page 4 of 6 « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next » 126 total items
Umm... sure... whatever.
I forgot to also put, have you ever looked at my arguements carefully? All of them is based on my own knowledge, they're all thought through by logic, which is why I barely quote someone else. IQ (Intelligent Quotient) is in which a person's ability to think logically, which is why, if you ever taken an IQ test, it is all logic based questions. Has nothing to do with what someone knows...
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: Lets start from the basics...I like living,but I could care less if I die.What I said is truthful since I confirm what I said to be true.Now this proves your little theory of everyone being afraid of death wrong.Not everybody is the same
Everyone should be afraid of death it's human nature to be afraid of death. Also, if someone literally took you hostage and threaten you, would you really say you will be willing to die? Though you won't know how you feel until you're actually in a situation like that.merged: 08-14-2007 ~ 11:35pm
Quote: And you say that ,when you die and go to hell phrase,has no support,technically it does,but its just unseen until it happens to you.
And this is exactly why it has no support.
Quote: Its like saying a giant pool of lava is going to swallow the entire world in the future,but until it happens,nobody knows or cares about it.
Is it going to happen, we don't know, which is exactly the problem...
Quote: The unseen seems to be a problem for you,but its ok because the bible tells me about people like you who cant believe in things they do not see.
Yeah, so why do you bother telling the vast majority of atheists?
Quote: And I cant trust you on giving your IQ considering the knowledge you try to spill out to the public of minitokyo.
Well, you did just insult me and said I have no common sense, so that's why, can't you look at what you post?
Quote: To end things,You cant assume that Im not smart in the category of the universe because for all we know,the universe could be purely a religious concept in which I understand and you dont.
Oh yeah, and saying that observing space with a telescope is a religious concept. Saying people walking on the moon is a religious concept? Oh, saying satellites in which allows GPS and GSMA products is of religious concept...
If was being held hostage,I would fight back to see if I can solve the problem while im living,and if not,then im glad to at least trying to change my fate and also for me going to a better place than earth.I wouldnt fight for the sake of being afraid of death,but its what i think is right to do in the situation and the way that could save those lives of people who actually are afraid of death.and when saying that the universe could have a religious concept,im not talking about the things we do to the universe,im talking about the untouched universe that doesnt have man made satellites or people looking at it with a telescope or any of the sort.
Quote: If was being held hostage,I would fight back to see if I can solve the problem while im living,and if not,then im glad to at least trying to change my fate and also for me going to a better place than earth.
I don't think you know the situation of a hostage, if you're a hostage, you're a gun point, or knife,
depending on the person who takes you hostage. Another thing I said, you won't know until you are in that
position.
Quote: I wouldnt fight for the sake of being afraid of death,but its what i think is right to do in the situation and the way that could save those lives of people who actually are afraid of death.
Wow, you're not human... you have no instincts? People fight for survival, it's instincts, if you don't
have instincts, something is wrong with you.
Quote: .and when saying that the universe could have a religious concept,im not talking about the things we do to the universe,im talking about the untouched universe that doesnt have man made satellites or people looking at it with a telescope or any of the sort.
Yet again, just to point out, we are part of the universe, and another thing I must ask, do you believe in aliens? If
the universe is a religious concept, we would be flying away and be practically a flying asteroid...
To fight is to survive and to survive is to fight.
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by kingray100but the bible doesnt have any verse that say kill people in any sense.Just because the bible has stories of death and murders in it,doesnt mean the message is to kill people who dont believe in God,especially if you saw the verse of not killing other people.
False.
Exodus 31:14-15 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
The ten commandments are found in Exodus 20:2-17 as well as Deuteronomy 5:6-21. In Exodus the commands are "Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy. For six days you shall labour and do all your work."
Please note the similarity between the top and bottom verses I have presented. Exodus 31 comes after the commandment "thou shalt not kill" so if you have read the bible in order then you would read it afterwards.
Notice in Exodus 20 God (through Moses) gives you the ten commandments one of which is not to kill AND to honor the sabbath. Next in Exodus 31 God (through Moses once more) tells you to kill anyone who defiles the Sabbath.
Do you still deny that God is indeed telling you to kill people?
How is it possible that God's message is "Don't kill people who work on the Sabbath." when it says so right there "whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death"
Next piece of evidence.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."
Here God is TELLING you to kill people who are trying to convert you to other Gods. This is not a story about death and murder this is a command from God to kill. Again this command to kill comes after Deuteronomy 5:6-21 which is basically a rehash of the ten commandments. Even if God tells you to not kill there he tells you later that it is ok to kill heathens.
Quote by kingray100Moses does not say you need to kill or that you should.Same with God.If thats what you got,then you have the mind of a very dangerous person.
God commands Moses in Exodus 31 (which I mentioned earlier in this post) to tell the people to kill anyone who defiles Sabbath. It is in the same chapter which I keep showing you where God tells you to kill people.
"31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."
And if you didn't notice the line RIGHT AFTER says "31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
Again I repeat that in this very chapter God is telling Moses to tell everyone to kill people who work on the Sabbath. The message is pretty plain to see.
Can you still deny that God does not tell Moses that it is okay to kill people?
Am I dangerous? Well for one I do not believe that any god is telling me to kill people be they heathen or otherwise.
Quote by kingray100.and christians are not perfect,and if God told someone to kill someone,then its part of his mysterious will and plans that we do not know of.Who know,those heathens might have summoned the devil to revolt or something,but God might have stopped that.
If someone kills 100 people and then says that God told him to do it would you believe him? Would you believe that he was told by God to kill your entire family? Would you believe that the voices he hears in his head is of divine nature rather than insanity? This leads to dangerous territory. Loathe as I am to do it I must present the following quote.
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Quote by kingray100There is more reason to believe that a hell exists then that it doesnt.It better to assume the worst case scenario in some cases,is it not?
True Worst Case Scenario: There is no God but there is a Devil. There is no Heaven but there is a Hell. We all go to Hell no matter what.
Quote by kingray100First,God would never tell you to kill your parents just to show loyalty
No but he might ask you to kill your son like he asked Abraham.
"Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, 'Abraham!' And he said, 'Here I am.' 2 And He said, 'Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you,' (Gen. 22:1-2)"
Sure we all know God didn't really let Abraham kill his son but for all Abraham knew God really did want him to kill his only son. If God asks you to kill your parents would you? Maybe this time he really will let your parents die otherwise no one could be truly tested if there were no risk involved.
Quote by kingray100I dont,and many other christians dont either.even suicide bombers dont fear death.
I agree with you when you say that some people don't fear death. Of course not! Why be afraid of death when both believe that they're going to go to heaven anyway for following God's will? That's why suicide bombers as well as any other religious soldiers make the best fighters. They can keep fighting till the end without regards for their own life because they believe they will go to heaven as a reward for their faith. Death becomes something trivial.
Quote by kingray100because for all we know,the universe could be purely a religious concept in which I understand and you dont.
True. For all we know the universe IS religious in nature. Or for all we know the universe is controlled by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. For all we know the universe is composed of invisible leprechauns. All are impossible to prove or disprove. That does not necessarily mean one is more likely than the explanation "The universe is physical and material."
That's all for now.
Quote: True Worst Case Scenario: There is no God but there is a Devil. There is no Heaven but there is a Hell. We all go to Hell no matter what.
Wrong!
True Worst Case Scenario: Reborn into this screwed up place called earth. :P
Thank you for putting some sense into him, I'm not "well versed" in the bible so I can't post that much about it.
Quote: That's why suicide bombers as well as any other religious soldiers make the best fighters. They can keep fighting till the end without regards for their own life because they believe they will go to heaven as a reward for their faith. Death becomes something trivial.
Which is exactly why they're scary...
Umm... can we go back on topic...?
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by DarkRoseofHellUmm... can we go back on topic...?
It's been so long I can't even remember what the heck we were suppose to talk about.
Quote by PleaseRecycle
Quote by kingray100but the bible doesnt have any verse that say kill people in any sense.Just because the bible has stories of death and murders in it,doesnt mean the message is to kill people who dont believe in God,especially if you saw the verse of not killing other people.
False.
Exodus 31:14-15 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
The ten commandments are found in Exodus 20:2-17 as well as Deuteronomy 5:6-21. In Exodus the commands are "Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it holy. For six days you shall labour and do all your work."
Please note the similarity between the top and bottom verses I have presented. Exodus 31 comes after the commandment "thou shalt not kill" so if you have read the bible in order then you would read it afterwards.
Notice in Exodus 20 God (through Moses) gives you the ten commandments one of which is not to kill AND to honor the sabbath. Next in Exodus 31 God (through Moses once more) tells you to kill anyone who defiles the Sabbath.
Do you still deny that God is indeed telling you to kill people?
How is it possible that God's message is "Don't kill people who work on the Sabbath." when it says so right there "whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death"
Next piece of evidence.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."
Here God is TELLING you to kill people who are trying to convert you to other Gods. This is not a story about death and murder this is a command from God to kill. Again this command to kill comes after Deuteronomy 5:6-21 which is basically a rehash of the ten commandments. Even if God tells you to not kill there he tells you later that it is ok to kill heathens.
Quote by kingray100Moses does not say you need to kill or that you should.Same with God.If thats what you got,then you have the mind of a very dangerous person.
God commands Moses in Exodus 31 (which I mentioned earlier in this post) to tell the people to kill anyone who defiles Sabbath. It is in the same chapter which I keep showing you where God tells you to kill people.
"31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."
And if you didn't notice the line RIGHT AFTER says "31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
Again I repeat that in this very chapter God is telling Moses to tell everyone to kill people who work on the Sabbath. The message is pretty plain to see.
Can you still deny that God does not tell Moses that it is okay to kill people?
Am I dangerous? Well for one I do not believe that any god is telling me to kill people be they heathen or otherwise.
Quote by kingray100.and christians are not perfect,and if God told someone to kill someone,then its part of his mysterious will and plans that we do not know of.Who know,those heathens might have summoned the devil to revolt or something,but God might have stopped that.
If someone kills 100 people and then says that God told him to do it would you believe him? Would you believe that he was told by God to kill your entire family? Would you believe that the voices he hears in his head is of divine nature rather than insanity? This leads to dangerous territory. Loathe as I am to do it I must present the following quote.
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Quote by kingray100There is more reason to believe that a hell exists then that it doesnt.It better to assume the worst case scenario in some cases,is it not?
True Worst Case Scenario: There is no God but there is a Devil. There is no Heaven but there is a Hell. We all go to Hell no matter what.
Quote by kingray100First,God would never tell you to kill your parents just to show loyalty
No but he might ask you to kill your son like he asked Abraham.
"Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, 'Abraham!' And he said, 'Here I am.' 2 And He said, 'Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you,' (Gen. 22:1-2)"
Sure we all know God didn't really let Abraham kill his son but for all Abraham knew God really did want him to kill his only son. If God asks you to kill your parents would you? Maybe this time he really will let your parents die otherwise no one could be truly tested if there were no risk involved.
Quote by kingray100I dont,and many other christians dont either.even suicide bombers dont fear death.
I agree with you when you say that some people don't fear death. Of course not! Why be afraid of death when both believe that they're going to go to heaven anyway for following God's will? That's why suicide bombers as well as any other religious soldiers make the best fighters. They can keep fighting till the end without regards for their own life because they believe they will go to heaven as a reward for their faith. Death becomes something trivial.
Quote by kingray100because for all we know,the universe could be purely a religious concept in which I understand and you dont.
True. For all we know the universe IS religious in nature. Or for all we know the universe is controlled by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. For all we know the universe is composed of invisible leprechauns. All are impossible to prove or disprove. That does not necessarily mean one is more likely than the explanation "The universe is physical and material."
That's all for now.
i thought you would do this....God was speaking to the disciples and explaining the cost of discipleship.Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.I want to tell you that its hard for the bible to go against itself considering its never been done before and its not going to start now.and some people who dont have a religion also dont fear death just from their insanity or beliefs.I cant answer all of your questions since im running late on my time spent on this site limit.so....maybe another time
merged: 08-16-2007 ~ 12:42am
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: If was being held hostage,I would fight back to see if I can solve the problem while im living,and if not,then im glad to at least trying to change my fate and also for me going to a better place than earth.
I don't think you know the situation of a hostage, if you're a hostage, you're a gun point, or knife, depending on the person who takes you hostage. Another thing I said, you won't know until you are in that position.
Quote: I wouldnt fight for the sake of being afraid of death,but its what i think is right to do in the situation and the way that could save those lives of people who actually are afraid of death.
Wow, you're not human... you have no instincts? People fight for survival, it's instincts, if you don't have instincts, something is wrong with you.
Quote: .and when saying that the universe could have a religious concept,im not talking about the things we do to the universe,im talking about the untouched universe that doesnt have man made satellites or people looking at it with a telescope or any of the sort.
Yet again, just to point out, we are part of the universe, and another thing I must ask, do you believe in aliens? If the universe is a religious concept, we would be flying away and be practically a flying asteroid...
To fight is to survive and to survive is to fight.
well i guess im not human,based on your assumption then.I must not have instincts the same as yours.I prefer myself to die rather than other people to die because I care for the people on this world,no matter how selfish or unbelieving they are.Maybe the sacrifice I would make for them might influence others to see the truth.And we wouldnt be an asteroid flying away if the universe was a religious concept.It would be the same,only with different truths for you and all other atheists.
Quote: i thought you would do this....God was speaking to the disciples and explaining the cost of discipleship.Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.I want to tell you that its hard for the bible to go against itself considering its never been done before and its not going to start now.and some people who dont have a religion also dont fear death just from their insanity or beliefs.I cant answer all of your questions since im running late on my time spent on this site limit.so....maybe another time
Oh sure, screw up the english language to fit your needs... and how do you know if it hasn't been done?
Quote: well i guess im not human,based on your assumption then.I must not have instincts the same as yours.I prefer myself to die rather than other people to die because I care for the people on this world,no matter how selfish or unbelieving they are.Maybe the sacrifice I would make for them might influence others to see the truth.And we wouldnt be an asteroid flying away if the universe was a religious concept.It would be the same,only with different truths for you and all other atheists.
Oh geez, now you're calling us selfish, please, tell me what do you know of me in terms of
"selfishness"... as I said, if you were in a "hostage" situation, literally, your life is already on
the line, them killing you won't do anything much, and if they didn't kill you, it wouldn't do much in
terms of death... In fact, if they did kill you, the chances are your family will have a seek for vengeance and will end
up killing the people whom took you hostage...
Quote: And we wouldnt be an asteroid flying away if the universe was a religious concept.It would be the same,only with different truths for you and all other atheists.
You really do know how to express your hate of a certain type of people, it's easily shown that you're just
leading to a life of an extremist...
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: i thought you would do this....God was speaking to the disciples and explaining the cost of discipleship.Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.I want to tell you that its hard for the bible to go against itself considering its never been done before and its not going to start now.and some people who dont have a religion also dont fear death just from their insanity or beliefs.I cant answer all of your questions since im running late on my time spent on this site limit.so....maybe another time
Oh sure, screw up the english language to fit your needs... and how do you know if it hasn't been done?
Quote: well i guess im not human,based on your assumption then.I must not have instincts the same as yours.I prefer myself to die rather than other people to die because I care for the people on this world,no matter how selfish or unbelieving they are.Maybe the sacrifice I would make for them might influence others to see the truth.And we wouldnt be an asteroid flying away if the universe was a religious concept.It would be the same,only with different truths for you and all other atheists.
Oh geez, now you're calling us selfish, please, tell me what do you know of me in terms of "selfishness"... as I said, if you were in a "hostage" situation, literally, your life is already on the line, them killing you won't do anything much, and if they didn't kill you, it wouldn't do much in terms of death... In fact, if they did kill you, the chances are your family will have a seek for vengeance and will end up killing the people whom took you hostage...
Quote: And we wouldnt be an asteroid flying away if the universe was a religious concept.It would be the same,only with different truths for you and all other atheists.
You really do know how to express your hate of a certain type of people, it's easily shown that you're just leading to a life of an extremist...
Im not sure how i screwed up the english language,so please
explain.and what hasnt been done?i dont understand your question.
and i didnt call you selfish,i was trying to say i would risk my life for everyone,INCLUDING THE SELFISH.and my family
isnt the of family to seek revenge....they are peaceful and understandable people.If they knew me well enough,they would
know that the event that has occurred was ok to me and that justice will take place in the future.and im not expressing
hate in that last part of the post.since you consider yourself an atheist,i thought i could include you as well and say
that everyone with your point of view would have a different point of view from me basically.no hate
involved,ma'am.
Quote by kingray100Im not sure how i screwed up the english language,so please explain.and what hasnt been done?i dont understand your question.
Quote by kingray100Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.
Umm... there we go.
Quote: and i didnt call you selfish,i was trying to say i would risk my life for everyone,INCLUDING THE SELFISH.and my family isnt the of family to seek revenge....they are peaceful and understandable people.
I don't know how many times, but you won't know a situation till it actually happens, and I was giving you a
hostage situation, not something to risk your life for everyone...
Quote: If they knew me well enough,they would know that the event that has occurred was ok to me and that justice will take place in the future.
They may know you well, but do they know the people who killed you well?
Quote: since you consider yourself an atheist,i thought i could include you as well and say that everyone with your point of view would have a different point of view from me basically.no hate involved,ma'am.
Okay, that's good.
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by kingray100i thought you would do this....God was speaking to the disciples and explaining the cost of discipleship.
Actually no...I think you're mistaking me for alexjohn(again?). He was the one who posted a verse about Jesus and the disciples that mishash had commented on. The verses I chose have nothing to do with being a disciple. In fact, Jesus hasn't even shown up yet. I believe Moses died long before Jesus even showed up. The disciples don't show up until Jesus begins his teachings so when God tells Moses these things he is definitely NOT talking about being a disciple. In fact it says so right there in the verses I mentioned.
"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel"
Did you even read my post in full? The children of Israel can in no way be interpreted as "the disciples." It does not even say anything about the cost of discipleship. It is a command from God to Moses that the people should kill heathens and people who work on the Sabbath. Even if Moses and Jesus coexisted it does not erase the fact that God said "the children of Israel" that is to say the people with whom he shares the covenant with.
Quote by kingray100Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.
If the the phrases "stoning or killing" actually should mean "shun or turn your back on" why do you suppose they are translated and written in the Bible as "whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death" or "And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." Why weren't they translated the "right way" as you suggested. Maybe because that is truly what the Bible SAYS. The Bible does say you should shun a person who works on the Sabbath. It says "that soul shall be cut off from among his people." That my friend can be interpreted as "shunning him." However, it says right after that "he shall surely be put to death."
To suggest that these words "stoning" and "killing" are really other words is in my opinion a bit foolish. It seems to me that you are suggesting that you are a better translator than the hundreds of Hebrew scholars that translated the Bible. Not to mention the hundreds of other scholars that have revised the new translations of the Bible such as King James or International. They have not translated it as "shunning" because to do so would be a grievous lie. If the text says "kill" then it means "kill." If it says "stone to death" it says "stone to death."
There is no ambiguity there. I could argue with you all day about the Hebrew words for "death" and "kill." Do you really want me to because I can.
There really isn't any ambiguity in this case that you can explain away as "interpretation." This is straight command to Moses from God himself. You cannot use the common apologist rationale, "God actually meant something else so all that death and murder is actually compassion and kindness."
Besides God is perfect. You'd think that a "perfect" God would be able to create or at least inspire a piece of literary work that could transcend time and space, that could be applicable for all people in all ages, that could be the least bit plausible. If God really did create (or inspire) the Bible you'd think that he would have a little foresight and not include a bunch of ambiguous nonsensical bull honky. A perfect God would be able to create a work so powerful and great that it would at the least not contradict itself or be misinterpreted. Better yet he should be able to make a work that would at the least prove that he exists beyond any doubt.
Quote by kingray100I want to tell you that its hard for the bible to go against itself considering its never been done before and its not going to start now.and some people who dont have a religion also dont fear death just from their insanity or beliefs.
Your statement that the Bible has not gone against itself is false. I have shown right here that God says it's ok to kill heathens despite the "thou shalt not kill" commandment. There is further evidence.
I have more to say but I must leave it for now.
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote by kingray100Im not sure how i screwed up the english language,so please explain.and what hasnt been done?i dont understand your question.
Quote by kingray100Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.
Umm... there we go.
Quote: and i didnt call you selfish,i was trying to say i would risk my life for everyone,INCLUDING THE SELFISH.and my family isnt the of family to seek revenge....they are peaceful and understandable people.
I don't know how many times, but you won't know a situation till it actually happens, and I was giving you a hostage situation, not something to risk your life for everyone...
Quote: If they knew me well enough,they would know that the event that has occurred was ok to me and that justice will take place in the future.
They may know you well, but do they know the people who killed you well?
Quote: since you consider yourself an atheist,i thought i could include you as well and say that everyone with your point of view would have a different point of view from me basically.no hate involved,ma'am.
Okay, that's good.
being a hostage is something to risk your life on.little do people know that they always have a chance of catching the person who is holding the hostage off guard.even if the chances are low,by slowing or distracting the person,it could mean lives are saves,maybe my own in the situation.and of course they dont know the person who would have killed me in the situation.it doesnt make a difference though.It doesnt matter if it was the taliban or some new york gangster,they would understand.and finally,you understand one of my points.thank goodness.now we are getting somewhere.
merged: 08-16-2007 ~ 08:46pm
Quote by PleaseRecycle
Quote by kingray100i thought you would do this....God was speaking to the disciples and explaining the cost of discipleship.
Actually no...I think you're mistaking me for alexjohn(again?). He was the one who posted a verse about Jesus and the disciples that mishash had commented on. The verses I chose have nothing to do with being a disciple. In fact, Jesus hasn't even shown up yet. I believe Moses died long before Jesus even showed up. The disciples don't show up until Jesus begins his teachings so when God tells Moses these things he is definitely NOT talking about being a disciple. In fact it says so right there in the verses I mentioned.
"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel"
Did you even read my post in full? The children of Israel can in no way be interpreted as "the disciples." It does not even say anything about the cost of discipleship. It is a command from God to Moses that the people should kill heathens and people who work on the Sabbath. Even if Moses and Jesus coexisted it does not erase the fact that God said "the children of Israel" that is to say the people with whom he shares the covenant with.
Quote by kingray100Second,you dont know if the phrases such as stoning or killing ect. could be other words meaning to shun or turn your back upon.
If the the phrases "stoning or killing" actually should mean "shun or turn your back on" why do you suppose they are translated and written in the Bible as "whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death" or "And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." Why weren't they translated the "right way" as you suggested. Maybe because that is truly what the Bible SAYS. The Bible does say you should shun a person who works on the Sabbath. It says "that soul shall be cut off from among his people." That my friend can be interpreted as "shunning him." However, it says right after that "he shall surely be put to death."
To suggest that these words "stoning" and "killing" are really other words is in my opinion a bit foolish. It seems to me that you are suggesting that you are a better translator than the hundreds of Hebrew scholars that translated the Bible. Not to mention the hundreds of other scholars that have revised the new translations of the Bible such as King James or International. They have not translated it as "shunning" because to do so would be a grievous lie. If the text says "kill" then it means "kill." If it says "stone to death" it says "stone to death."
There is no ambiguity there. I could argue with you all day about the Hebrew words for "death" and "kill." Do you really want me to because I can.
There really isn't any ambiguity in this case that you can explain away as "interpretation." This is straight command to Moses from God himself. You cannot use the common apologist rationale, "God actually meant something else so all that death and murder is actually compassion and kindness."
Besides God is perfect. You'd think that a "perfect" God would be able to create or at least inspire a piece of literary work that could transcend time and space, that could be applicable for all people in all ages, that could be the least bit plausible. If God really did create (or inspire) the Bible you'd think that he would have a little foresight and not include a bunch of ambiguous nonsensical bull honky. A perfect God would be able to create a work so powerful and great that it would at the least not contradict itself or be misinterpreted. Better yet he should be able to make a work that would at the least prove that he exists beyond any doubt.
Quote by kingray100I want to tell you that its hard for the bible to go against itself considering its never been done before and its not going to start now.and some people who dont have a religion also dont fear death just from their insanity or beliefs.
Your statement that the Bible has not gone against itself is false. I have shown right here that God says it's ok to kill heathens despite the "thou shalt not kill" commandment. There is further evidence.
I have more to say but I must leave it for now.
could you give me the place where you found this verse again?im going to research this quote.Also,before i do that,have you ever heard of God's Plans?we dont know them and we will never know or understand them.Im gonna say that this is part of his unknown plan of humanity.Lets say that God didnt tell these people to kill the whoever....maybe they would have done something bad such as summon the devil,convince the world of sinful and cruel acts,or maybe destroy the christian religion and possibility completely.There is always a good reason for god's works.But i shall look into this.
errrmmmm....
this question is very sensitive, i mean not every1 likes to discuss this
anyway i dont agree with another prson forcing u to convert, religion should be followed by ur own free will
back in my country the wife must follow the husband's religion, same with the kids must follow the father's religion(for the muslims especially)
Quote by Joancagallierrrmmmm....
this question is very sensitive, i mean not every1 likes to discuss thisanyway i dont agree with another prson forcing u to convert, religion should be followed by ur own free will
back in my country the wife must follow the husband's religion, same with the kids must follow the father's religion(for the muslims especially)
nobody here likes the thought of someone being forced to convert,so its ok to point it out.
Quote: being a hostage is something to risk your life on.little do people know that they always have a chance of catching the person who is holding the hostage off guard.even if the chances are low,by slowing or distracting the person,it could mean lives are saves,maybe my own in the situation.and of course they dont know the person who would have killed me in the situation.it doesnt make a difference though.It doesnt matter if it was the taliban or some new york gangster,they would understand.and finally,you understand one of my points.thank goodness.now we are getting somewhere.
Wow... I said if you were a hostage, not you saving a hostage... geez...
Quote: errrmmmm....
this question is very sensitive, i mean not every1 likes to discuss thisanyway i dont agree with another prson forcing u to convert, religion should be followed by ur own free will
back in my country the wife must follow the husband's religion, same with the kids must follow the father's religion(for the muslims especially)
Thank you for being on topic. XD
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: being a hostage is something to risk your life on.little do people know that they always have a chance of catching the person who is holding the hostage off guard.even if the chances are low,by slowing or distracting the person,it could mean lives are saves,maybe my own in the situation.and of course they dont know the person who would have killed me in the situation.it doesnt make a difference though.It doesnt matter if it was the taliban or some new york gangster,they would understand.and finally,you understand one of my points.thank goodness.now we are getting somewhere.
Wow... I said if you were a hostage, not you saving a hostage... geez...
Quote: errrmmmm....
this question is very sensitive, i mean not every1 likes to discuss thisanyway i dont agree with another prson forcing u to convert, religion should be followed by ur own free will
back in my country the wife must follow the husband's religion, same with the kids must follow the father's religion(for the muslims especially)
Thank you for being on topic. XD
you dont understand,by being a hostage and by distracting the person who is holding me and other people,lives could be saved.If the person holding everyone hostage decided to eliminate the hostages,I would try to disarm him and tell the others to escape,minimizing the lives being taken by the "bad guy."either way,there is always a choice that can be a good choice.
Quote: you dont understand,by being a hostage and by distracting the person who is holding me and other people,lives could be saved.
I understand that if you're just one hostage there's no need to distract... cause the mainly they're only
concentration is you... I said "hostage" <=== not plural.
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Either way, dont be unrealistic Kingray. I'm sure you see many action films which have planted such ideas that being a heroe and saving people in a hostage situation would be easy. I'm sure that they mearly shoot you, making your sacrafice pointless. The reason many people dont leave hostage situations so easily like you describe is, because there wasnt really anything they could do without losing lives. I am going to agree with DarkRoseofHell that you do not really know what happens in such situations or how they feel, so do not act as though you know what someone has gone through or judge them accordingly. You act as though it would be so easy to take advantage of such a situation, I think people who have actually gone through such a thing would be rather insulted by what you have to say. That, or think your rather ignorant and foolish. I, myself have never gone through such a situation, but I am not about to judge what it would be like or the people that have gone through it, as by saying its so easy your are calling people who have gone through such an event, cowards. You act as though it would be simple to disarm try and disarm a thief of their gun. I'm sure if you tried what you just discribed in real life, you would have been shot and killed before you even got your hands on the person. Do not act like a heroe like you see one tv, to take lessons from action films is foolish.
Quote by marfish14Either way, dont be unrealistic Kingray. I'm sure you see many action films which have planted such ideas that being a heroe and saving people in a hostage situation would be easy. I'm sure that they mearly shoot you, making your sacrafice pointless. The reason many people dont leave hostage situations so easily like you describe is, because there wasnt really anything they could do without losing lives. I am going to agree with DarkRoseofHell that you do not really know what happens in such situations or how they feel, so do not act as though you know what someone has gone through or judge them accordingly. You act as though it would be so easy to take advantage of such a situation, I think people who have actually gone through such a thing would be rather insulted by what you have to say. That, or think your rather ignorant and foolish. I, myself have never gone through such a situation, but I am not about to judge what it would be like or the people that have gone through it, as by saying its so easy your are calling people who have gone through such an event, cowards. You act as though it would be simple to disarm try and disarm a thief of their gun. I'm sure if you tried what you just discribed in real life, you would have been shot and killed before you even got your hands on the person. Do not act like a heroe like you see one tv, to take lessons from action films is foolish.
im sorry but you have no right criticising the way i would handle things in a situation.I dont do it because of praise,or the fact of being a hero.I act on the way i think is right and if indeed so i was a hostage,i would fight and disarm the person at all costs.It wouldnt matter to me if I died,because I know where im going afterwards.You may not do the same things i would do in the situation but it doesnt mean that we all think in the same way like robots.And no,it isnt simple to disarm a person but its possible,and if theres a chance,then im going to do it and risk my own life.I dont act by watching anything on tv,i act on what i think is right and what the bible thinks is right.In this case,me and the bible would probably agree on this statement.
merged: 08-17-2007 ~ 10:07am
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: you dont understand,by being a hostage and by distracting the person who is holding me and other people,lives could be saved.
I understand that if you're just one hostage there's no need to distract... cause the mainly they're only concentration is you... I said "hostage" <=== not plural.
either way,my goal would be to disarm the person in any case.
Quote: either way,my goal would be to disarm the person in any case.
As marfish14 stated and I have, you won't know until you are actually in the situation... geez...
Quote: im sorry but you have no right criticising the way i would handle things in a situation.I dont do it because of praise,or the fact of being a hero.I act on the way i think is right and if indeed so i was a hostage,i would fight and disarm the person at all costs.It wouldnt matter to me if I died,because I know where im going afterwards.You may not do the same things i would do in the situation but it doesnt mean that we all think in the same way like robots.And no,it isnt simple to disarm a person but its possible,and if theres a chance,then im going to do it and risk my own life.I dont act by watching anything on tv,i act on what i think is right and what the bible thinks is right.In this case,me and the bible would probably agree on this statement.
Same statement as above... you won't know until you're in the actual situation... There are a lot of things in
which you won't understand until you've actually experienced it. A lot of people say, "walk a mile in
their shoes" well, not a lot, but you get the point, the only problem is, you can't inhibit emotions into
that. "Imagine yourself in their place" you can imagine it, but you can't actually play it out like in
real life.
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
Quote by kingray100could you give me the place where you found this verse again?im going to research this quote.Also,before i do that,have you ever heard of God's Plans?we dont know them and we will never know or understand them.Im gonna say that this is part of his unknown plan of humanity.Lets say that God didnt tell these people to kill the whoever....maybe they would have done something bad such as summon the devil,convince the world of sinful and cruel acts,or maybe destroy the christian religion and possibility completely.There is always a good reason for god's works.But i shall look into this.
The two sections of verse I have used are Exodus 31:14-15 and Deuteronomy 13:6-10 but I have made references to the whole chapters not just the verses I quoted. I have heard quite a number of explanations for the reason why God made it such a serious punishment for working on the Sabbath. One was, "God had to scare people into holding the Sabbath holy." Also I've heard, "Sabbath is not once a week but comes irregularly so it's ok." I have yet to find a really satisfying explanation. To add onto your workload I add the following verses.
Numbers 15:32-36
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."
Please look that up as well because I haven't done the research fully on it yet so I'd like some clarification.
As you say we do not know God's plan but first I must point out to you that heathens probably wouldn't even believe in the Christian devil so there is no point in them summoning the Devil. They have their own deities and devils. You might argue that they are following a "false" god that is actually the Devil in disguise. That would make sense in a way. After all if their god is actually the devil that would lead them to "sin and cruel acts."
However, I must tell you that Hinduism is far older than both Christianity and Judaism. How can you be certain that you are not following the devil of the Hindu religion? You sort of have to make a judgment call on whose religion is "right" and whose is "wrong." How would you know that you are not actually following the Devil? Maybe the Devil is so smart that he made the Bible and led people to believe that's what God wants us to do. If he can lead us to sin then surely he can trick people into believing anything.
That's not the point I should be making though. Whether or not the heathens are bad we see in Numbers 15:32-36 of how a man picking up sticks on Sabbath day was stoned to death. That doesn't sound very pleasant. I see in no possible scenario that this man is evil.
It's just not there.
Furthermore, let us presume for a moment that these heathens were indeed summoning the devil. Why didn't God make a mention of it in the verse? Why would God make the verse ambiguous like that by not mentioning they were summoning evil or doing bad things (other than, you know, believing in a different god)? It would take more assumptions to say that the heathens were summoning the devil so that's why God wanted them dead rather than saying God wanted them dead simply because they were heathens. By adding more assumptions like that it would make it harder and harder to believe. For instance, what if I added the assumption that the heathens were trying to summon the devil by dancing naked in a sheep flock. It's not in the Bible but it COULD have happen that way. However, by making the assumption that they danced naked it makes my claim harder to support because there is no evidence that that's what they did.
That's all for now. Getting busy around here. More to come.
Quote by DarkRoseofHell
Quote: either way,my goal would be to disarm the person in any case.
As marfish14 stated and I have, you won't know until you are actually in the situation... geez...
Quote: im sorry but you have no right criticising the way i would handle things in a situation.I dont do it because of praise,or the fact of being a hero.I act on the way i think is right and if indeed so i was a hostage,i would fight and disarm the person at all costs.It wouldnt matter to me if I died,because I know where im going afterwards.You may not do the same things i would do in the situation but it doesnt mean that we all think in the same way like robots.And no,it isnt simple to disarm a person but its possible,and if theres a chance,then im going to do it and risk my own life.I dont act by watching anything on tv,i act on what i think is right and what the bible thinks is right.In this case,me and the bible would probably agree on this statement.
Same statement as above... you won't know until you're in the actual situation... There are a lot of things in which you won't understand until you've actually experienced it. A lot of people say, "walk a mile in their shoes" well, not a lot, but you get the point, the only problem is, you can't inhibit emotions into that. "Imagine yourself in their place" you can imagine it, but you can't actually play it out like in real life.
There is also something called planning or preparing.I thought about the many outcomes of the one situation and I would still do what I said.You dont have to experience it to do what you have planned out weeks and even years before.The point is,once you set something as a positive goal,its hard not to follow through on it(for me,anyway).So again,if i was in the situation mentioned by you,I would do the things I told you I would do without regret.
merged: 08-17-2007 ~ 10:54pm
Quote by PleaseRecycle
Quote by kingray100could you give me the place where you found this verse again?im going to research this quote.Also,before i do that,have you ever heard of God's Plans?we dont know them and we will never know or understand them.Im gonna say that this is part of his unknown plan of humanity.Lets say that God didnt tell these people to kill the whoever....maybe they would have done something bad such as summon the devil,convince the world of sinful and cruel acts,or maybe destroy the christian religion and possibility completely.There is always a good reason for god's works.But i shall look into this.
The two sections of verse I have used are Exodus 31:14-15 and Deuteronomy 13:6-10 but I have made references to the whole chapters not just the verses I quoted. I have heard quite a number of explanations for the reason why God made it such a serious punishment for working on the Sabbath. One was, "God had to scare people into holding the Sabbath holy." Also I've heard, "Sabbath is not once a week but comes irregularly so it's ok." I have yet to find a really satisfying explanation. To add onto your workload I add the following verses.
Numbers 15:32-36
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses."
Please look that up as well because I haven't done the research fully on it yet so I'd like some clarification.
As you say we do not know God's plan but first I must point out to you that heathens probably wouldn't even believe in the Christian devil so there is no point in them summoning the Devil. They have their own deities and devils. You might argue that they are following a "false" god that is actually the Devil in disguise. That would make sense in a way. After all if their god is actually the devil that would lead them to "sin and cruel acts."
However, I must tell you that Hinduism is far older than both Christianity and Judaism. How can you be certain that you are not following the devil of the Hindu religion? You sort of have to make a judgment call on whose religion is "right" and whose is "wrong." How would you know that you are not actually following the Devil? Maybe the Devil is so smart that he made the Bible and led people to believe that's what God wants us to do. If he can lead us to sin then surely he can trick people into believing anything.
That's not the point I should be making though. Whether or not the heathens are bad we see in Numbers 15:32-36 of how a man picking up sticks on Sabbath day was stoned to death. That doesn't sound very pleasant. I see in no possible scenario that this man is evil.
It's just not there.
Furthermore, let us presume for a moment that these heathens were indeed summoning the devil. Why didn't God make a mention of it in the verse? Why would God make the verse ambiguous like that by not mentioning they were summoning evil or doing bad things (other than, you know, believing in a different god)? It would take more assumptions to say that the heathens were summoning the devil so that's why God wanted them dead rather than saying God wanted them dead simply because they were heathens. By adding more assumptions like that it would make it harder and harder to believe. For instance, what if I added the assumption that the heathens were trying to summon the devil by dancing naked in a sheep flock. It's not in the Bible but it COULD have happen that way. However, by making the assumption that they danced naked it makes my claim harder to support because there is no evidence that that's what they did.
That's all for now. Getting busy around here. More to come.
Ok.I will investigate these verses
and consult with professionals.
Also,realize that if indeed the heathens were going to summon the devil or anything that might severely injure the word
of God,and the people of the word found out,there would be chaos everywhere.If God didnt want to mention the outcome of
what would have happened if he didnt give the command,its probably for the better.Secondly,if there are religions that
are older than christianity,realize how the bible's old testament says that there were plenty of fake God's
before his word was even heard.People praised statues and important people in those days,making the older religions in a
way,look bad.Its not necessarily how old a religion is, when classifying its reliability.
and lastly,the devil wouldnt tell people to act kind and loving towards everyone and lead everyone to heaven,admitting
his own evil ambitions towards humanity.So its clear that the devil did not write the bible or take part in it in anyway
other than the things mentioned in the bible.
I hope i didnt forget anything.Give me a few days to analyze these verses.
Quote: There is also something called planning or preparing.I thought about the many outcomes of the one situation and I would still do what I said.You dont have to experience it to do what you have planned out weeks and even years before.The point is,once you set something as a positive goal,its hard not to follow through on it(for me,anyway).So again,if i was in the situation mentioned by you,I would do the things I told you I would do without regret.
There's a difference between a goal and a mere surprise incident in which no one can ever be prepared for (unless
you're paranoid, then you'd probably always have a weapon with you). Anyways, it's not a goal we're
talking about, it's a situation. Being taken hostage is like being in a car crash, once it happens, you can't
do that much about it. You're life sits in the hands of those that have taken you hostage, which is why you're
called a hostage... though a car crash is more random in terms of damage, the surprise is still the same. Plus, if
you're a hostage, chances are, you will be addled.
?(/??)?
?? ???
????????
????????
I feel that a person's beliefs are their business, not mine.
page 4 of 6 « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next » 126 total items
Back to Religion & Science | Active Threads | Forum Index
Only members can post replies, please register.
