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awkwardusername

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I was assigned to do a film for an upcoming general freshmen orientation in our college. Excited about the idea, I accepted the job thinking, 'this won't be too hard, isn't it?'. But I was wrong. I have 2 months to finish that job, but I have only done 60% of the video [at the moment]. Add to that, a nice thing happened earlier this morning [04:23]. My video editor [Vegas Pro 11.0] crashed without reason, which caused my 60% completion of the project decrease to 30% [a buffer overflow, corrupted my project file, tried to recover, them voila]. I did not do anything wrong haven't I?

I am to prove myself wrong.

I am a person to consistently admit that I am wrong. I am very conscious to what I did wrong. To prove that, I am to point out what mistakes I did from before.

I should have done the project earlier, thus, completing it at an earlier time. About the corrupted file? I should have made a backup. Then finally, I should have saved more often.

I am the kind of person who knows what I did was wrong, but there is the insisting behavior of mine to be stubborn. That is, even I am conscious of my mistakes, I do not change. Stubborn as I may be, but it is, and I can't help but be stubborn all the time. Knowing what mistakes are, I often point out the mistakes of others and tell them to straighten up their lives. A dilemma? True.

Darthas said, people don't change. Is that really true? I cannot be so sure. If I were to define what change really is, it is too vague to implore.

Change might not be too deep of a subject but the points that can be drawn on this subject will generate many lines. To make myself clear, there are many kinds of changes. Changes in personality, changes in looks, changes in emotions, et cetera, but not everything of them is change to me. A classical example may be if you changed your hairstyle. You still have the same personality nevertheless. Another example is from a different perspective. In this case, you may not haven't changed your looks, but you changed your personality. Only those people close to you would know your personality changed though, ergo, it is not change to other people.

Well, to devoid those muddy waters, i should describe two kinds of changes [existentially]. That is, the intrinsic change and the extrinsic change. You can put the external changes [seen, obvious] in the extrinsic and otherwise.

What I said above is from my own philosophical views so, feel free to raise your brow on that paragraph. Hitherto, I just could not accept the fact that people change, but it isn't that I do not imply my unbelief in the matter. I stand by my agnostic view on the argument.

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I ought to make this post longer, but I haven't got enough time. I've got to report to my superior that I haven't done the film in time. And thank you darth for making me post this thread. really.

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Then what role am I to play in this farce? Should I be the slave? The villager? The knight? The protagonist? No, I am them all! A hero who’s role is to consume everything in sight, dancing while tearing the theater apart. A drama. A drama whose audience is the drama itself.

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---[12:58] <Darthas> make a thread [12:58] <Darthas> I'll reply [12:59] <Darthas> maybe forum heroes wanna talk about it too, btw don't mention my name---
SPECTACLES

People do not change, it's a written fact, a proven fact and will always be a fact.
These will not be scientific explanations by the way, but more situational ones so everyone can see what I mean. I could use scientific terms but it's not exactly very reader friendly because nobody is going to google the 3rd edition and find out what I mean when I say 'proven by idiographic studies on psychology' and spend 800 hours reading up and perfecting years of research included in the book. (lol)

Personality is argued to be defined by many things still such as optimism and pessimism, universal principles, genetics, state of mind, heredity, reactivity and situations as determinants. There are too many branches and too many theories that have been made, rebutted and even accepted to prove others wrong. There is no consensus on what personality really is and what defines it, because everyone has acknowledged that it is a blanket term for behavior but at the same time it is not, it can define your motives, reasons you do things and how much you sacrifice to get what you want. All in all, the person you are is always the same despite what mask you wear.

The reason people do not change internally is due to the fundamentals of personality that developed in them when they were young, during the nurturing age of their lives. It's called nurturing for a reason, it builds up the basis of your personality. You cannot change what you were brought up to be if your genes agree with it or anything psychological for that matter, it mostly boils down to what you mean by change. (which you have given)

To change what is outward is simple a task, you can change personality outwardly because it's a temporary change so to speak. If your DNA and genes say you are a mean and terrible person, you can be nice for a good 6 hours, but not be a nice person in your entire life. That's the unfortunate truth. By saying this, I give you the theory that ingrained personality traits can not be reverse, modified or changed. You can suppress these feelings and emotions, but after good time you will go back to being who you had no choice to be. People have told me 'I met a guy who did change, you're so full of @#$', but do you know that people compensate for things they do not have? Life is cruel in a sense that all things have balance, without balance you are unstable, and instability is not a light term in psychology.

Compensation, by playing games and interacting with yourself when you are alone or just plain daydreaming, you will revert to what you truly are as compensation to the fact you are unable to act out what you truly want to.
For example: You are alone when at school and aren't the popular kind of kid, nobody in school really talks to you for several reasons, be it attitude or the way you are. You have some friends who talk to you but do not really do things you think friends do together. If you find 'better' friends on the internet, you will tend to forgo your RL friends and stay with your net friends who can support your thoughts and your interests with them having no idea you look or seem this way.
This can easily be turned into a 'looks are everything' argument, but that's not what we want and not what I mean. You compensate for your lack of friends in RL with those in the internet to be able to ground yourself and be 'normal'. There are better examples, but one needs sufficient knowledge on behavior to be able to understand this example. You would not need to find a safe spot for any other reason other than being unable to change yourself to fit in any safe spot you see.

Finding your safe spot is not only an example on why people can't change, as mentioned early about nurturing.
We are all 'fixed up' after we leave those years of our life, and for every minute, every hour that passes, we perfect these emotions, habits and behaviors that have been embedded in us with almost every activity we do. If you have been pampered your entire life, tomorrow is surely not a day you're going to make 3 trips around town because your favorite pizza parlor closed down, or the day after for that matter, or even a week after. You'll compensate for your pampered personality as well as your past lifestyle by having something simple like toasted bread and potatoes.

You can call it inconvenience, but what made it an inconvenience to you? Nothing but the way you are. Stubbornness operates the same way, but I do not believe it's genetic and has more to do with the way things have been with you. It can be affected by being spoiled as a child, getting your way almost every time or the mindset that if you do not give in to anything, you will turn out the winner. The change you said about yourself is more a regret until you learn issue.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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A person is the same person, so a person would not change in that sense. Yet people change in other ways to fit with their acquired beliefs and traits or to keep up with the changing surroundings.

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  • Jun 14, 2012
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Even I have the same problem awkward! >.<
And I'm gonna quote darthas's post in the quotes thread.

Even I felt that I'd changed a lot in the past few years.. but very recently, I found that I hadn't! I'd just compensated?! :o
I guess people can never change.. we just adjust ourselves to be more socially acceptable. But if we closely note the person's habits and activities, we might find that the person still hasn't changed though it might appear that way.

duhqueenmoki

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I think my own belief is an oxymoron but I think others might agree with it:

At our core, we never truly change. We are born with a certain temperament as babies, and will always respond to things a certain way.
However, we are creatures that must adapt. We have a will. Thus, if we will ourselves, I believe we're constantly "changing" depending on obstacles we face and what people expect from us.

to summarize: we never change at our core, yet many aspects of us are constantly changing.

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I beg to differ, there is one situation in which people can change. I aggree that will alone wont change people's core. But I saw people completly changed by love. Not the fake changing into someone more likely to meet the other's tastes... dunno how to explain it. Real love seldom happens, but it's out of someone's hands when it does. Sometimes against their will (I even saw a chick "running away" from it all, by fear of changing). And it's a lasting change. Even after they moved on, their core was changed.

  • Jun 15, 2012

Darthas

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Quote by Omegalite I beg to differ, there is one situation in which people can change. I aggree that will alone wont change people's core. But I saw people completly changed by love. Not the fake changing into someone more likely to meet the other's tastes... dunno how to explain it. Real love seldom happens, but it's out of someone's hands when it does. Sometimes against their will (I even saw a chick "running away" from it all, by fear of changing). And it's a lasting change. Even after they moved on, their core was changed.

Unfortunately, Love is a state of mind. Like every other temperament and state of mind, everything is temporary around the person or situation you're involved it. Love may seem to change people, just like every other temperament, state of mind and situation, but you always have time to yourself. If given half an opportunity you will go back to your roots and what pleases you most. Everything is therefore an illusion of 'true' change, as such everything.. including love is not a factor for change. It's a lasting mask on your face, an impression used to sustain what you want. You remain the same internally, your outward appearance does not.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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UsagixKitsune

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Your mistake was using Windows. Get a real OS like Arch or Gentoo. freeBSD is also acceptable.

I don't know if people can change, I hope they can. I think it's easy to fall back into a way you were for a long period of time but I wouldn't call this evidence that one cannot change.

Personally I've gone from overly timid and cautious (when I was young) to very brazen and reckless (mid to late teens). Now I'm trying to be more polite and meticulous, we'll see if it works.

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Quote by darthasUnfortunately, Love is a state of mind.

I used to think that, I've been proven otherwise. But I must admit it's very rare.

Quote by UsagixKitsunePersonally I've gone from overly timid and cautious (when I was young) to very brazen and reckless (mid to late teens). Now I'm trying to be more polite and meticulous, we'll see if it works.

Hey that's me ! lolz
That's the over-sensitive syndrome : too sensitive a child who decides to shelter himself behind some kind of rejection of everything that can hurt him... until he realizes that's the worst approach he could take.
Good luck to you, been 10 years I'm working on it, and I'm far from being done. I went too far on the other side.

PS : Oh yeah I forgot about that : you change naturally while a kid, but changing as a grown-up is a whole different matter.

  • Jun 15, 2012

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Like I said, masks are easy to wear, and you have no idea what goes on behind closed doors unless you're literally in the person's head. Personality takes time to develop and root in, internal traits are forever under lock and key but are still always there. What you see it external change, something that is temporary.

You change a lot when you are young because of multiple factors such as role modeling, environment and other source factors. When an individual is young he is still learning the ways of the world, forming his personality constructs and models to view the world by. You modify this over time, so you are changing externally the longer you are alive, by the time you're 40, if you really like loli you probably will later on, even after you're 70.

Again, Usagi isn't talking about any kind of emotional or mental disease affecting him, he gave an example that everyone changes while growing up from a young age to teen age, that was the point. He changed, but like I said, the change that cannot be reversed are things like sensitivity. If you're born to be sensitive, to have a lot of empathy, no amount of experience is going to tell you otherwise, and you'll hurt yourself regardless of what you expect the outcome to be, even if you think you're not.
Btw, the things he said have no relation to any syndrome.. naturally every smart kid will play safe when he's younger and get more daring as they grow up.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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You're right, the "syndrome" part was a joke. But not the rest. If you say things like sensitivity cannot be reversed, then count me as an exception. I went from over-sensitive to the worst non-caring state one can acheive : I ended up not caring about my own life, cause nothing in life was interesting anymore (if you dont care about anything, nothing is interesting, life included). The change was based on the theory that "something can hurt me only if I care about that something, thus I shall not". Although it took me 8 years for the change to sink into my "core" to the point I would think about suicide (again, not because I was sad or desperate, but because I just didnt care living).

Never say never. Humanity cant be fit into a single mold, there are always exceptions. That's what's good about humanity, or else we wouldnt be, humans.

  • Jun 15, 2012

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Quote by OmegaliteYou're right, the "syndrome" part was a joke. But not the rest. If you say things like sensitivity cannot be reversed, then count me as an exception. I went from over-sensitive to the worst non-caring state one can acheive : I ended up not caring about my own life, cause nothing in life was interesting anymore (if you dont care about anything, nothing is interesting, life included). The change was based on the theory that "something can hurt me only if I care about that something, thus I shall not". Although it took me 8 years for the change to sink into my "core" to the point I would think about suicide (again, not because I was sad or desperate, but because I just didnt care living).


Quote by darthasYou change a lot when you are young because of multiple factors such as role modeling, environment and other source factors. When an individual is young he is still learning the ways of the world, forming his personality constructs and models to view the world by. You modify this over time, so you are changing externally the longer you are alive

Quote by OmegaliteNever say never. Humanity cant be fit into a single mold, there are always exceptions. That's what's good about humanity, or else we wouldnt be, humans.

Quote by darthasYou cannot change what you were brought up to be if your genes agree with it

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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OK, so I changed cause it was in my genes, thus I didnt change. I had both over-sensitive and uncaring genes at the same time.

Quote by OmegaliteOh wow, this is starting to get funny. We should make a special thread just for our clashes of opinions :)

Quote by darthasor just a welcoming ceremony for someone who bothers to rebut every statement I make. lol

Quote by OmegaliteGoes both ways lol. But hey, glad you're taking it the funny way too (too often have I seen such situation go ugly)

  • Jun 15, 2012

Darthas

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You don't change because it's in your genes, genes form the basis of who you are. Your experiences at an early age can define some measure of your personality, but as time goes by you'll ultimately go back to how you were originally meant to be. When you talk about genes you talk about ingrained personality traits, you're confusing that with feelings and other external traits.
Yea I read that quote lol

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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KK, I'm gonna walk my doggie now. lolz
(yeah I'm running away xD)

PS : Just for the record, I used to think exactly like you do, on both topics, on every aspect.

  • Jun 15, 2012

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Quote by Omegalite
PS : Just for the record, I used to think exactly like you do, on both topics, on every aspect.


Pretty big assumption right there.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Do people change? Interesting question.
I'm not going to respond specifically to what was written above, btw.

I think that certain parts of people can change, but those are usually the more superficial parts: their look, their style/taste, even their personality. It's all meaningless when faced with the fact that someone is who they are because of what made them who they are: their experience in the world. And someone's experiences and memories don't just change. They accumulate. People may want to change who they are. They might regret things they've done in the past. And so they change their appearance, their way of talking, their group of friends. But as long as time travel remains impossible, the one thing they can't change is their past. Like it or not, some bit of their past stuck with them, and it's the part where memories add on to each other. They learn, they grow layers of personalities like layers of face paint. But do they ever change? No. Because if you remove one layer of paint, the others are still there underneath it, and they can't truly be washed away.
...
I didn't mean to go all metaphorical there; the point of this has nothing to do with washing your face. What I'm saying is that what makes a person who they are can't really be taken away from them, at least not by natural causes. They're still the person who lived their past, and even if they regret it, it's who they are. Their experiences affect them in a way, they don't really change them.
Now, we all read stories about selfish people who are changed by true love. Unfortunately, fantasy and reality are two different things, and our world doesn't work like that. Nobody really does anything that doesn't involve some sort of personal gain, even if that personal gain is selfless. (Make sense? I doubt it. Oxymorons ftw.) Their actions may change and they may think that their motivations have changed, but their past defines their idea of personal gain and they live restricted to that whether they like it or not.

Sorry if this seems somewhat choppy, I'm getting tired. If you question me enough, I'll elaborate. But for now I think my thumbs have had enough.

awkwardusername

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Ok, I am convinced that people do not change.

Quote by LadyTextaholicBut do they ever change? No. Because if you remove one layer of paint, the others are still there underneath it, and they can't truly be washed away.


I could agree on these.

It could be true that people really don't change [if we talk about it intrinsically] because of a number of factors (as what Darthas had implied), but IMO, that there could be no real proof to as one really changed or not. Agreeing with darth, you can never understand a person, unless you are to crack open his skull and eat his brain.

We are separate existences, ergo, all we really care [know] about is ourselves.

Bringing back to my argument of change, oneself is the only one who could determine his state where he is in, changed [if ever] or not, in any cases.

Quote by OmegaliteI beg to differ, there is one situation in which people can change. I aggree that will alone wont change people's core. But I saw people completly changed by love. Not the fake changing into someone more likely to meet the other's tastes... dunno how to explain it. Real love seldom happens, but it's out of someone's hands when it does. Sometimes against their will (I even saw a chick "running away" from it all, by fear of changing). And it's a lasting change. Even after they moved on, their core was changed.

Real love? Too vague. Love itself is a vague matter [in which, another thread is appropriate], but I cannot agree as to that thing called 'love' can change oneself. It might be true in movies, anime or what, but in RL? I think not.

Quote by DarthasYou can call it inconvenience, but what made it an inconvenience to you? Nothing but the way you are. Stubbornness operates the same way, but I do not believe it's genetic and has more to do with the way things have been with you. It can be affected by being spoiled as a child, getting your way almost every time or the mindset that if you do not give in to anything, you will turn out the winner. The change you said about yourself is more a regret until you learn issue.

+1. This adheres with my philosophy.

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Quote by Darthas---[12:58] <Darthas> make a thread [12:58] <Darthas> I'll reply [12:59] <Darthas> maybe forum heroes wanna talk about it too, btw don't mention my name---
SPECTACLES


srsly. :P

By the way, thank you guys for giving light upon this thread of mine. It seems that we ought to have more topics like this in MT. Haha.

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Then what role am I to play in this farce? Should I be the slave? The villager? The knight? The protagonist? No, I am them all! A hero who’s role is to consume everything in sight, dancing while tearing the theater apart. A drama. A drama whose audience is the drama itself.

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Quote by awkwardusernamebut IMO, that there could be no real proof to as one really changed or not. Agreeing with darth, you can never understand a person, unless you are to crack open his skull and eat his brain.

Omnomnomnomnom.
Anyways, yes, I do agree with this. You cannot prove or disprove what goes on in someone's mind because there is no scientific way to record their thoughts. So all of these posts are simply based on our past experiences with others and ourselves. Maybe, somewhere, someone HAS changed and we don't know it. But if we did know that person, we could never be able to prove that what was in their (non-literal) heart had changed.
However.
My argument is more along the lines of "if our past makes us who we are and we can't change our past, we can't change who we are."
Back to the face paint metaphor:
This person above who we're talking about underwent a change. But he didn't just wake up one morning as a different person. Some experience "changed" him, added another layer of metaphorical face paint to his face. I think we can agree that the layers underneath didn't change, yes? At least in my experience, you can't just change your memories or the emotions that go along with them. Although I haven't yet eaten anyone else's brain to find out if the same is true for others. So, this person, he walks around with a new face. And maybe he really believes in this face, acts it all out to play the part. But no layer of face paint could change the layers underneath it, just like no new experience could change the past ones. He is still the person who did the things that he'd done in the past. His past self is still a part of him. I call each layer of face paint "superficial" because it represents only one out of a million experiences.
I suppose this bit was half fact and half guessing.
Also, sorry to Darth if this face paint thing seems like your mask idea. I only just read that bit. :P
As for the whole true love thing, I think it just adds layers to the paint. I'll believe that it changes people when I see it. I still think that people have entirely selfish motivations, even in quite a few of the books I've read.

angelxxuan

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first and foremost, the teal color on the background I use to play on mt is far more pleasurable to the eyes and easier to read than the red ;) moving on, yes people can change, but they must wish to force a change before the change can actually take place. a person who is lazy, set in their ways, stubborn and so forth will not change unless/until they want to change, after the idea begins then the change can begin. but it's not hard to fall back into your old habits, you just have to keep a conscious outlook and keep on that change. the change can be for good or bad, it really depends on the person. a stranger will never see the change, so to change for them would be pointless, there's nothing wrong with changing for yourself, to be a better person, to follow a better path. if you choose the bad path to follow this is equally your own choice to make, as in this life everything is a choice, you can choose to be as you are, you can choose to be this or that, but what it comes down to is, you. only you can do these things and no one else.

as for change of style, after awhile, if strangers see you enough they can see the change, yes they are still strangers (in my opinion) if you do not interact with them, know their name and the likes but you do see them in stores, as neighbors and so forth. I know but a fraction of my neighbors, because I tend to enjoy my own privacy and avoiding people because of their actions, their stupidity, anger, and so forth. I prefer my own company of the company of my close friends and family, outside of that I can't really help what you become, all that I can do is hope you keep away from me while doing it ;)

I am surrounded by all types of people, and I prefer to surround myself with those that bring about positive aspects of my life, not negative, therefor a change upon itself ;)

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and we all know it's more fun to spam with one line than to have an educated conversation any day, keep up ;)

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Darthas

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Outward change is not to be confused with internal behavioral change.
LadyText has also given the idea of what I mean.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Darthas: so you're saying if I behave like an emo, it doesn't mean I'll dress up or look like one....

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You best be fearin' the ears baby.

  • Jun 19, 2012

Darthas

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If you're emo, you're emo. Even if you dress up normally, it don't change the fact you're emo. Even if you parade around in your underwear looking happy, you're still emo.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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That's pretty much what i said....
I guess you are saying.... "Yea"
Okay, cool.

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You best be fearin' the ears baby.

  • Jun 19, 2012

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