like to point out is the need to specify exactly what is being measured; are we trying to measure the beliefs of the different religions or are we trying to measure the religions based on their history? I think that the former would be a very difficult thing to make any conclusions about, while measuring the latter would require an in-depth understanding of history where it would be naive in the extreme to try and separate religion, politics, and power.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Ditto. Funny how the OP judges religions by reading the holy book of ANOTHER religion :\. He certainly isn't an unbiased source of information.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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