God's Power...

Can he?

Yes
18 votes
No
21 votes
Head explodes
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ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Could God become more powerful than himself? I posed this question before and I wanna know what you guys at the R&S forums think. What dost thou thinketh?

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

cyberfrogX

cyberfrogX

Malik-Aru

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This question is arbitrary if you are talking about God the Father, 'he' is a complete and perfect being in himself and therefore is static to himself, and ever-increasing in power from our perspective.
If you are talking about The Word, then yes. The Word has done so before and could do so again.

  • Jan 30, 2007
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No because an omnipotent being makes no sense.

  • Jan 31, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by cyberfrogXThis question is arbitrary if you are talking about God the Father, 'he' is a complete and perfect being in himself and therefore is static to himself, and ever-increasing in power from our perspective.
If you are talking about The Word, then yes. The Word has done so before and could do so again.

Your post makes no sense. What do you mean by the word static? The Word? What?

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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As alexjohnc3 stated, ominpotent being makes no sense XD. The fact that omnipotence makes everything all weirded out... whee paradoxes XD

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  • Jan 31, 2007
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Well, that's a question for believers. It wouldn't make sense to a non-believer.

If you're omnipotent, that's more that enough. That embraces everything. That means you wrote the laws of space and time, those that make the Universe grow and anchors the stars to galaxies, and electrons to leap from orbit to orbit.

Also, if God is infinite, means that He's outside time, and all the time, from the begining to the end, is unfolded for Him at once. It's quite dificult for us, who can only move in the present time, to imagine that. That's why it doesn't seen to "make sense".

But it doesn't mean there could be a being capable of such things. Imagine it as an artist staring at his own paint. It unfolds before his eyes at once. But an ant walking on the paint wouldn't see much of anything.

Someone asked before if God could make a rock he could not move. The answer for that is that God doesn't have to prove anything, even if that is what He does trougth all the Old Testament, and in everyday life, if you are a believer. But the point was, that if you're an artist, and someone asks you to make a draw without a paper, without pencils, carbon or pastels, without anything to draw on, well, that would be kind of stupid. None is gonna make it. And God is not going to make stupidities.

I think what cyberfrogX meant was "the inmovile motor of all things". He doesn't moves, but moves everything. I think Saint Tomas of Aquino wrote that. And for the "Word", he means Jesus, as described in the begining of St. John's Gospel.

  • Feb 02, 2007

boojitsu

boojitsu

Ninja In Training

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God is God, God does not become more than God (even if that were possible) because then God wouldn't be God.... Or even if God could become "More Powerful" it would still be....God...

-Boojitsu21

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by mireya2Someone asked before if God could make a rock he could not move.

It's not about proving anything. It's about asking questions concerning the nature of God. Here's one:
COULD GOD POSE A QUESTION THAT NOT EVEN HE COULD ANSWER?

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Were we to assume that God possesses absolute omnipotence, then we can also assume that he transcends laws of nature and logic as we humans percieve them. Thus God could, in theory, become more powerful than himself.

  • Feb 03, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by EspadaWere we to assume that God possesses absolute omnipotence, then we can also assume that he transcends laws of nature and logic as we humans percieve them. Thus God could, in theory, become more powerful than himself.

You do know what a paradox is right?

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

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how about this : God's power is beyond our understanding. all we KNOW is that he's VERY powerful. but then, we dunno what else God can do besides those powers used in the bible?

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Quote by ProgramZEROYou do know what a paradox is right?


Sorry, should have elaborated. The paradox (a statement/phenomena/event that contradicts itself in some way) in question exists only when considered through human logic. Because the Abrahamic God is supposedly a higher being with absolute omnipotence, our own laws of logic and such do not necessarily apply to him. For example, to us 1 + 1 = 2 , but God could in theory make 1 + 1 = 234245343 . Omnipotence means he can do ANYTHING, even if it seems paradoxical or impossible.

  • Feb 03, 2007
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Quote by ProgramZERO

Quote by mireya2Someone asked before if God could make a rock he could not move.

It's not about proving anything. It's about asking questions concerning the nature of God. Here's one:
COULD GOD POSE A QUESTION THAT NOT EVEN HE COULD ANSWER?

Simply, no. God cannot pose to himself a question which He cannot answer because he is omniscient. It would be contradictory to His nature for there to be such a question, thus, He cannot create one.

  • Feb 05, 2007
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Quote: Simply, no. God cannot pose to himself a question which He cannot answer because he is omniscient. It would be contradictory to His nature for there to be such a question, thus, He cannot create one.


This is why I said, whee paradoxes... >.<. If he is omnipotent, then he can create anything, else he is not omnipotent and that means the whole idea of god being omnipotent goes down the drain.

Quote: Sorry, should have elaborated. The paradox (a statement/phenomena/event that contradicts itself in some way) in question exists only when considered through human logic. Because the Abrahamic God is supposedly a higher being with absolute omnipotence, our own laws of logic and such do not necessarily apply to him. For example, to us 1 + 1 = 2 , but God could in theory make 1 + 1 = 234245343 . Omnipotence means he can do ANYTHING, even if it seems paradoxical or impossible.


Lets put it this way, if god is omnipotent, then he can do anything correct? If so, then why call him omnipotent? If he "can" do anything even if it seems as a paradox, that places the fact that he can make rocks that he can't carry... correct?

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  • Feb 05, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by Espada

Quote by ProgramZEROYou do know what a paradox is right?


Sorry, should have elaborated. The paradox (a statement/phenomena/event that contradicts itself in some way) in question exists only when considered through human logic. Because the Abrahamic God is supposedly a higher being with absolute omnipotence, our own laws of logic and such do not necessarily apply to him. For example, to us 1 + 1 = 2 , but God could in theory make 1 + 1 = 234245343 . Omnipotence means he can do ANYTHING, even if it seems paradoxical or impossible.

No he couldn't, 1+1=2. You put one rock next to another, I don't care who you are, that'll make two rocks.

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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Quote by ProgramZERO

Quote by Espada

Quote by Pro(...) do know what a paradox is right?[/quote
Sorry, should have elaborated. The paradox (a statement/phenomena/event that contradicts itself in some way) in question exists only when considered through human logic. Because the Abrahamic God is supposedly a higher being with absolute omnipotence, our own laws of logic and such do not necessarily apply to him. For example, to us 1 + 1 = 2 , but God could in theory make 1 + 1 = 234245343 . Omnipotence means he can do ANYTHING, even if it seems paradoxical or impossible.

No he couldn't, 1+1=2. You put one rock next to another, I don't care who you are, that'll make two rocks.

then you take a hammer and smash one rock into 234245342 rocks
:D

  • Feb 05, 2007

sukumei

sukumei

Running A Critiquing Service

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god is a deity and hard to even notice the limits of his power let alone a little sample of it. Look, he can make humans, and he made yoda so therefore god is not a being to be TRIFLED WITH

I would like to run a friendly critiquing service for Minitokyo artists. I will try to make my opinions professional and defiantly unbiased although i will speak ideas for the general public. Critiquing service MT thread

  • Feb 05, 2007

ttwen

ttwen

somebody

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Quote by DarkRoseofHellThis is why I said, whee paradoxes... >.<. If he is omnipotent, then he can create anything, else he is not omnipotent and that means the whole idea of god being omnipotent goes down the drain.

this rock question is the same as :
a cretean saying all creteans lie, or:
a man standing behind a tree at sunset, with the tree facing the sun: is he's shadow covered by the tree's shadow? or he has no shadow at all?

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If God is an Omnipotent being there would be no question that He doesn't know the answer to. Sure He
could create the question but he would know the answer as soon as he composed it.
It's just like a child trying to find their favorite color- they don't know the answer until they've made up their mind for the hundretdth time.(Not comparing God to a child)
As an omnipotent being, God would have the keys to the universe.From this approach, the aspect of a question doesn't exist because he could change the world to fit whatever answer he chose.

Just like above, the statement about the rocks,
an6yone above eighth grade knows 2^2=4.
If God says, that expression could become 2^2=123122 and it would make sense to you, just like the example of the ant in the redpaint. Any decision made by an all-powerfull God such as pushing his brush to the left clearing a path for the ant or drowning it would bend your reality to his will.

  • Feb 06, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by NikkleIf God is an Omnipotent being there would be no question that He doesn't know the answer to. Sure He
could create the question but he would know the answer as soon as he composed it.

I'm asking if he could come up with a question that even he could not answer EVER!

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

Blueheart

Blueheart

Wapy's sister

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god's powers are infinite, so He can't become more powerful because he is the power himself

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Yuzupt

Yuzupt

Hopeful

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If God is more powerfull than you, if fate controls everything on your life
You wouldn't have guilty for your acts, you couldn't be congratulate because fate commandes you
You own your on life, you are free to choise you just aren't free to not choise
Believe in yourself you command your life

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Quote: this rock question is the same as :
a cretean saying all creteans lie, or:
a man standing behind a tree at sunset, with the tree facing the sun: is he's shadow covered by the tree's shadow? or he has no shadow at all?


You know, these statements have nothing to do with omnipotence and it creates no paradoxes. A cretean saying all creteans lie does not create a paradox, rather it's just the cretean insulting itself. If a man is covered by a tree's shadow, in order to have shadow there must be light.

Quote: If God is more powerfull than you, if fate controls everything on your life
You wouldn't have guilty for your acts, you couldn't be congratulate because fate commandes you
You own your on life, you are free to choise you just aren't free to not choise
Believe in yourself you command your life


Was this spam? It really doesn't seem to align with this thread.

Quote: god's powers are infinite, so He can't become more powerful because he is the power himself


You just stated a paradox...

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  • Feb 07, 2007

ProgramZERO

ProgramZERO

The Lost Generation

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Quote by Blueheartgod's powers are infinite, so He can't become more powerful because he is the power himself

So if he can't become more powerful than himself, is his power truly infinite?

Sleeping peacefully on the edges of No Man's Land... Not all good is rewarded, not all evil is punished.

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