Prove to me that God exists... II.

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beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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Since apparently I'm too popular to be contained to one thread only, I am forced to make another on the same topic. For further and future reference on the matter, you can go back to this:

http://forum.minitokyo.net/t61575?page=1

And whip me as much as you'd like.

Let the masochism commence.

Tada.

PS:

To all those who think I'm being biased forever and ever:

Yes, deer, ah-ma seekin' for answers all right, but I'm seeking it my way. And, seriously, not one of ye has challenged my view.

Challenge me. C'mon. Gimme somethin' other than faith.

  • Feb 24, 2010
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i don't think anyone should prove to u

  • Mar 02, 2010
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i think i can, are you breathing? then, God exists, now prove me that time exists (ahhh even floooow thoughts arrive like butterflies )

  • Mar 13, 2010

samsomi

samsomi

baka kaizuko

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prove to me that you have a mind inside your head. and i will prove to you that god exist.
simple, very simple .. i think we create to Worship, not to live a 70 years or 60years and die, in order to go to heaven :)
huhh what a stupid Way to prove to some one should not having a brain.
what the heart and the mind belive, called love. but what the heart, the mind and the spirit belive..that is the Faith and certainty for god exist.
what do you think dear beyo?

luv anime & fun

samu02

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For a person who has a querying mind, you aren't looking for any answers. You believe you already have them and are doing this for enjoyment. It's like asking someone for advice and then quickly dismissing it as useless. It is deeply aggravating. You are not looking for proof. You are looking for a fight. You enjoy a battle of wits and whatnot with people whose views you do not share.

No one will be able to let you do anything (changing your perspective is among one of them) if you do not let them. And as far as I can see, you have your belief that there is no God set in stone.

Oh, and Christendom does not equal Catholic Church. Dominance in religion does not make it the right religion. The teachings of a majority does not make it right. You of all people should know that.

"If faced with a life or death situation, an average person would choose life; a hero also chooses life, just not for himself"
"Knowledge is Power. But Power unused accomplishes nothing"
[CENTER][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

  • Mar 17, 2010

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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Quote by samu02For a person who has a querying mind, you aren't looking for any answers. You believe you already have them and are doing this for enjoyment. It's like asking someone for advice and then quickly dismissing it as useless. It is deeply aggravating. You are not looking for proof. You are looking for a fight. You enjoy a battle of wits and whatnot with people whose views you do not share.

No one will be able to let you do anything (changing your perspective is among one of them) if you do not let them. And as far as I can see, you have your belief that there is no God set in stone.

Oh, and Christendom does not equal Catholic Church. Dominance in religion does not make it the right religion. The teachings of a majority does not make it right. You of all people should know that.

That, and the proof. I admit it. A battle of wits while grasping for the truth. It's like looking for a fighter who can send me stumbling down into the abyss. It is DEEPLY AGGRAVATING - I know that from experience - but bear with me. Can't I have it both ways - being funny, or at least being witty while searching for anything that might shake mine viewpoint? After all, the title itself announces that I do have my own thoughts posting this, and while I do not seek to impose my views upon anyone else, I still could dismiss viewpoints that do more to stymie progress than to help such.

merged: 03-19-2010 ~ 02:00am

Quote by Maddocki think i can, are you breathing? then, God exists, now prove me that time exists (ahhh even floooow thoughts arrive like butterflies )

Am I breathing? Let us limit this to the human experience, inasmuch as I do not know if other mammals breathe the same way as we do - and pull your nose up your finger.

+ cheap gag finished... +

Proving that you are breathing, or that you have a brain inside your head, for instances (yes, samsoni), doesn't require ye to posit indirect evidence - evidence of the sort that any witty musician would comment onto (if you have Mozart to listen to, why would ye need God?).

It is quite the other way around with God.

  • Mar 19, 2010

samsomi

samsomi

baka kaizuko

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what i meant by saying "brain inside your head" is ..
not everything you see always exist. and there is alot of thing that you can't see but it's still exist.
like anime, u see it but u can't feel it not really. like the air, u feel it but you can't see it.
the point is there is a god! at least thats what i belive. and like you i have the Freedom by choosing what i believe in.

I appreciate you brought this topic here. This means that you have questions. And you need answers. I hope that days will guided u to the right path.
Remember.. i didn't meant any offence by my words

luv anime & fun

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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Quote by samsomiwhat i meant by saying "brain inside your head" is ..
not everything you see always exist. and there is alot of thing that you can't see but it's still exist.
like anime, u see it but u can't feel it not really. like the air, u feel it but you can't see it.
the point is there is a god! at least thats what i belive. and like you i have the Freedom by choosing what i believe in.

I appreciate you brought this topic here. This means that you have questions. And you need answers. I hope that days will guided u to the right path.
Remember.. i didn't meant any offence by my words

Yes, I accept the latter (that there are things we cannot see but we know, by either direct or indirect inference, that they exist nevertheless). But there are things that we know that exist by direct inferences (for instance, the wind or the brain or atoms), and there are things that we know that exist by indirect inferences (the soul, divine beings). Reason cautions us from hastily believing things that appear to exist by indirect inferences (or at least I read from a few philosophers).

If there be any wrong with this argument, lemme see.

  • Mar 19, 2010
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Quote by samsomiwhat i meant by saying "brain inside your head" is ..
not everything you see always exist. and there is alot of thing that you can't see but it's still exist.
like anime, u see it but u can't feel it not really. like the air, u feel it but you can't see it.
the point is there is a god! at least thats what i belive. and like you i have the Freedom by choosing what i believe in.

that's what i meant since the beginning of this useless and stupid topic, are you breathing beyond? then, God make that possible, like samsoni said, is what we believe in.

  • Mar 19, 2010
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Most people looking for answers as to Gods existence are searching for something to fill a void within. People who have chosen to believe do so out of faith and faith alone. If you are truly wanting answers you must turn to the Holy Bible. Because as stated in Matthew 12:39 when Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. (You all can look up the rest of the message on your own).
You can not expect to get the answers as to Gods existence by arguing. You must seek Him out in order to find the truth.
All believers know He exists because they were not looking for physical signs. They were truly seeking Him and He revealed himself to us. People can not prove to another that God exists. All believers can do is share the good news of his existence and pray that those who are seeking the truth will find it. It takes faith, and a true desire to throw out all secular/worldly junk and come to realize that there is something greater out there than us. All we have to do is seek it and it will be revealed to us. This is just another promise of Jesus in Luke 11:9 -13. If you truly want to know about God leave this forum behind and go to His ever living Word, the Holy Bible. Read it for yourself and don't leave it up to some religious leader some place to tell you about it. READ IT FOR YOURSELF! the answers that all who are commenting on this forum are looking for are in the Bible. Read it, study it, and truly seek God and you will see for your self, He does exist.

A prayer for all who love Anime

Dear Heavenly Father, The world we live in is once again seeking a sign as to your existence, we who believe you and desire to know you better, pray for those who do not know you, and that you fill their hearts with the desire to seek after you and to learn to love you as I have learned. Dear precious Heavenly Father we pray for this fallen world that you will once again have mercy on us and we turn from our evil ways and come back to you with open arms, and that those who do continue to believe in you, Lord, that you may give us the strength to continue to pass on your Gospel so that all may someday believe. We ask this in your precious son's name Jesus Christ.
Amen

  • Mar 20, 2010

samsomi

samsomi

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Last divine books is the Holy Quran ... And the last religion revealed and seal of all religions is .. Islam .. and the last prophet, a Seal of all the Prophets, Muhammad peace be upon him .. The most prevalent religions .. Islam .. and they all worship God and believe it. And the Quran was revealed to be guided to all people. we never heard by any muslim that he become Heretic..all of them have knew what is the Truth. and you should too..
search for accurate information. don't believe everything you see ..or hear.

luv anime & fun

zerohime

zerohime

Drowning in Grimmjow Blue

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I feel no one has to prove God exists or doesn't exist to you. That's just stupid. You should see what YOU believe in. Not rely on someone else's opinion. I personally think it's BULL... God? Exist? What, he's actually sitting somewhere taking care (or NOT) of every single person of 6 billion people on the planet? Come on, it's like Santa Claus, damn it....
But hey, I'm a neo-pagan. So my believes would go beyond just one God. :p

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beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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Most people looking for answers as to Gods existence are searching for something to fill a void within. People who have chosen to believe do so out of faith and faith alone. If you are truly wanting answers you must turn to the Holy Bible. Because as stated in Matthew 12:39 when Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. (You all can look up the rest of the message on your own).

Fill a void within? I cut mine self off from the religion of mine foremothers (I was a Roman Catholic, I am) eons ago. I'm comfortable with my status. The only things lacking are girls (a transient affair, but still) and a proper job, but I don't desire them that much. But I digress.

You say that to believe, we must turn to scripture - whatever that is - read, suspend all query and doubt, and profess faith in whatever deity you've been goaded to look into. Which makes me queasy, for reasons that need no elucidating. Really.

All believers know He exists because they were not looking for physical signs. They were truly seeking Him and He revealed himself to us. People cannot prove to another that God exists. All believers can do is share the good news of his existence and pray that those who are seeking the truth will find it. It takes faith, and a true desire to throw out all secular/worldly junk and come to realize that there is something greater out there than us. All we have to do is seek it and it will be revealed to us.

Yet in every religion, there is a catch to that generosity: if by chance you accepted the wrong deity into your heart, or accepted none at all - you go down into everlasting fire to roast there forever, all in the account of us knowing too little, and he loving us too much.

That I say, among all the other tipsy possibilities with the multitude of gods there are. (I dare mention the dead, but I ditch Voltaire for the moment.)

Last divine books is the Holy Quran ... And the last religion revealed and seal of all religions is .. Islam .. and the last prophet, a Seal of all the Prophets, Muhammad peace be upon him .. The most prevalent religions .. Islam .. and they all worship God and believe it. And the Quran was revealed to be guided to all people. we never heard by any muslim that he become Heretic... all of them have knew what is the Truth. and you should too...

Let's just say I was about to type something by Lessing, but since I am such a poor recaller of pithy sayings, I reduce mine self to this: the possession of the Truth makes one proud and obstinate (last word mine).

And, about heretics, samsoni, if I read it right: Salman Rushdie and Ibn Warraq.

  • Mar 21, 2010
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beyondmeasure, quote: Fill a void within? I cut mine self off from the religion of mine foremothers (I was a Roman Catholic, I am) eons ago. I'm comfortable with my status.

I hate to inform you of yourself, but if you were comfortable with your status you wouldn't have began a topic such as this. I have met countless Catholics (I married one) who have turned their back on religion; I have to give them an A+ for that decision along with anyone else who has given up on religion (no matter what title you put on it being an atheist is still a religion) the whole problem with this world is the total reliance on religion instead of the total reliance on God. Flush out the false images of your past and study the bible on your own! quit muddling up your soul with religion and turn your life over to God.

I read so many posts around the www. on this topic, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people get involved in conversations about God and say He doesn't exist. but yet have never one time picked up the Bible and read enough of it to have any intelligence as to where they base their beliefs on. They choose not to believe because of some crap they heard in a church somewhere but never pick up the bible to inform themselves of the truth. It also goes for people who, week after week, go to church and have no clue as to why they go, they say they believe but really have no clue what they believe in. they believe an image carved in a piece of wood in the shape of a man hanging on a cross? believe in a group of beads tied together with the same image dangling at the end of it? or the sacraments, that if they follow along, just might be the one way ticket to Heaven? What do people believe in? I'm not here to badmouth someone's beliefs but rather be an informant of the truth, to get people to think about why they believe what they believe.

People are so lazy when it comes to their study of Gods holy word yet so bold to make judgments as to what God is. Yet true Christians who have studied the Bible enough to know God are looked at as religious nuts for believing in a God that has revealed himself to us and asked to prove it by fools who are unwilling to do what it takes to learn the truth.

If you are not willing to do what it takes to learn about the topic that you obviously know nothing about you should at least keep quiet about it. I would venture to say(as a man with a masters degree in ancient world history and a M-Div degree) I have spent more time studying the bible and ancient world history than all the rest who have entered this forum combined. (just by reading all the responses)
My beliefs haven't come from some church some where, they have come from thousands of hours studying, not only the bible but world history, writings of Josephus, Philo, the copper plates of the Essene, Dead Sea Scrolls, and the list continues on to the archeological studies of Jewish culture, and countless other books. I know what I am talking about and in order for all of you to know the truth, you will have to do the studying on your own, because you will never believe the words of another person, you must learn the truth on your own. The message of God is just not believable to those who are unwilling to learn on their own. Sorry for the bad news but that is just the way it is. You must Read, Read, and Read some more if you are to learn the truth.

Others have chosen to believe in some scientific theories that are published as theories, I have read those books too, and still have to go back to my belief in God.

  • Mar 23, 2010

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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I hate to inform you of yourself, but if you were comfortable with your status you wouldn't have began a topic such as this.

I hate to inform ye that I am not Hegel, and you are not me. But let me inform ye of mine true intentions nevertheless: that in my first forays, I truly wanted to bash heads with others to find any weak spots in the arguments that I find about atheism. So it isn't as much as doubt as it is a diligent search for kinks in the theory. That, and I hoped then (and still hope now) that I could smoothen my discourses this way.

I read so many posts around the www. on this topic, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people get involved in conversations about God and say He doesn't exist. but yet have never one time picked up the Bible and read enough of it to have any intelligence as to where they base their beliefs on... People are so lazy when it comes to their study of God's holy word yet so bold to make judgments as to what God is.

You are not alone in that opinion, my deer. Both sides need be counted on this one - believers and unbelievers both, which is such a dismay for (well, I am the one talking here) I like knowing my enemies (in the biblical sense if need be). Needless to say, I read the Bible, but choose not to spin the good parts and shit on the bad.

Yet true Christians who have studied the Bible enough to know God are looked at as religious nuts for believing in a God that has revealed himself to us and asked to prove it by fools who are unwilling to do what it takes to learn the truth.

Because they - as they believe every fucking word of it, and neglect to omit those that the rest of humanity would find reprehensible - have a tendency to, well, commit atrocities that no fornicator or masturbator would dare do, to paraphrase Hitchens (if imperfectly)? Look (to narrow our eyes at Christianity) at Calvin and his Geneva. Look at the Jews and the Roma through the centuries, till the Final Solution. Look at Calvin and his Geneva. Look at the history of slavery and segregation. Each and every one of the instigators of these atrocities called upon God to soak their hands in blood. These events may not prove that the Bible is evil, but at least these would prove that unflinching belief in a deity that is chronicled to command his people to do the crassest things is such.

(Well, a digression: if you in your studies choose to omit the book of Leviticus for whatever reason, you aren't Christian enough. Whatever that means.)

My beliefs haven't come from some church some where, they have come from thousands of hours studying, not only the bible but world history, writings of Josephus, Philo, the copper plates of the Essene, Dead Sea Scrolls, and the list continues on to the archeological studies of Jewish culture, and countless other books. I know what I am talking about and in order for all of you to know the truth, you will have to do the studying on your own, because you will never believe the words of another person, you must learn the truth on your own. The message of God is just not believable to those who are unwilling to learn on their own. Sorry for the bad news but that is just the way it is. You must Read, Read, and Read some more if you are to learn the truth.

Apparently I read, read, and read. My studies (if ye could call them that) have not been as far-ranging or as meticulous as yours (or at least you claim), but I do read, and read extensively so I can fire back to people like ye. But so you will at least put yourself at ease: I have tackled philosophy, world history, theology, the Bible, and the Q'uran (this through translations, especially the Syriac-Aramaic translation by Luxemburg). I am currently reading the deuterocanonicals and am dabbling on the Zohar when on the mood to read it (best served with Novalis, with a dash of Avila on the side).

And still I am so not into your truth.

P. S.: If you are wondering why I tackle these all, ask Joyce.

And, yeah, I'm a college dropout.

  • Mar 24, 2010
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yaah im also asking that only does there is somrone behind us who keeps us safe i dont think but if anyone cn plzz tell me that htere is someone do reply

  • Mar 26, 2010
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Your arguments are not very well thought out..
The terrorists who flew planes into buildings are murderers
They were not true Muslims and trying to put them into that same category is wrong
People have always twisted and distorted religion to suit there own barbarism
Normal religious people do not go out and murder people.
and what do you mean by this statement?
You do happen to know about the fightin' Irish? The war in Kosovo two decades since? The killings in Rwanda? The...
are you saying that religion caused it? That it influenced it?
And you cant prove God exists but you can never disprove of it

They told me that the ends Won't justify the means
They told me at the end Don't justify the dreams
That I've had since a child Maybe I'll throw in the towel
Make my (make my) Departure from the world Signature Image

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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You do happen to know about the fightin' Irish? The war in Kosovo two decades since? The killings in Rwanda? The...
are you saying that religion caused it? That it influenced it?

Yes, mah deer, yes. You are correct in saying that. Read the history of these struggles, mah deer, and find out about them. You will find out that religion was a primary factor in these skirmishes; and while you could argue that a man's interpretation of religion is to blame for these atrocities, the fact that a single text yields multiple interpretations should be enough to convince you that religion is nonetheless a source of significant evil.

The terrorists who flew planes into buildings are murderers
They were not true Muslims and trying to put them into that same category is wrong

You mean the nineteen? They are murderers, sure, as were the countless suicide bombers who preceded and succeeded them; but otherwise, they are indistinguishable from the rest of the flock who also profess to be Muslims. Do not delude yourself that they are not Muslims; the Q'uran is a wishy-washy text that cannot make up its mind. In their search of tighteousness for their Sustainer, they pray when they rise and when they toothmick and before they lump down on their leatherbed and in the night and at the fading of the stars - just as millions of less violent Muslims do. The difference lies in their credulity, their tendency to believe everything the Koran - or a man's interpretation of it, since you are sore upon this point - tells them, and to take things to the extreme when others blanched. I might venture to say that since they offered their lives for those raisins, they were even truer Muslims than those who didn't dare take that step, but I will.

Normal religious people do not go out and murder people.

Lemme quote Voltaire (as imperfectly as ever): Those who can make ye believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

  • Mar 29, 2010

Panncakez

Panncakez

Resident Yukiist

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Well, imagine that we're on this planet. This planet is positioned so perfectly in its orbit around its parent star, that its conditions are perfect to sustain life. Out of all the millions of places a planet could be created, that this planet could be created, it was created here. Why? Due to the distance it is from its parent star, it is neither too hot, nor too cold. Due to where it is, the larger planets in its system will attract any foreign objects and prevent them from reaching it. Life has evolved on this planet, and you and I are on it. This planet is Earth.

Now, tell me that doesn't seem like a coincidence?

  • Mar 29, 2010

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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Quote by PanncakezWell, imagine that we're on this planet. This planet is positioned so perfectly in its orbit around its parent star, that its conditions are perfect to sustain life. Out of all the millions of places a planet could be created, that this planet could be created, it was created here. Why? Due to the distance it is from its parent star, it is neither too hot, nor too cold. Due to where it is, the larger planets in its system will attract any foreign objects and prevent them from reaching it. Life has evolved on this planet, and you and I are on it. This planet is Earth.

Now, tell me that doesn't seem like a coincidence?

Gimme my Hume.

I'd believe that as being more plausible than it being created by a deity that claims to be uncreated (if we go by Aquinas).

  • Mar 29, 2010
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Imagine a world without religion. In the world we live in we separate the church from the government. But stil religion plays an important part in our social, economic and political life.

Your mind is already made up. Why did you start this topic if you know that you will never believe in any kind off religion. I'm 20 years old and probably dont have the knowledge that some of you have. I have to say that I dont believe in God. But I do believe in myself in my own way.

You aint looking for answers. Your trying to tell us we shouldn't believe in religion while its one off the most important pillars off our lives. We stand were we are now because off all the thing that happend years ago and religion was an important part off it.

  • Mar 29, 2010
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Well it seems to me that your mocking faith now..
you dont think religion is important? what about all those people who use religion as a tool for good
Take a look at the civil rights movement It originated from the Church.
weather or not you chose to believe in something is your prerogative but you should not mock religion.

They told me that the ends Won't justify the means
They told me at the end Don't justify the dreams
That I've had since a child Maybe I'll throw in the towel
Make my (make my) Departure from the world Signature Image

beyondmeasure

From the mind comes the query.

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Quote by SholowflyImagine a world without religion. In the world we live in we separate the church from the government. But stil religion plays an important part in our social, economic and political life.

Your mind is already made up. Why did you start this topic if you know that you will never believe in any kind off religion. I'm 20 years old and probably dont have the knowledge that some of you have. I have to say that I dont believe in God. But I do believe in myself in my own way.

You aint looking for answers. Your trying to tell us we shouldn't believe in religion while its one off the most important pillars off our lives. We stand were we are now because off all the thing that happend years ago and religion was an important part off it.

Yes, religion still plays an important part in our lives. With luck, we may see it diminished even further.

But anyway...

It is not true that I am not looking for answers. I am. It's just that what I see before me are fodder for lesser minds. Like your red herring here: it is very interesting that you bring up my bias, but in the end you have not brought up anything that might convince me in favor of religion or God or whatever.

merged: 04-01-2010 ~ 02:28pm

Quote by springheeljack298Well it seems to me that your mocking faith now..
you dont think religion is important? what about all those people who use religion as a tool for good
Take a look at the civil rights movement It originated from the Church.
weather or not you chose to believe in something is your prerogative but you should not mock religion.

The civil rights movement originated from the churches? You kidding?

Lemme remind ye that when Martin Luther King started his liberating journey, he was against the clergy's thoughts on race: most of them preached that black and white are not created to be mixed.

But that aside, why should I not mock religion? Gimme a good reason why I should exempt the pope from criticism due him, when I could criticise all other mortals.

  • Apr 01, 2010

kyubichan

kyubichan

Mobile Blackhole

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Well I don't know about God as in, the God of religion... but if you can't prove where the universe came from, then does that not in itself prove that a creator exists? Nothing comes from nothing after all.

I believe that religion was created because people who shared the same faith wanted to be together. Fellowship, so to speak, similar to how we form clubs and, lo and behold, have joined Minitokyo to share our common love for art. Things just got out of hand, as with everything else that has been abused: power, authority, etc.

Criticise religion all you want, but don't mock a person's personal faith. Faith is like any other abstract concept... love, hope, fear- all of those things. To mock a person's faith is to mock their right to believe in what they believe in, just like the way they let you believe in what you believe in. To mock a person's faith is like telling them not to love someone because you think it is so stupid, while you were never in their shoes to know how it felt like to begin with.

Because yes!

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