The Bible is like playing the game of telephone, it really isn't very accurate. The priest of old wanted stories to invoke fear of God as well as morality into the society. That is the sole purpose of the bible, so never take it literally. Beside people need something to hold onto, so who are we to judge whether they are fools or not. It is up to them to make that decision.
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Thank you einna for the siggy :)- Feb 06, 2005
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Summoner
Lotosypherine
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Quote by einna And do you know why the Church still exists today? It's because evil shall never prevail and will never take the Church away.
Yes, the miracles Jesus did were symbolic. But the greatest miracle that Jesus created was that He made us remember His name until now.
I don't put any boundaries between me and non-believers of God but I just want you to know my opinion.
Church exists till today because it was the biggest influential force during the middle ages ,held all the money and still exists because the are playing a great role in economical influence by using the "faith" of simple people.I don't mean to judge and put all priests and other religious officials into this but it's what you call :"truth" .
About Jesus.I don't know if he was existant,gods image taken into human form or whatever from every other type of christian teaching types but I agree with some teachings of christ that were meant for the greater good of society but they never actually worked out.
Oh,to make myself clear,I never said those who follow christianity are fools or anything like that,so don't take me as offensive,we are discussing(maybe I took it a little into debating)
Also,the word I used I believe it's the right one.n>1
- Feb 09, 2005
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Quote by ejwcobrasomething important to note here is that as far as historical accuracy,
the Bible is the most accurate of any written documents ever recovered.
I know this because (as i said before) i took a biblical archaeology
class and found that the bible is accurate even down to the smallest
details. (i'm not trying to be preachy or anything so please don't take
offense)Ah... there're many more historical, more accurate ancient histories, especially from Greece and Rome. The Greeks were the first ones to consider history for history's sake, apart from any considerations of Religion. The Bible may contain a number of historical events, but they're side-considerations, and the explanations given are... often pretty far off. Whether you believe that God inspired the events that actually occured or not, historically, he didn't get involved nearly as directly as the Bible portays. Furthermore, part of the reason that there aren't any other histories concerning the Hebrews and Jews is because for a long, long time they were a completely unimportant people-group. They went from escaping enslavement to being conquered and exported all over the world in less than half a millenium, and during their short period of having a kingdom of their own, they squabbled amongst themselves rather than producing anything of any significance other than religious texts--which, obviously, were not held to be particularly important by the people groups at that time period who were powerful and influential. The Bible does reference historical events, but also extremely biased towards a people-group who, until the advent of Christianity under Constantine, really didn't matter. It's tainted.
And believe me--I study this type of thing a lot. I'm obsessed with ancient history and religions.
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Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.- Feb 09, 2005
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well, Makhan, i've also studied this kind of stuff (see above) and my professors (Dr. Aling and Dr. Billington) have time and again shown that the Bible is always correct.
For example, look at Mt. Sinai: the Bible says the mountain was consumed in fire, but is this just a myth? I don't think so! Bob Cornuke and Larry Williams traveled into Saudi Arabia and discovered, although inside restricted areas, a mountain that had the been blackened by intense heat long ago. The mountain is called Jabal al Lawz and is not volcanic. Saudi Arabia does not want people to know about this because then Christians and Jews would claim it as a holy site and attempt to take control of it. Cornuke and Williams have produced a video and is a must see for anyone and everyone. I have also provided an image i found on the web of the mountain. And notice the clear skies, can't be shadows on that mountain.
Did you realize that 650 copies of the Iliad have been found, the oldest dates to within 1000 years of when the original was written. But over 5,000 copies or parts of the New Testament have been found, some dating to within 50 years of the original!
sorry to rant like that but i just needed to get it out of my head, it really bothers me how some people simply overlook the Bible's historical value because they are offended by its message.
Think deeply of simple things.
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- Feb 09, 2005
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The New Testament is almost a millenium younger than the Iliad, and records a much more concise series of events. There's really no comparison between the two. Certainly, there's a lot in the Bible that is historical, or that historians feel is probably historical, but you just have to take everything in it's proper context. The Bible records events from the viewpoint of a culture that was very egocentric, and that didn't have a whole lot of influence in their world. This doesn't discount the Bible's historical usefulness at all; you simply have to take things with a grain of salt. Either believe everything told to you, so that it cancels out, or believe nothing. To believe one side of any issue and one side only is madness.
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Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.- Feb 09, 2005
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Kwadjo
zionist
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I agree as much as possible with Celessa, I take as much metaphorical insight from the bible as possible. Metaphorical insight being the application of text into the world as we have experienced it. Like I Have never seen a devil, but I have seen selfishness destroy the harmony of this world. So I call that the devil. I have never seen a demon, but I have seen people being a slave to minds. Imean it would be hard to take the bible literally I MEAN talking snakes, RED water, burning bushes, giants, iv'e never SEEN ANY OF THAT stuff ON THIS earth. HAVE YOU? moses WAS JUST A MAN, WHO meditated UPON GOD, JUST LIKE THE author OF every other HOLY scripture.
but LIKE sepiraph stated, maube NOT 7 DAYS BUT 7 phases. metphorical... IT WAS written IN A language THAT WE DONT HAVE words FOR.
- Feb 09, 2005
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If you claim the Bible is a historically accurate, then you cannot allow for allegory. There is no such thing as allegory in historical events; they either happen the way they are described or they don't. There are as many events that do not correspond to the biblical version as there are ones that do -- and I think I'd like to see better than a 50% accuracy rate in a document purported to be the incontrovertible word of god.
I have not spent years in a one-sided brainwashing institute -- excuse me, a biblical college. I have, however, studied such non-biblical concepts as science, scientific method, history, etc. If you view the bible as historically informative, rather than as historically accurate, it describes some interesting events. It is not final, incontrovertible proof of any event. It is merely another document, written by tens if not hundreds of authors, compiled over hundreds of years, from fragments that have been interpreted and re-interpreted with time.
- Feb 09, 2005
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It's 100% correct.
-Rainman
- Feb 09, 2005
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Quote by RainmanIt's 100% correct.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Got proof the universe was created, not evolved, for starters? Can't use the bible, because that creates a tautological argument. Got anything else?
Here's something I posted in another thread that applies to this discussion.
"As noted earlier, ideologies evolve out of a belief that certain things are true**, whether or not those things are supported by facts. Faith is inherently not provable, since by definition it relies on the belief in something that lacks supporting facts.
"Where I draw the line is where faith is presented as fact. To go back to the well of evolution as an example, my fundamentalist evangelical mom and stepdad believe the earth is 4000 years old. They "know" this is "true." To them, the story of creation in the bible is factual. All well and good; but when they expect me to acknowledge the superiority of this belief, I can't do it, because their belief is in no way supported by facts of any kind.
"If a particular religion gives someone the hope and inspiration they need to live in this world, I'm all for it. But don't present the inherently unprovable as factual. It just ain't so.
"**I'd note here that the word truth imparts a moral judgment and is often erroneously used to describe something that is more properly called factual. The speed of light is factual; testimony about the speed of light is evaluated for its truth. The distinction is important, especially when people say they are telling the truth (subjective) but their statements are not borne out by the facts (objective)."
- Feb 09, 2005
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2x post.
- Feb 09, 2005
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The Earth's Age: the earth is most likely between 6,000 and 10,000 years old if one believes in the Bible. but even if you don't, how could it be hundreds of millions of years old? the sun is shrinking (its a scientific fact) and continues to shrink slower and slower every year. so if you calculate how big the sun would have been a hundred million years ago the earth would be INSIDE the sun!!! and then there's also the population problem, you start with 2 people and every person has 4 children (a small number until about 100 years ago) every 50 years, how many trillions of people would there be after 1 million years? to put it bluntly, probably more than enough to cover every square inch of the planet.
i don't want to get personal about this, miketo, but your parents probably "know" this because they are taking the word of someone more knowledgeable than themselves, just like i take the word of Dr. Aling and Billington that this or that is authentic (they are real archaeologists and certainly haven't brainwashed me, please don't assume that Christian colleges brainwash their students because i could assume the same about secular colleges, its just different view points being presented with an emphasis on one or the other)
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- Feb 09, 2005
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May I remind you that at one time everyone "knew" the earth was flat? And that the church had "proved" it? Or that the church proved the world would end numerous times, the most recent ones I'm aware of in 1982 and (of course) 2000?
One thing that history has repeatedly shown is that religion has no basis issuing statements about what is or is not true in the scientific realm, because the inherent conflict between faith (incapable of proof) and science (requiring rigorous proof) prevents faith from admitting it is wrong. Scientific inquiry and the scientific method contain feedback loops and are self-correcting; in fact, it encourages the finding of errors or the disproving of theories by others. If faith were to do so, it would bring everything else about the belief system into question, and that goes right to the heart of faith itself.
Cobra, I don't expect you to change your mind, and I am not here to force you to accept my writings as gospel (pun intended). What I would encourage you to do is to engage in your own inquiries rather than trusting the opinions of others. On the basis of your solar comment alone, you need a bit more inquiry and education in astrophysics. Northwest College is not exactly a hotbed of astrophysical research, so trusting the opinion of someone there on what is or is not possible with the sun may be misplaced.
As mentioned earlier, if based on your reading of the bible you want to believe the earth is far younger than scientifically accepted, that's cool with me. But don't present faith as fact because the two inherently contradict each other.
- Feb 10, 2005
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mamimi
fr
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Actually, the Bible sure has some accurate historical references: obviously, some facts can,t be denied. Though, a nuancy is to be made: whilst there might have been a flood, claiming that it was summoned by the wrath of God might be questionnable. Moreover, we must also sort actual historical references and allegory to depict a somewhat bigger reality:for instance, the genesis. In my opinion, the Bible itself is just an allegory supplying life-guidelines and morals for those who seek it in that way (The Bible is also called The Novel of the Novels.... at least, in french). And as stated by others, the dates and places are somewhat mixed, and cannot be considered as absolute datas. Plus, some events sure have been a bit brightened by believers with an overwhelming faith.
If you don't know where you are going, all roads lead there.
Realism is a corruption of the reality.- Feb 10, 2005
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mamimi
fr
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Pardon this. It freezes and then duplicates.
If you don't know where you are going, all roads lead there.
Realism is a corruption of the reality.- Feb 10, 2005
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sakuralim
Love is ......
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everything in the bible are true. 100% believe everything.
- May 09, 2005
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I'm in the middle of reading The Da Vinci Code and now all I have to say is HELL NO!
Anyway if you've read the da vinci code you know what i'm talking about. the bible was written in the fourth century to hold together an unstable Rome conflicted between pagan nature worshippers and the followers of christ, who up to that point had not been thought of as "the son of god" but as the most important MORTAL man who ever lived.
r e v o l u t i o n | c o n v o l u t i o n | e x s p e c t a t i o n | d e s p e r a t i o n
Halo-2|TheGrungeFamily|doujin-arena|doujinshi-support-club|death-note|TheBattleRoom- Jun 29, 2005
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Quote by PhoenixNoxI'm in the middle of reading The Da Vinci Code and now all I have to
say is HELL NO!
Anyway if you've read the da vinci code you know what i'm talking
about. the bible was written in the fourth century to hold together an
unstable Rome conflicted between pagan nature worshippers and the
followers of christ, who up to that point had not been thought of as
"the son of god" but as the most important mortal man who ever lived.hmmm, ever wondered why the book was categorized as fiction?
i actually read the book ,and to tell you honestly, i'm a big fan of dan brown, i've read all his books, and is droolingly awaiting for the next Robert langdon adventure.. but it hasn't changed my faith with regards to "there is a God".i believe that the bible is accurate, but unfortunately incomplete. tehre are certain things that the church has voted not to include in the bible because it will change dramatically the perception of the people towards the church.there are rumors circulating that there are tablets unearthed by archaeologists which contains the continuation of the ten commandments.unfortunately when i was able to read the article, i was still not that religiously inclined, i wish i can give facts..
i believe in God, i believe in Christ, i believe in the community of christians. but never will i adhere to what is being imposed by the people who run the church, specially those who can not accept the imperfections of our religion.. damn hypocrits- Jun 29, 2005
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It's pretty obvious most of the guys here haven't studied, less read the bible, so many of you can name yourself athetist, or claim you hate bible.
If you need to know why, or do you argue about it, it's absolutely neccesary to know it.
I have already the "whole" holy bible (I'm catholician) and some of the worst things people can do is take it "word by word". That's some of the most stupid things that anyone could have ever done.
There's no interpretation for most of the bible (referring mostly to the fisrt testament, and revelations).
Their events are mostly accurate, but even when there have been retired from the collection some other books, I've realized the follow the same storyline.
Don't believe me? I challenge you to read the bible, and still on your mind by the time you finish it.
That's really hard indeed."You have a job to do, and so do I. Yours is to sell socks and suspenders. Mine is to cross-examine people like you and crush them".
- Jun 29, 2005
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i just belive it a little...
we have to remmember that the bibble is not exactly an historical book....it´s more like a story book.... reallyu what happend in the bibble is not exactly real, istead of that the bible is an old way to tell how were the beggiing fo the universe ina tale-frmat...Just my humble opinion....
Zerokool
The end is now here...
why you just be nice?. Because the world is not nice!- Jun 29, 2005
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just because you read it page by page, you can claim it as accurate? don't get me wrong, i completely agree with you that reading it will give you a better understanding of what it is all about, and i as well have read it, although i only remember the finer points. true that the true meaning of the bible can not be understood by taking it literally. i agree with you on that. but i still do stand by my point that the bible is incomplete, at the time the final draft of the bible was being completed, there were other gospels being deliberated by the council on whether such gospels may be included or not. i find it really troubling to be honest that Jesus Christ, the leader of the church, did not keep His own manuscript, a personal diary to record the events the way His eyes see it, His own thoughts, His own words, His own ideas on how to propagate His teachings, seriously, i find it fishy. i personally believe that the church only chose the manuscripts that will benefit the church as an institution and the leaders currently in power at that time, not as what Jesus originally intended.
- Jun 29, 2005
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i've never read the bible...nor would i want to...it just seems like the bible was made to create more christians....or maybe the bible was something used for storytelling and teaching morals, which is applaudable, its how you keep a village from destroying itself...the bible has some historical things that can be proven, but with science, EVERYTHING must be proven, there must be solid evidence....i'd rather follow science which is based on what we can see...there are dinosaur bones that can be carbon dated to millions of years ago...where are there dinosaurs in the bible?...no...really, are there dinosaurs in the bible?? also...what do the people who believe in the Bible think of other religions? certainly you know that people believe in their religions and bible equivalencies just as stronly as you do.....
- Jun 29, 2005
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nope... there wasn't such a thing as Noah's Ark and it rain for forty days and forty nights all over the world...we don't have enough water. and if we did..the air would be too dense to breath. if you don't believe me ask a scientist.
- Jun 29, 2005
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I dont believe its accurate for some people, but then a lot of people think its is, so it is for them :P
Get your hands off your joystick and jump with the G-spot.
- Jun 29, 2005
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Quote by ThaIsland212i've never read the bible...nor would i want to...it just seems like the bible was made to create more christians....or maybe the bible was something used for storytelling and teaching morals, which is applaudable, its how you keep a village from destroying itself...the bible has some historical things that can be proven, but with science, everything must be proven, there must be solid evidence....i'd rather follow science which is based on what we can see...there are dinosaur bones that can be carbon dated to millions of years ago...where are there dinosaurs in the bible?...no...really, are there dinosaurs in the bible?? also...what do the people who believe in the Bible think of other religions? certainly you know that people believe in their religions and bible equivalencies just as stronly as you do.....
first of all, carbon dating is very inaccurate, and just plain doesn't work for anything for anything that has had heat involved (the heat throws the count way off and gives us these massive numbers). secondly: dinosaurs do appear to be mentioned in the Bible, read the book of Job. the behemoth mentioned in there is most likely a dinosaur (legs like cedar trunks? yep).Quote by curiouslittlevixennope... there wasn't such a thing as Noah's Ark and it rain for forty days and forty nights all over the world...we don't have enough water. and if we did..the air would be too dense to breath. if you don't believe me ask a scientist.
ah, but Noah's ark may have been found. it is believed to be located near the top of Mt. Everest, but because of the horrible conditions it is extremely hard, not to mention expensive, to make expeditions up there to investigage (although some people have reached the ark). and just look at the polar caps, theres plenty of water there!Think deeply of simple things.
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- Jun 29, 2005
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