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LYING: morally right or wrong

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azyl12

azyl12

Raijin Thunderkeg

There was a situation given to us 4th years (St. Matthew; my section) about Christian Morality. It was about conscience. This situation was debated in our class, which turned out as mere war of noise. I was on the "No" part.
This is the situation...
Mr. Jacob killed a student (let's name him Lenard). Some people already knew about this. Because of fear, he (Mr. Jacob) hid himself in the faculty room (or whatever place) with your help. Meaning, you know where he is hiding. The student's father received an information about this and went to the school with a gun. Being a student who knows Lenard, and Mr. Jacob, the father asked you where MR. jacob is.
The question was-...
Are you going to lie for the sake of Mr. jacob or are you gonna tell the father where mr. jacob is and let mr. jacob die knowing that the father will kill him?

The real question for this thread is
Is lying morally right?
you can answer the questions for the situation if you want. Share your opinion. ^^

I actually think it is right if the purpose, or will is right. Lying itself is wrong but-..if the action or the reason for doing it is right then perhaps it is correct.
In this situation, maybe you should lie first then convince the father to just let the law handle this. It is much appropriate to do so than to kill someone.

Break a heart...replace it for a new one but not the same one...

Takeru623

Takeru623

Haruhiist

There isn't an easy way to answer this question. Everybody lies at some point. Some lie to protect themselves, some to protect others, some out of greed, and some out of spite. Finding a person that has never lied is next to impossible.

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

honestly saying, if i were in that situation, i would not know what to do. lying would be a sin. not lying will most likely kill someone.
but if i lie, no matter what my intentions are, i still commit a sin. so, lying, whether it's morally right or not, is still a sin.
so maybe, i won't find myself answering to his question (incomplete truth) assuming that i was calm enough in that situation.

he could sue you for falsifying information ^_^'

Northy

Northy

Guys are human as well.

I guess there's always the option of saying: "Yes, I know where he is, but I won't tell you. I will not be a part of someone's murderous vengeance." It's not the best example, is it. Would lying to protect someone from becoming a murderer really be that sinful?

I can't state anything out from the point of Christian morality, but my own view of this subject is that not all lies are wrong. I think the coined term is "white lies", where you are basically telling a small lie, misleading someone a little or just witholding information for someone else's protection from... say, something that was out of their control anyway.

Eisritter

Eisritter

Cool As Ice

Mostly we lie to escape the unacceptable(even painful) truth at times we do this to protect someone or relieve the person from negative thoughts(fear, worry, etc.) so for me lying depends on the person's reasons

I'd tell him where Mr. Jacob was. He killed a student and therefore deserves death. The father may be imprisoned for murder but I don't care he killed a guy as well. Besides nothing is worth ticking a guy with a gun off not even someone elses life.

Seems like, in such a situation, you're going to have to decide which is the lesser of 2 evils: lying or causing someone to die. I think most people would say that lying is the lesser evil. I believe something like lying is considered a venial, or less-serious sin, while murder is a cardinal sin, according to Christian tenets.

I am curious as to Christianity's teachings on subjects such as white lies and other social foibles like this. "If a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, does he commit a sin?" and the like.

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

Quote by ikijibiki
I am curious as to Christianity's teachings on subjects such as white lies and other social foibles like this. "If a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, does he commit a sin?" and the like.

you see, in the 10 commandments, God prohibits murder and stealing.
so. if its my opinion, i'd say lying is just as serious as murder.
the man who stole a loaf of bread should turn to God and ask for his help first. if he steals, that means he is turning away from God and at the same time breaking the 10 commandments.

shoujoboy

shoujoboy

Launching shoujoboy 2.0

Are you serious? Lying is as serious as murder? Sliting the throats of a family while they lie in bed at night is just as bad as me telling a girl she doesn't look fat in that outfit? I'm glad we don't use religion for law, otherwise we'd have a bunch of little white liars serving multiple life sentences in the same cell as a guy who chopped up a person and dumped them into the river.

Under construction. Who doesn't like plain text anyway?

cygnostratus

cygnostratus

Raijin Gaeshi

for me... it depends on how will you use it. if you're gonna lie just for your own benefit, then lying's a bullsh*t. but if it's gonna be for the good of other's then why not.

... however, this one's hard...

if I were in the situation, I'll still say it... BUT NOT JUST TO ANYBODY. I'll let the police know first hand. but of course, there's the factor that I'm gonna die in the process. but there's the police protection. there's the police before he can touch me.

but if he somehow manages to kill me, then what am I for the world to lose something?

... but the risk is paranoia... having the thought that he's just right at my tail. now that's scary...

... but try to think you did something for the good of the majority and sacrifice you're life (assuming that he'd kill you anytime) rather than let yourself live and having the risk of letting other people have a chance of dying in his hands...

FinalFantasyFans|Ecchi-Club
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You were the lightning in that rain, you can still shine through the darkness

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

Quote by shoujoboyAre you serious? Lying is as serious as murder? Sliting the throats of a family while they lie in bed at night is just as bad as me telling a girl she doesn't look fat in that outfit? I'm glad we don't use religion for law, otherwise we'd have a bunch of little white liars serving multiple life sentences in the same cell as a guy who chopped up a person and dumped them into the river.

why not? lying do get people killed. small lies are always prelude to bigger lies.
in this case for example, if you say you don't know where that teacher is, that father might just go on rampage, shooting every male teacher in his sight. now, in this case, because you lied, more people got killed.

shoujoboy

shoujoboy

Launching shoujoboy 2.0

I didn't even respond to the initial question, I only chose to call out your absurd comment. I'll say that there are SOME lies that might equate to murder, ones of war or politics and the likes may qualify. But to say that ALL lies are the equivalent of murder is retarded.

Ever been asked if you'd like a piece of candy and you said no when really you would have liked a piece?
Ever told someone their cooking was good when really it was either ok or bad?
Ever told someone you'd be there in 10 minutes... and then took 30?

Those are lies. Are those lies murder? If you honestly think that's the case, please never have children. Let me appeal to your sense of right and beg you to not procreate. I would absolutely hate for that kind of drivel to be passed on to another generation. If you already have children... I guess I'll see them in these forums in the future.

Under construction. Who doesn't like plain text anyway?

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

you like my comments do you ^_^'

now it's clearly that you either seriously misunderstood my comment, or you intentionally twisted my meaning. because i thought i choose my words carefully enough so as not to cause misunderstandings.
but anyway, did my reply whatsoever sound as if you responded to the initial question (and i disagree or something)? i simply gave an example using the initial question.

about those 3 question, I'm sad to say im always honest about them.
and i said. small lies are prelude to bigger lies. note that i did not say ALL lies are the equivalent of murder. but i said lying is just as serious as murder. so in case you don't understand a word i say, i offer some examples to you by using "as (something) as"

money is as important as health. does it mean money = health? no. it means money is important. health is also important

boy A is as useless as boy B. boy A is not boy B. but they are both useless.

guy A's crime got as much punishment as guy B's. This does not necessary mean guy A and guy B did the same thing. it just means they both deserved the same amount of punishment.

i would be happy to give more examples if you still don't understand.

I'd lie first to avoid another murder. Then, I'd turn him in to the police. And the father, also.

This is not moral relativism. If you're going to save another life, it's not inmoral. One dead is enough. But hiding him from justice, that would be pretty bad.

shoujoboy

shoujoboy

Launching shoujoboy 2.0

Then why didn't you say lying CAN be just as serious as murder? The word CAN would have meant that some can be, with which I could agree with you. But you said lying IS just as serious as murder.

Under construction. Who doesn't like plain text anyway?

it depends on what moral principle that you are applying, and depending on the situation as well.

say for example if a stalker asks you of your address and mobile number, of course you would lie about it, won't you.

DNangel-DarkWings

shoujoboy

shoujoboy

Launching shoujoboy 2.0

If a stalker asks you for information, they fail as a stalker.

Stalker: noun - someone who prowls or sneaks about; usually with unlawful intentions

Under construction. Who doesn't like plain text anyway?

Northy

Northy

Guys are human as well.

And so, another thread derails completely because people AREN'T READING THE FUCKING OPENING POST PROPERLY!

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

well, you see, these happens all too regularly in this sub-section

priincess

priincess

?doing fun

Quote: In this situation, maybe you should lie first then convince the father to just let the law handle this. It is much appropriate to do so than to kill someone.

hey, you answered that already.. not the lie part. if the father kills him then it's the same that he's a murderer too. it means, another revenge

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Nubes

Nubes

Blah blah blah!!!

Well, lie is a lie, doens't matter if it is white, gray, green or black... it's a lie...

But I don't know, there are lies that would kill pple, but there are lies that keep pple at line, for protecting or avoid hard feelings or I don't know.

u lie for a reason, but if that reason benefits only you, and harms others I think that' morally wrong... otherwise, if it is for protection (I dont say protect a murderer or whatever) for good, i can accept it.

priincess

priincess

?doing fun

Quote: u lie for a reason, but if that reason benefits only you, and harms others I think that' morally wrong

right:)

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EurekaHakuro

teke teke :3

For the most part lying is wrong. But in "drastic and important" situations like this one, then I believe that it is not wrong. It's a life or death situation.
So, I would not tell the father where Mr. Jacob is :P

EPIC WIN.

onyhow

Survivor...

Lie, yeah...

Not going for another bloodshed...since I can just report everthing...

But really, there's not much on the motivation of the initial murder...

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