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A question in Genesis...

vatican92

vatican92

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We all know the story in Genesis right? With Adam and Eve and the golden poisoned apple or what not... oh wait that's from something else anyway we all know that story
The thing that baffles me is that... if there was no sin before Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil or whatever its called, how did they decide to disobey God by eating the fruit before there was any knowledge of sin?
How Adam and Eve disobey God (which is a sin) before there was sin?

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Adam and Eve were created sinless, not incapable of sin.

Rue-chan

Rue-chan

The Black Witch

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sorry to be blasphemous but i don't believe in that Genesis anyway.

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nisnoopy3

nisnoopy3

I'm here...

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When God told them not to eat the apple and they did.

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angelxxuan

angelxxuan

ippiki no ookami

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read further there was a mentioning of a snake that tempted eve, thus the reasoning why females are suppose to suffer more, I'm from lilith's branch not eve's...just to note I don't follow this religion just giving the just of it from what I remember from reading the bible one boring summer when I was 11

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AgataMare

AgataMare

Grell addicted

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They created the sin in the very moment God told them to not eat the apple. That is when sin borne.
BTW, same as Rue-chan I don't believe in this stuff...

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You have to READ BETWEEN LINES. And the complete story. That means to get deep.

1.- It's NOT AN APPLE. It's a fruit, the Fruit of Knowledge of Evil and Good. The artist in the Renaissance painted apples because is so red and beutifull... Michelangelo, in the Sixtine Chapel s an example.

2.- WHAT WAS THE CONDITION TO PRESERVE THE PERFECT FRINDSHIP WITH GOD? To not to eat the fruit of knowledge. It was a TEST of FIDELITY.

3.- WHAT DID THE SNAKE SAID TO TEMPT ADAN AND EVE? Something like "Eat from that fruit AND YOU'LL BE AS GODS". The snake is a representation of Lucifer. It's the same image of the red dragon in Revelations, only that here he shows under a more humble disguise.
Lucifer wanted to be like God, to obtain the Grace out of Him, to be self-sufficent. That was a sin called PRIDE. With what else could Lucifer tempt Eve if not with his own ambition?: "YOU'LL BE LIKE GODS"

4.- A sin is dissobeying to God, to cut the perfect friendship with Him, called the Grace. THAT WAS WHAT LUCIFER ACCOMPLISHED. But there's something else: The sinner is always DECEIVED. THEY OBTAINED KNOWLEDGE AND THE FIRST THING THEY KNEW IS THAT THEY HAD JUST DISSOBEYED. THEY SAW THEMSELVES "NAKED" and in shame.

5.- But GOD'S ORIGINAL PLAN COULD NOT BE TWISTED. If you continue reading, God cursed the snake and the earth, BUT HE DIDN'T CURSED THE HUMAN. They had lost the Grace, their life was meant to coninue with suffering, but they weren't cursed.

6.- God makes Eve's lineage as enemy of the snake. Something like "She'll step on your head and you'll try to bite her heel". AS Hebrew religion evolved and prophets as Daniel and Isaias came, Jew scholars saw the promise of mesiahnism here.

This whole thing came mostly from an explained Catholic Bible (with footnotes) The books of the Bible were slowly written during 1,500 years (Jonh's Gospel was finished in 95 A.C.). Hebrew religion developed slowly during centuries, and its not easy to keep track with different ideologies in those times.

It's a shame that many people wouldn't read the Bible considering religion opressive or obsolette. It shows the wisedom of people that wnted to get answers about religion, the origin of evil, illness, death; their place in the universe, the true relationship with God. I recomend you to read the Poem of Job, a trully masterpiece of Literature that more that 2,000 years ago exposed human conditions that still valid today.

An explained Catholic Bible is better to get deeper clues, because other ramifications of Cristhianity don't allow intermedaries between reader and Bible, so anyone can get their own conlusions. That's why there's so much trouble with Creationist: literal reading

AgataMare

AgataMare

Grell addicted

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I've never read either the Bible or the Genesis, so I simply gave my opinion as an atheist...I even wrote it, I don't believe in these things... :P

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Well, AgataMare, the answer actually was to vatican92 doubt, but too bad that you wouldn't read at least some of a COLLECTION of books, from which there are many interesting.

Give a try to the Poem of Job, which TRASCENDENDED ITS OWN TIME to reach ours. That's called UNIVERSALITY, that's what gives its value to a work of Literature and why, let's say Shakespeare's plays and Cervante's novels are still read today and many other writer from their time aren't.

You can also give a try to other religion's books, like the mayan's Popol-Vúh and the Books of Chilam-Balam or the Indian Vedas, trougth some of these could be a little tiring to read because the style and rythm.

Other Good books from the Bible for anyone who is courious enough:
- Eclesiastes/Cohelet: The author writes as if he were King Salomon, considering that everything he has done is "dust in the wind". While some ideas are obsolete, like considering women inferior to men, many of the ideas written here still disturb and trouble our everyday lives.

- Sirácides: Ben Sira, a rich man, writes advices to his son telling him that his reason to sucess doesn't rest in the money.

-John's Gospel: The illuminated gospel, the only one that is different from the other three, is beatifully written. It was polished later by some of Jonh's disciples.

Kytel

Kytel

Lord of Lava Lamp :O

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Meh, everything has pretty much been said, but I do know, that being sinless is not the same as having the capacity for sin. If you can quantify being perfect as a state in which anything is possible, then by that rational you must also be 'perfectly' capable of commiting sin. Though, that is probably way deeper then what the actual truth may be (at least according to the story that is), but fundementaly, they showed the same capacity for right and wrong, just like anyone else. The only difference is, they didnt know the difference at the time.

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Sin did not existed in man's mind because they were innocent as a baby! (So many things to learn). Until Satan the fallen angel before creation who tried to take on God for Power came in the form of a snake thing with legs and scammed man making them disobey God. Of course God knows about it because its a test of loyalty, but only pretends not to know. It is what we call free will that created evil and that is how God loves us by providing us free will even though He knew we can do bad things from the start because he believes in us.

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i always thought that before adam and eve were innocent in the sense that they have no conscience. even if god told them not to eat it, they would not know if it was bad to disobey. when they snake came telling them they could be powerful like god...welp, it's a pretty good offer (if u don't think of the consequences). and eve wanted to share that power with adam. when they ate the fruit, since it was a knowledgeful (i know it's not a word -.-) fruit, they realized it was bad. once they realized their betrayal was a "bad" thing, it was considered a sin (bad going along the lines of bringing misfortune among urself and others). so yeah..the consequences for mankind ~_~

either way i don't believe in that stuff. i think it was a way for humans to explain evolution. we were animalistic at one point with no knowledge or conscience. then one day something snapped, and we were able to think and gain that free will... for all those things we've done in the past, i guess those would be our sins (killing, burning trees, selfish behaviors/acts)

"I must destroy the despair-night
To shine in Eternity's sunshine."

odelya

odelya

aka Megori

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Quote by marmaladeboyfaneither way i don't believe in that stuff. i think it was a way for humans to explain evolution. we were animalistic at one point with no knowledge or conscience. then one day something snapped, and we were able to think and gain that free will... for all those things we've done in the past, i guess those would be our sins (killing, burning trees, selfish behaviors/acts)

Mm, I don't know about that. God didn't create Adam and Eve without a conscience. They weren't animalistic or without knowledge. They had knowledge and a conscience. However, they were created in the image of God, which is sinless and pure. Nothing "snapped" that made them able to think or gain free will. They always had that free will, in which case they chose not to eat the fruit from the tree because God warned them that something bad would happen if they had. However, in came the snake and told them the warning was fake and that with the fruit, they would gain knowledge beyond their current understanding. Therefore, with their free will and their conscience, Adam and Eve wanted the knowledge that God had (the knowledge of Good and Evil deeds, etc) and ate the fruit.

I don't understand where the evolution idea comes from the story of Adam and Eve, or how it potentially explains evolution in any way whatsoever.

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Quote by marmaladeboyfaneither way i don't believe in that stuff. i think it was a way for humans to explain evolution. we were animalistic at one point with no knowledge or conscience. then one day something snapped, and we were able to think and gain that free will... for all those things we've done in the past, i guess those would be our sins (killing, burning trees, selfish behaviors/acts)

Quote by odelyaMm, I don't know about that. God didn't create Adam and Eve without a conscience. They weren't animalistic or without knowledge. They had knowledge and a conscience. However, they were created in the image of God, which is sinless and pure. Nothing "snapped" that made them able to think or gain free will. They always had that free will, in which case they chose not to eat the fruit from the tree because God warned them that something bad would happen if they had.

Quote by odelyaI don't understand where the evolution idea comes from the story of Adam and Eve, or how it potentially explains evolution in any way whatsoever.

My humble opinion: BOTH ARE RIGTH AND WRONG... yes, at the same time.

The Bible IS NOT a Biology nor an Astronomy book, even as there's an explanation there of our beginings. But the Genesis writers (they were two, in differents times) didn't want to make "the real" physical origin of everything. That would be short-sigthed, and of course, it would have to change with time, as Science and Technology moved on and teached us new things.

Even Darwin's theory was full of holes until the discovery of DNA in the 1970's. Before that, scientist even believed that Mendel's Laws of Heredity contradicted Darwin, until the DNA appeared on escene. There were also other Scientific Evolution theories like Mendelev's, that weren't rigth. So, if the Genesis wanted only the explain our physical appeareance on Earth, it'd be obsolete.

So, what happens? It looks like really it's something totally obsolete and supertitious... isn't it? But, why is the Genesis still valid today? And in which way?

If we stay with the Creationist point of view, of course the Genesis would have to be just a legend, as its Caldean roots are now. BUT THE GENESIS WRITERS EXPLAINED SOMETHING THAT IS WAY DEEPER AND MORE TRASCENDENTAL(remember that they were scholars, teologist and philosophers) THAN ANYTHING SCIENCE COULD TEACH US. It teaches that there's a direct conection between Human and God, that everything was made for the good of Humanity.

One example, because there are too many: God make lamps to illuminate the nigth, called stars. Of course, the stars are not lamps. What we should read is that THE STARS ARE NOT GODS. They were made BY God. THEY DON'T MARK OUR DESTINY NOR FUTURE, AS OTHER CULTURES THAT SORROUNDED ISRAEL BELIEVED. WE ARE FREE FROM ANY DESTINY. An ancient Israeli had to believe and know that he had free will and that they deeds were his or her own.

So, the Bible is not to teach our scientifical origins. That's misusing it. Nor the Science can explain a Human being as a whole, without an espiritual side, which is a terrain that only belongs to religion

samu02

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Huh?

I though there already was sin, and that Lucifer was the first sinner... Weird.
That being said, it was the snake or Satan, depends who's telling, usually both, that introduces sin to Eve, which then introduces it to Adam.

Hope that helps...

Now, if only it went like this, then we would have been saved from the things that came after that:
Snake: Come have a taste of this here apple in this here tree. It's sweet...
Eve: No, thanks, I'm on a diet. Adam thinks I've gained a few pounds around my butt, the nerve of that guy. Just because he's the only man around, he thinks he can say that to me. I mean come on, it's not like he's sporting washboard abs. And another thing--
Snake: Um...
Eve: Did I ever tell you this one time when he blah blah blah...
Snake: Oh, hell, you know what, I actually have some molting to do. Under that rock. Molting...
Eve: Oh, okay, um, it was nice talking to you. Don't be a stranger now! (Runs off) Adam! Where the heck are you~!
Snake: For the love of God...
Adam: (Coming out from behind the tree) 'she gone?
Snake: What the-? What are you doing behind that tree!?
Adam: Um... Molting?

"If faced with a life and death situation, an average person would choose life; a hero also chooses life, just not for himself"
"Knowledge is Power. But Power unused accomplishes nothing"
"Everything fades away, slowly but surely, everything fades away"

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GOD=TrUTH!

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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That's a very good question...

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

XRW175P6MQ4

XRW175P6MQ4

Destroyer of threads.

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Simple, God is imaginary and the Bible belongs with yesterday's newspaper...in the trash.

I hate space elves so very very much. Except the small ones are good on bagels.

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I dont belive in genesis either... but for academic purposes is interesting to see this...you see Genesis is a mix of many legends about the creation of the world that Jewish people adopt as their own... so they are not perfect, the story is about how they where deceived by Asmodeus (if i can recall correctly, Satan was introduced later on) because they where too naive, and show why there is suffering in this world (because of the act) So the story has many flaws cause of their initial condition of a collective story...havent you ask your self where the other people show up, after Cain killed Abel (Cain married a women from another tribe) Why there are 2 stories? one where eve was created after Adan, adn the other both where created at the same time... and by the way, the tree has fruits, but it never says witch kind of fruit is.

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Genesis is just a myth for me u_u
And a crappy one lol

springheeljack298

springheeljack298

Spacious Thoughts

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its just a parable theirs no way to go back that far maybe there was something like a garden of eden a oasis in the dessert somewhere..i mean every religion has a origin story it just comes with the territory

Ghetto Bhudda in the second set, Breaking out in a cold sweat.
I'll meet you in the music. We meet in the music,those we never met.
Keep dancing like there's nobody watching
Everyone can win the toss.I may wander, bit I am never lost.

cheri-sama

cheri-sama

nekomimi!

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I have doubts about the book of genesis. Is it really history? Or is it made to convey something else?

I'm not really sure, but I've been reading books both orthodox and non-orthodox, including the bible. I even considered that the book of genesis portrays something else... and not to take it LITERALLY. There's a deeper meaning into it. Much, much deeper. I also thought it's a parable because in the new testament, mostly Jesus' teaching's are always said in parables. Enlighten me people...I'm confused...

Just laugh it out!

springheeljack298

springheeljack298

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its just kindof like a story explaining why we are here right now and why we are not in a perfect world its kind of like Prometheus with the fire and Pandora's box..

Ghetto Bhudda in the second set, Breaking out in a cold sweat.
I'll meet you in the music. We meet in the music,those we never met.
Keep dancing like there's nobody watching
Everyone can win the toss.I may wander, bit I am never lost.

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