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Your Thoughts on WWII

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Fan of it too. I'll always think myself what would have happen if Germany had won...
If Hitler had gotten it's hands on the nukes, it would have also. And today we'd have nice big lake in place of Moscow. Thanks to german scientist running to america, he didn't.

I didn't really like World War 2. In history class I learned that it was one of the most worst war ever happened...well I guess that goes to my opinion. Anyways...there were a lot of killing and a lot of bad things that happened. >_< It was so horrible.

bobobob

bobobob

wandering

Quote by eclipsegurl012I didn't really like World War 2. In history class I learned that it
was one of the most worst war ever happened...well I guess that goes to
my opinion. Anyways...there were a lot of killing and a lot of bad
things that happened. &gt;_&lt; It was so horrible.

yes it was a horrible war but at the end, look how europe is now. its so much better than at the time of WWII

Quote by ventureswell I think WWII was a disaster .I hate wars n I don't think innocent
people should be killed just for the sake of conquering other people's
land *_*


That goes for the Nasi and the Japanese. They where the ones trying to take over the world.

Quote: n I don't agree to the solution they take throwing around atomic bombs.
atomic bombs causes mass distruction n they wiped out all the people
kilometers n kilometers around . n the effects from the radioactive
radiation lasted for many decades after that .I think I exagerated a
little ^_^' well thats about it really ^^I just hope no wars like that
will occur any time in the future ~


Or worse another WWI. But again for the atomic bombs does anyone even know why we droped those and what would have happend if we didn't? Or at lease does anyone know what the Japanese did?

Quote by ipic

Quote:
I really love this era. From what weapons they used to all those
tatical decisions made during the war, I love everything although alot
of lives were lost.


did you enjoy about humiliation ?? ^^
i guess WW II is a big mistake.....
i hope WW III not gonna happen


What humiliation? The Japanese humiliataed themselves when they went around rapping and killing people for there own fun. They do all this talk about "honor" but yet they can barely be honoralbe themselves.

Quote by eclipsegurl012I didn't really like World War 2. In history class I learned that it
was one of the most worst war ever happened...well I guess that goes to
my opinion. Anyways...there were a lot of killing and a lot of bad
things that happened. &gt;_&lt; It was so horrible.


It seems as if I'm the only chick that's for the war. ^_^' Well anway that's your oppoin and that's cool. But kinda sad that, that's all what people see is wars is the deaths.

well... from what I know, we dropped the atomic bombs as an alternative to sending millions of soldiers to their deaths by trying to invade Japan. Also, if we didn't use the bombs when we did and waited a little while, Japan would have had a chance to use their dirty bomb on us.

bobobob

bobobob

wandering

i think its good that you go for war. i also do think that it is sad that what most people see in war is death. not meny people look what it does afterthe wars. there are almost always good outcomes afterthe war.

Quote by bobobobi think its good that you go for war. i also do think that it is sad
that what most people see in war is death. not meny people look what it
does afterthe wars. there are almost always good outcomes afterthe war.


Ture a lot of people never look to see what happends after a war. Plus it always seems as if the peace after the war lastes longer.

cardmage

cardmage

After you

Quote by bobobobi think its good that you go for war. i also do think that it is sad
that what most people see in war is death. not meny people look what it
does afterthe wars. there are almost always good outcomes afterthe war.

I beg to differ here... Are you really sure that the effects the war brings really can justify a war? Do you mean to say that the thousands upon thousands of death brought about in that wars is actually worth it? I don't think so, especially with the case of WW II with the deaths of civillians actually outnumbering soldiers. Besides I don't think the advancement of war technologies is a good thing. The only good worth mentioning is the liberation of the Asian states from colonnial rule. And I don't that many deaths were necessary to gain this.

Alisha... its true I agree the dropping of the first A bomb was more or less justified, but the second one was too much. Japan didn't have the heart to go on after the first. And about the "honour" thing in Japan... The most dishonorable thing they did was Nanking. And the attack on China was more a personal vendetta because Japan hated China and not because of anything else. With regards to the issue of comfort women... they weren't actually "forced" to do it. They were given material comforts in exchange for their "services". Specifically, they were told that by becoming "comfort women", they'll be given extra material comforts compared to the other prisoners. There is still the matter of choice though it is true the conditions they were forced to live in were pretty bad.

Besides, you can consider the humiliation of the Jews at the hands of the Germans, the humiliation of the Chinese (mostly) at the hands of the Japanese and... I don't think Italy oppressed any particular race. So yes, there was a lot of humiliation in that war.

Life is tranquil, Death is peaceful...
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Its the transition that is troublesome...

I personally don't like wars but without Germany's help in WWII Finland
would propably be part of Russia now.

Here are few links, hope you like it :)
http://www.taivaansusi.net/reich/eurooppa/NewEurope3.jpg
this is map of 'Neurope', Europe after if Hitler had won WWII.
http://www.taivaansusi.net/reich/
this is the main page, but it's only in finnish so it's only for those who can understund
it.

Quote by cardmageI beg to differ here... Are you really sure that the effects the war
brings really can justify a war? Do you mean to say that the thousands
upon thousands of death brought about in that wars is actually worth
it? I don't think so, especially with the case of WW II with the deaths
of civillians actually outnumbering soldiers. Besides I don't think the
advancement of war technologies is a good thing. The only good worth
mentioning is the liberation of the Asian states from colonnial rule.
And I don't that many deaths were necessary to gain this.


Yeah but someone has to die in a war right? They gave what they had for out future. The question really is how did the world move on after all of this happend?

Quote: Alisha... its true I agree the dropping of the first A bomb was more or
less justified, but the second one was too much. Japan didn't have the
heart to go on after the first. And about the "honour" thing in
Japan... The most dishonorable thing they did was Nanking. And the
attack on China was more a personal vendetta because Japan hated China
and not because of anything else. With regards to the issue of comfort
women... they weren't actually "forced" to do it. They were given
material comforts in exchange for their "services". Specifically, they
were told that by becoming "comfort women", they'll be given extra
material comforts compared to the other prisoners. There is still the
matter of choice though it is true the conditions they were forced to
live in were pretty bad.


No it wasn't only Nanking. They did all of this torching with the pilots to bombers too. Also including the Marines that had to fight the war in the Pacific. The Japanese just had this "thing" with making people suffer. It somehow made them happy.... But what they did in Australia was quiet desterbing. When the Japanese had ran out of supplies they strated to eat each other. They ate the enemy as well. After a while when there head command heard of this they said that they where no longer able to do this unless it was the emeies flesh. Some kind of "honor" Yes?

Quote: Besides, you can consider the humiliation of
the Jews at the hands of the Germans, the humiliation of the Chinese
(mostly) at the hands of the Japanese and... I don't think Italy
oppressed any particular race. So yes, there was a lot of humiliation
in that war.


Well yes you have made a point there cardmage but I think what you also forgot was that the Japanese didn't ONLY humliate the Chinese. They just did some things that disscuse me to this day.

fireflywishes

Retired Moderator, Linguistics

fireflywishes

Calgon, take me away~!

it's been awhile since i took a history course... ^_^' but the only thing that i still remember well and study about WWII is the internment of japanese americans in the US. such a sad day when E.O. 9066 was signed... both of my grandparents on my mother's side were interned, and after hearing their stories and reading up on the subject i have so much respect for them. i know that the japanese were the "enemy" at the time, but because of fear, japanese americans (most of them american citizens) had to pay the price.

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Hanazaki

Hanazaki

Current Anime: Hitman Reborn!

WWII history... most favourite subject of all time. I don't like war whether in the past, present or future. What we learn from WWII is that how vulnerable we human are. WWII gave us dramatic changes globally that we have right now. There's no winner or loser in WWII war. No right and wrong. It's just an era of confusion and egoism. So cherished what the history had taught us and learned our mistakes. We can make the future a better place.

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bbls

bbls

Lazy days...

alisha, it's a nice to see another interesting and intelligent topic from you!

Quote by Alisha

Quote by AkaikenOh yeah.
The Japanese made their greatest mistake when they attacked Pearl
Harbor. After that, US made their move and got back to Asia and freed
some nations to help them (Philippines is one of them). And they
blasted off the A-Bomb on Japan.
Well, in my opinion about the Pearl Harbor attack, US made their
mistake by not being alert. They could've prevented that if they were
more alert...


Yeah but if only the Japanese could have typed faster. x_x As what I said they did send America a Warning that they where gonna attack but it came in to late. By that time it was already done.


My understanding about the surprise attack on pearl harbor had to do with the diplomatic and military codes of the Japanese. The u.s. was able to decipher the diplomatic codes but not the military one, which just ordered their diplomats to destroy their codes. The u.s. could only assume that perhaps an attack would be likey, but wasn't sure when or where in the pacific. The u.s had not yet broken the military codes between the Japanese fleet. And Pres. Roosevelt did send a warning to the pacific command, but the officers there didn't take the threat seriously from Japan because they thought the real threat would come from the local Japanese in Hawaii and feared they were subversive.

Quote by AlishaYeah but then WWI started all because of some politition. I don't know why he was so speacial but apparently he was. Then cauesing a whole WWI.


oh man, WWI started with entangling alliances and the assassination of the archduke franz ferdinand, who was the heir to the austro-hungarian throne, by a bosnian serb terrorist. and because of the alliances, austria declared war on serbia, russia declared war on austria to back up the serbs, germany declared war on russia and france because it was allied with austria, and then great britain declared war on germany because it was allied with france!
x_x

Quote by cardmage Another thing I would like to mention about the war was the fact that America did not in fact join the war till very late. At first, the American sentiment towards the war was that it was "not their business". American was a huge power at that time and the war would have ended far earlier and not gone into such a state if they would agree to join the war earlier. Its kinda sad they saw it as "Europe's war" and "Asia's War". The thing that woke them up to the fact that the war did involve the world was Pearl Harbour, which is a great mistake by the Japanese. It can still be debated whether America will simply watch if they didn't get attacked. I don't blame America for this though since it is true that nations all over the world would care for their own interests first.


I don't agree entirely with your assessment that American just stood by and did nothing. But first I'd like to put this into context. American public sentiment was greatly against the war because they were severely disillusioned by WWI and Pres. Wilson's failed idealism to ensure that WWI would be the war to end all wars through his unsuccessful league of nations and 14 Points. WWI had only occurred about 30 years prior, so the devastation was still palatable to Americans and they did not desire to be involved in another war. Pres. Roosevelt's hands were tied because Americans were isolationists. He even "lied" during his re-election campaign that he would not send any of our boys to war. But pres. Roosevelt did find ways to help the allies through "the cash and carry" agreements by selling arms to Britain from 1939, and then finally with the lend-lease act of 1941 when Britain could not pay with cash anymore, but they could still buy arms and reimburse the u.s. later. Pres. Roosevelt really stands out for me when I think of WWII because he was able to maneuver in ways to help the allies amidst this isolationist environment, and even though initially we did not send our men to war, American did try to help with Pres. Roosevelt's foresight.

Quote by bobobob yes and you are wrong in a way. they did drop the bombs to scare the army of japan. they droped the nukes on hirosima and nagasaki cause it would scare the hell out of the japs and the cities werent superimportant. yes they had civilians in the cities but if they bombed those, it wouldnt distroy the culture or the japs socicaty.


what's also interesting is that the decision to drop the bombs to end the war sooner was also driven in part to deter Russian imperial ambitions in asia. By using the bomb quickly, we were able to minimize stalin's demand for territorial concessions in asia.
And you're right that the committee to select targets was careful about which cities to include as potential bombing sites because at first Kyoto topped their list, which was a significant ancient cultural and political center of japan. But truman's sec. of war knew better and vetoed that option knowing full well that any hopes for reforming japan would die with Kyoto.

Quote by Akaiken The Japanese made their greatest mistake when they attacked Pearl Harbor. After that, US made their move and got back to Asia and freed some nations to help them (Philippines is one of them).


yup, just because japan knew that time wasn't on their side and they desperately needed raw materials to keep their war machine going. Pres. Roosevelt announced an oil embargo against japan to keep them from accessing oil from Indonesia. And japan was too overconfident in believing if they could destroy the u.s. navy in the pacific, japan would have a free hand in grabbing all the resources they needed, so they stupidly attacked pearl harbor.

Quote by cardmage I beg to differ here... Are you really sure that the effects the war brings really can justify a war? Do you mean to say that the thousands upon thousands of death brought about in that wars is actually worth it? I don't think so, especially with the case of WW II with the deaths of civillians actually outnumbering soldiers. Besides I don't think the advancement of war technologies is a good thing. The only good worth mentioning is the liberation of the Asian states from colonnial rule. And I don't that many deaths were necessary to gain this.


I think you need to clarify yourself because it sounds like that you don't agree that WWII was justified in that it brought freedom and self determination back to Europe, with the exception of the eastern European countries that became soviet satellites, saved the surviving Jewish population from hitler's "final solution," and stopped japan from controlling all the islands in the pacific ocean from Hawaii to Indonesia. And look at the successful reconstruction of japan and western germany. The allies could've decimated germany by turning it into a pastoral, agricultural economy like stalin wanted, but thankfully they thought better of that. Thus, i think there were many more positive outcomes after the war. Yes, the millions who perished are certainly a tragedy, but I honor them and believe their sacrifice was incredibly worthwhile to insure freedom. If you want freedom, you have to fight for it, and if you want to stop madmen, you have to stand up to them because appeasement will fail. History has taught us that.

On a side note, my history professor told us an interesting story about his college roommate who was a Japanese national. His roommate had told my professor that as kamikaze pilots, they were trained to take off and fly, but not to land their planes...
just like the 9/11 hijackers. o_0

Don't worry about tomorrow, don't think about yesterday,
don't live in the future, just make it through today!

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Quote by bblsalisha, it's a nice to see another interesting and intelligent topic
from you!


Why thank you bbls! To be honest I thought no one was gonna post in this thread. ^_^'

Quote: oh man, WWI started with entangling alliances and the assassination of the archduke franz ferdinand, who was the heir to the austro-hungarian throne, by a bosnian serb terrorist. and because of the alliances, austria declared war on serbia, russia declared war on austria to back up the serbs, germany declared war on russia and france because it was allied with austria, and then great britain declared war on germany because it was allied with france!
x_x


Ahh... Yes the circle of hate. It's amazing what a one man can do. Because of all this it caused the first WWI. To be honest I beleave this war was much more horrible and tragic then WWII its self. It seemed as if all what the polititions and high ranking officers wanted to do was for there own wanting. Never even caring for what the out comes where gonna be. For the last couple hours of the war that was the most criticle point of the war. Most of the killing horror happend there. But yet they where saying "if only we had 10 more days." I don't even think anybody would have had enough men or supplies to last "10 more days."

Quote: yup, just because japan knew that time wasn't on their side and they desperately needed raw materials to keep their war machine going. Pres. Roosevelt announced an oil embargo against japan to keep them from accessing oil from Indonesia. And japan was too overconfident in believing if they could destroy the u.s. navy in the pacific, japan would have a free hand in grabbing all the resources they needed, so they stupidly attacked pearl harbor


There you go. That's what I ment when I said Pearl Harbor happend for a trading reason also. We didn't alow Japan to trade anymore with sertain countries and appartnly that got them mad enough to bomb Pearl Harbor. o_0

Quote: I think you need to clarify yourself because it sounds like that you don't agree that WWII was justified in that it brought freedom and self determination back to Europe, with the exception of the eastern European countries that became soviet satellites, saved the surviving Jewish population from hitler's "final solution," and stopped japan from controlling all the islands in the pacific ocean from Hawaii to Indonesia. And look at the successful reconstruction of japan and western germany. The allies could've decimated germany by turning it into a pastoral, agricultural economy like stalin wanted, but thankfully they thought better of that. Thus, i think there were many more positive outcomes after the war. Yes, the millions who perished are certainly a tragedy, but I honor them and believe their sacrifice was incredibly worthwhile to insure freedom. If you want freedom, you have to fight for it, and if you want to stop madmen, you have to stand up to them because appeasement will fail. History has taught us that.


May I add onto this? Not only had all of this to happen but Germany later on had actually applogized for what they had done to the Jews. They addmited to what they did and had done but they had also applogized to the Jewish people. Saying that it was wrong. But the Japanese on the other had said that Nanking never even happend. But yet we have many prof that it did happend. Video footage and pictures that show what the Japanese did and yet they say that it never happend. Sorry if I keep ripping on the Japanese.

Quote: On a side note, my history professor told us an interesting story about his college roommate who was a Japanese national. His roommate had told my professor that as kamikaze pilots, they were trained to take off and fly, but not to land their planes...
just like the 9/11 hijackers. smiley


Hmm... Weird. Huh? Doesn't suprize me at all. The Kamidaze pilots where trained to be the best but when it was nearing to the closing of the war they where getting kids to be the pilots. They wheren't even trained or had the experince as the original pilots. So the suiced plan bombings where almost a waste.

Kinda scary how this relates to the "boy pilots" used in animes. As what they say old habbits die hard. So maybe anime gives us a link to how they may still act today. Maybe there Emperial Japanese ways still lives on it that country and maybe one day we'll see it come back up and try to take over the world again. But if they do it's not like if America or Europe won't go back to there old ways as well. ;)

Akaiken

Akaiken

Ike, Fin Funnel!

Whew... tired of reading all the speeches here, hehehe!

Anyways, as far as I remember, the Nazis and the Fascists started to go down when they can't invade Russia and the Allies started to get strong again. Then, they got started to be defeated slowly and after that, the forces of the Axis begun to weaken. But still, inspite of that, the Japanese remained strong in the Pacific until they made their greatest mistake.

Then you know what happened next.

After the War, United Nations was formed, and now, all the countries are interacting with other for the sake of peace?

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Unit No. - RX-93
Unit Name - Nu Gundam

cardmage

cardmage

After you

Ok... I'm not against all the good things that WW II brought us. However, don't you think that there may have been other ways of doing it? Were the thousands upon thousands of death really necessary? Its true that it wouldn't have happened as quickly, but most of what was mentioned would have happened nevertheless. A point in contention is Hitler could have been stopped much earlier had the European nations stepped in. If you look at Hitler's rise to power, you could see there were so many points he could have been stopped. If the Treaty of Versailles wasn't so unfair, the german people wouldn't have been desperate enough to take up a dictator like Hitler. If the European nations had been stronger, Hitler wouldn't have been able to break the treaty so blatantly. The fact however was that WW II did happen. All those atrocities did happen. In retrospect, things could have been better. However, looking at things from a retrospective point of view is always dangerous when talking about history because you wouldn't really know what would happen if another thing happened. WW II and Hitler's madness was what started the Jewish extermination anyway, so I don't think that really counts as a plus point to the war. And even though there may be all these benefits, do they really justify the countless deaths, the unbelievable ugliness and the sad humiliation in the war? Rebuilding after turmoil always brings out the best in people, even the recent Tsunami etc. It helps nations forge stronger ties and build greater bonds. The good brought about by war is largely like that as well, but people often forget that wars are often a series of many mistakes by man. In that sense, you can say humanity must pay for humanity's mistakes. Life is precious and I don't think much can actually be said to be of equal value to thousands upon thousands of it, especially you could look at it and say that it was one big mistake. No mistake is worth having thousands to die for. And the fact that WW II is a mistake hasn't really been contended, at least not on this thread.

Oh, and Alisha, I agree that the Japanese didn't just humiliate the Chinese, but the Chinese were the ones who got the worst of it. It may be just a geographical coincidence but it is true. And some of the ugliness and contention of WW II can still be seen today. China has never really forgiven Japan for all the harm it has inflicted and political tensions on this issue live on today. And who is to know what those who were killed in the war might be able to bring us? War brings out both the best and the worst in people.

Bbls, I did say that America was kinda justified in not entering the war though I didn't really explain it and perhaps I didn't phrase it well. I understand that America had her own difficulties to consider. Pearl Harbour really was the starting point to America's active participation as it showed the public how it was actually needed.

Life is tranquil, Death is peaceful...
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Its the transition that is troublesome...

darkspiral486

darkspiral486

Carpe Annum

The only good things about WWII were the scientific breakthroughs, the economic bounceback in Europe and the u.s., and the fear of nuclear weapons we recieved from the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Aside from that, it was a tragedy like nothing ever before or since, destroying 12 million lives directly and countless more indirectly. A good example of lives lost indirectly is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict going on right now. If Hitler's campaign hadn't driven the Jews out of Europe, Israel would never have formed. The Eight Days War would never have been fought, the people who died there would still be breathing right now, and there would be no quest to find peace in the Middle East, since there would be no conflict.

BorisGrishenko

BorisGrishenko

send spike

World War II was the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread. Especially the dropping of the Atomic Bombs, which proved that in the right setting WMDs could save more lives than they take.

I am invincible!

Akaiken

Akaiken

Ike, Fin Funnel!

^ he liked WW II even though it's a massive war...

But he has a point on this...

Quote by BorisGrishenkoEspecially the dropping of the Atomic Bombs, which proved that in the right setting WMDs could save more lives than they take.

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Unit No. - RX-93
Unit Name - Nu Gundam

ok, theres just too much for me to read so ill just post what i know and what sucks about it
ok, WW2 is a very interesting era in modern History, i personally find it really interesting to study at school and maybe anywhere else.
WW2 wasnt all bad, becuase of it, many countries got the identity of comradship during hard time.
The only thing i really cant stnad is the Jewish constant referal back to WW2 over their humilitaion, becuase of that, they have expanded (reent days) into south arabia (i think its there). They claim to have always been the victims of terrrorism but they themselves are also terrorists except modern day society refuses to accept it as terrorism becuase of WW2.
As you may or may not know, most religions should teach the acceptance of other religions, the Jewish religion does not, they teach that they're religion is the one true religion.
Anyway enough about that.
A not very highly documented space in WW2 (in the western world) was the totla war that existed between Germany and Russia, of course everyone knows about starlingrad. When the US battled the germand s and took over towns, they had the silent agreement that at least some degree of control voer soldiers would be taken, ie rape and extreme pilaging.
THis was not the case for Russia V Germany. Whe russia took over (cant remember then name) in germany, 5 million german women were rpaed in 3 months. Whole 'villages' were murdered.
This is in my view the most interesting section of WW2.
Uhh, as for what it has brought, ummmm, i dotn really care what its brought... maybe mroe war?
Anyway thats my 2 cents
Cheers


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Akaiken

Akaiken

Ike, Fin Funnel!

^ never heard of such thing... that's interesting...

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Unit No. - RX-93
Unit Name - Nu Gundam

Quote by cardmageIf you look at Hitler's rise to power, you could see there were so many points he could have been stopped. If the Treaty of Versailles wasn't so unfair, the german people wouldn't have been desperate enough to take up a dictator like Hitler. If the European nations had been stronger, Hitler wouldn't have been able to break the treaty so blatantly. The fact however was that WW II did happen. All those atrocities did happen. In retrospect, things could have been better. However, looking at things from a retrospective point of view is always dangerous when talking about history because you wouldn't really know what would happen if another thing happened.

You are right, hindsight is a luxury our predecessors do not have.

If you think the Treaty of Versailles was unfair, look at what the Germans did to Soviet Russia in the Treaty of Best-Litovsk. And if the Treaty of Versailles was unfair, what do you call military occupation, and a 45 year split of the country?

Akaiken

Akaiken

Ike, Fin Funnel!

Hmm... treaties are just mere papers. They'll just ignore it once it's done...

Like what happens on the late WW1. After WW1, a treaty was made but still, WW II broke down...

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Unit No. - RX-93
Unit Name - Nu Gundam

Quote by AkaikenHmm... treaties are just mere papers. They'll just ignore it once it's done...

Like what happens on the late WW1. After WW1, a treaty was made but still, WW II broke down...


Hmmm.... This reminds me of the Geniva Convention. Sorry for the spelling but it was a document made and was suppost to be used as war guid lines. After it being made after WWI it said that you can no longer use chemical gases in a war but acouple of year later in the 1950s we started experimenting with gases for war use. And it also said that you cannot take away a POWs rights. Which was abussed when in WWII and even in the Iraq War that we are still helping in.

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