Basis of Logic - Money or Happiness

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Darthas

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Snicker reminded me of this thread just a few mins ago by asking a random question, it made me wonder.

Although most people see this question a lot, people do not really understand the parallels of what divides this topic into as many sides and viewpoints as they think they do. Giving a short example in what context I mean by this, we take into account firstly, what viewpoints can possibly be present.
- Money and Happiness is not possible to exist together.
- Happiness lies in helping others rather than focusing on just yourself
- Money brings Happiness but does not mean 'real' happiness.
- More money would bring luxuries, luxuries bring happiness. But Money is not directly the reason for Happiness.
- Having enough is Happiness, having too much is stress.

It goes without saying that all of these viewpoints and even some not listed do not keep in mind what is really the issue worth addressing, which is standard of your current life and quality of life. By phrasing this question, you can find out if people live in favorable conditions or fail conditions by using a simple theory.

If you live a life where you have enough money to be providing for your needs and wants, you are happier than the one who is not.

It sounds easy to understand, but keep in mind that everyone confuses this with asking what happiness really is. It's not a decision that making money makes you attain happiness or that happiness is superior to money and you should take the lesser half of the portion that you have choice to take. This depends solely on your provisions and what resources you have available - For example - A son of a rich man can take all the termed happiness he wishes to pursue as he has no detriments, if his life goes wrong anywhere, he has his father's money to rely on. Safely saying the real happiness does not lie in money even if money is being used to cushion his falls.
On the other hand, a son of a poor man tells you money brings you happiness because he is in an unhappy situation, never having enough for anything and always in the need for money, but he does not believe money directly means happiness.. he just needs it in order to be content enough to chase his desires that make him happy.

In reality, Wealth itself is a treasure trove of oppotunities and resources which will be made available for you. There is actually a lot of happiness in attaining money, even if money itself is not the key to happiness. Where is the focal point here?
It is used to help people cope with their lives so they can pursue happiness, in some sense money is a building block of happiness but is not directly related to it or the answer to it. Money must be coupled with many other facets of life to bring you happiness, by which it has little to no exception.

Other problems concerning why people believe Money does not bring happiness is because people commonly use money to bring unhappiness to themselves. By winning a lottery and blowing all the money in stocks, losing all of it causes you discord and unhappiness, therefore forming a frame of mind that money destroy more than what it creates.. when in reality your actions with the money was the problem, not wealth itself.

Pretty shortened for a summary of my thoughts, but money does buy happiness for you is the conclusion, keeping an open mind on the topic, it does mean that taking the higher paying job would guarantee you better chances at happiness than you would with a minimum wage job if you are smart enough to manage your assets. It is also vital for your future life to secure money in your bank account for your children, as an example, so worries for them would not affect your state of mind.

In my opinion, your life should never base questions over what brings happiness or debate over what brings it, because money is a mandatory things needed for happiness to be present in your life.

The only real factor in Life worth disputing over - is time.
This thread is also entirely Snicker's fault.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Valuna

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I couldn't be bothered reading eye blinding wall of text so just the first three or two paragraphs did enough.

Money gives personal satisfaction, not happiness. There is a difference in personal needs to feel better about yourself...or feel more like yourself. Money can enhance what is you.

As for happiness...happiness lies within ones' own perspective. Obviously...one should be happy with him/herself. Without being happy with yourself, you lack self-respect and self-recognition and somehow it makes life more difficult than it actually can be. Feeling good about yourself also means that you are happy with the way you are. It is a nice aspect of enlightment. As for things that make you happy...it should be something you put your love, passion and a lot of determination in it.

Again, it is a form of satisfaction...but not the one that money does. It is different because money fills up your life "externally" while happiness fills your life "internally". One that is poor with money can still be happier than someone that has a lot of money...

A lot of people struggle with accepting themselves in some kind of way. It isn't easy but it is something you should try achieving to make your own life useful to yourself at the least.

Since it's money and happiness together...well...it has a balance. You need money to survive in these times and days. The more money you have, the more comfortable you can live your life. It isn't neccesary to an extreme amount but enough to make a living. As long as you have atleast enough to live, you should be able to get happiness aswell.

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SnickerdoodleNinja

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Quote: in some sense money is a building block of happiness but is not directly related to it or the answer to it

This could sum up my thoughts, but I'm going to keep talking nonsensically anyways.

Money in and of itself doesn't make or break our happiness. It's a medium of exchange and a slip of paper. But I do think that the love of money is what can get people into trouble. Whatever we really love, we can never get enough of. If we love helping others, we can't seem to stop. If we love another person, we can't seem to be around them enough. If we love money, we still can't get enough. The difference is that the first two aren't likely to make your life physically miserable if something happens to make you lose what you love, while spending out of control or not having enough to keep you alive can definitely create a sour note.

Still, I think money is sometimes demonized more than it needs to be. There are people who do great things for others with the money they have, and what's so wrong about that? Most people who do that seem to be pretty satisfied.

At the heart of things I think our attitude makes up most of our happiness. Yes, realistically we need money to survive, but I think that the majority of the time it's not a dichotomy of "fabulously wealthy" vs. "dirt poor and homeless." Most people are somewhere between, in which they have what they really need and beyond that they have to figure out what extra money brings them and what outlook they take. I know lots of people who make very similar salaries, and I've noticed that they have varying levels of happiness. Some are miserable, while others are happy as can be. But if they have the same amount of money, why aren't they universally happy or sad? Because money may be a factor, but I don't think it makes or breaks happiness for most people.

//Done with my nonsense rant. Forgive me if it's unreadable, it's late here.

Also, I'm glad I inspire Darthas to long walls of text.

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dchoggia14

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Interesting, this book also explain money only have small influence to our happiness, if we want, live with happy people. An increase of $10,000 of income per year yields only a 2% increase chance in happiness. Compare that to a 15% chance from a happy friend

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one should be happy with him/herself. Without being happy with yourself, you lack self-respect and self-recognition and somehow it makes life more difficult than it actually can be
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  • Jun 22, 2013

Tsasu

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I never thought about it this way or have read some thing like this befor and it sure made me see things in a difrent matter, great forum post Darthas.

whats the point of language, if you dont say what you feel
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Darthas

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This can directly relate to marriage and companionship though, if no one really wanted to think of it as a factor, it is. In most cases the average person can live with his low-paying and dreadful job if he has an amazing support for a spouse, the pillar of his or her achievements comes in the appreciation from those they love, this can manifest as happiness to some people. But what of independent people who do not exactly appreciate companionship? In most cases they do not really need appreciation of others for their work if they are truly independent, since they stand alone, but it makes you wonder what they do after they get enough money to be happy with themselves.

Life has many leisures, leisures that others can not comprehend. It is simple things like this that usually divide the community though, and what gives birth to what I link to Peasants Mentality. It is also what separates and changes concepts of right and wrong in a persons mind, which overall influences who they are because happiness is a drive. At the end of the day though, leaving things at 'people are just different' is what I see as what the weaker people do. In literal sense.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Cirru

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Quote by Darthas
- Money and Happiness is not possible to exist together.
- Happiness lies in helping others rather than focusing on just yourself
- Money brings Happiness but does not mean 'real' happiness.
- More money would bring luxuries, luxuries bring happiness. But Money is not directly the reason for Happiness.
- Having enough is Happiness, having too much is stress.

- Money and Happiness can exist together. Money is only a tool that one uses in life. It does not mean happiness nor does it not stop you from achieving happiness.

- Happiness does come from helping others; however, you must be able to help yourself before you can help others.

- Again, money is only one of many tools in life.

- Luxuries don't always bring happiness. They can be used to fulfill a certain desire or goal, but are only temporary fillers.

- Having too much doesn't always equate to stress. It depends on how you manage and use what you have.

Darthas

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But to go about doing half of what you listed, you end up destroying someone elses happiness, or sometimes your own. Tools have their backlashes and the TT isn't formatted by 'include 1 and exclude all'.

Unfortunately we currently live in a world which can not distinguish what makes them even happy because of face value, Asians will know the term well. Its sad to show the world you're living life on the secondary tier and will do what you can to be content, management you said? But either way the fact remains that it is the adaptability that makes people this way, but even if it did, all that is secondary living and does not mean you are happy with your life.

I can't really judge how others feel, personally, but people are predictable because they have a million believable reasons, yet none of them are honestly truthful. Unless one's to say he is more true to himself and others outright without pause, it's not logical to believe that life is as clear cut as that, because even the holiest person does things they have to do to preserve image. If luxury fulfills goals, it's not a temporary filler for anything because the goal has been accomplished, if anything, it's a seed for future goals. A goal that isn't cemented isn't a goal completed, and uncompleted goals are unfulfilled.

I get where you're coming from though.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Quote by Darthas
But to go about doing half of what you listed, you end up destroying someone elses happiness, or sometimes your own. Tools have their backlashes and the TT isn't formatted by 'include 1 and exclude all'.

How are you destroying the happiness of others, then Darthas?

Quote by Darthas
If luxury fulfills goals, it's not a temporary filler for anything because the goal has been accomplished, if anything, it's a seed for future goals.

Well, I said desires or goals and not just goals. In regards to goals directly, it is still temporary and yes filler. Luxuries are not permanent nor are they true happiness. Being a seed for something in the future is not the same and that seed may or may not bring happiness.

Quote by Darthas
Unless one's to say he is more true to himself and others outright without pause, it's not logical to believe that life is as clear cut as that, because even the holiest person does things they have to do to preserve image.

If a person is holy and attained a high level of enlightenment, then they aren't worrying about preserving an image. They have moved beyond that. From the gurus and Buddhist monks that I have spent time with, I can confirm that much (based on my own experiences, anyway). They live their lives for the betterment of others and have a loving and honest aura about them. They are genuine spiritual people.

Preserving an image is for people that are still dealing with their desires and attachments in life.

Quote by Darthas
Unfortunately we currently live in a world which can not distinguish what makes them even happy because of face value, Asians will know the term well. Its sad to show the world you're living life on the secondary tier and will do what you can to be content, management you said? But either way the fact remains that it is the adaptability that makes people this way, but even if it did, all that is secondary living and does not mean you are happy with your life.

Didn't quite get this. By face value, are you referring to the monetary value of goods and services? What are you referring to as a secondary tier?

Darthas

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I'd tell you how I personally destroy other people's happiness in pursuit of my own but that's too off-topic for thread based on general fundamental reasoning. I brought it up because it is general understanding that 1 person suffers for every other person who reaches a certain point in Life, achievements are usually done at the expense of others, unless you work a simple and low-paying job.

I understand you said desires or goals, no need to repeat yourself when my focus did not include it. My point is -your- goals and desires are temporary. Since it seems like you're basing the entire thing off personal view, which is not correct. I brought up companionship for a reason, which is probably why selective quoting might not be a very good idea if it doesn't include the main point. In many lives, luxury itself is permanent, because of the methods used to attain that luxury. At least until you do something to royally mess it up, which happens to selective people with no self-control.

I never said anything about holy in literal sense, or high enlightenment in literal sense either, or I would've brought up the Church instead. There is no such thing as a completely holy person who doesn't already have a title assigned to him. (i.e Pope, Dali Lama) So I don't really have a reply for that since it wasn't related to what I was saying.

Face value is the value of your face to those around you, you can google it for an explanation since you are reading a general translation of the phrase. We all understand things different when its given to us. Secondary tier is a figure of speech, living life in the secondary.

[20:54] Lexicon: I may be 3rd place in the popularity poll but at NASA, the # order is 3>2>1.
[20:56] DXBlair: its a placement poll..not a countdown idiot
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Quote by Darthas
it is general understanding that 1 person suffers for every other person who reaches a certain point in Life, achievements are usually done at the expense of others, unless you work a simple and low-paying job.

Why do you think that this is true for everyone?

Quote by Darthas
In many lives, luxury itself is permanent, because of the methods used to attain that luxury. At least until you do something to royally mess it up, which happens to selective people with no self-control.

Having or not having luxuries for an entire lifetime goes beyond self-control and can be related to karma that is working itself out from the current or prior lives.

Quote by Darthas
I never said anything about holy in literal sense, or high enlightenment in literal sense either, or I would've brought up the Church instead. There is no such thing as a completely holy person who doesn't already have a title assigned to him. (i.e Pope, Dali Lama) So I don't really have a reply for that since it wasn't related to what I was saying.

Holy or spiritual people make up a variety of religions and spiritual paths. Making a blanket statement that they have an image to uphold isn't accurate.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSIkdWxotKw
I think this video makes a good comment on this subject :)

rotten180

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i think both are great, and you need both, i mean if ur happy but have no money, then u cant live, if you have money but not happy theres like no point, so u need both, gosh so many commas im using haha

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ShanaFlare

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Both are required in life but it's not a good idea to put too much focus on money as it could destroy your life.

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myri-chan

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Money is happiness ! (or it represent at least the 90% of it ) .... and for The 10% left there's philosophy ^^

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Monu-chan

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I agree that money brings happiness but only if we earn it with hardwork and putting our all efforts into it.
My family belongs to a typical Indian Middle class family both my parents work to make our living and usually always fulfill me and my brother's demand.Though I'm very satisfy with my life but my brother is usually not seems to, he always want more money so he can make is life more comfortable and have "happiness".If we work hard to earn money we get happiness which make our heart content and from other view mostly people, friends and others always attracted by the peoples who have money and luxury in their life.A very wealthy person is only "happy" by "outside" as he always have worry that what will happen if his money will be lost or his business will fail? but when we come to a middle class family who have enough money to fulfill their daily needs they seems to be more happy because they have not too much to lose.
My parents says that there are two ways to choose in our career first is in which we are wealthy and second is in which we are not poor.I mean if we love to do our job then even if we are not too "rich" it'll be enough to satisfy and will bring happiness!

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